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Author Topic: [absolved] Recalescence Coins being black mailed for #1 coin  (Read 1519 times)
Hexadecibel
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August 19, 2013, 03:26:18 PM
 #1

Ok, so here's an email I got from one of my first customers. Obviously there is some misunderstandings contain herein where I think I should address point by point.


Dustin,



Are you sitting down?

yes.

Your financials are completely transparent, and I know that of the 16 coins that have been funded you funded 12 of them yourself, and began shipping starting with the serial #18, despite the fact that there are lower serials unfunded.

I know they're completely transparent, thats kinida the point. if coins are unfunded it means one of three things:

The coin is reserved as payment for a developer, artist, etc for helping me get the business off the ground or,

It is an international order, which are not loaded until arrival. This is to protect myself and the customer incase it is lost or damaged in shipping, as then I would just be eating the cost of the silver and could refund the customer, or,

I screwed up placing the hologram. In which case it will never be funded. We will be posting a data table this week detailing those coins.


Let alone the fact that you did not begin shipping from serial #1, this is enough to compromise the posterity of your product. Given the above, I would not value a Recalesence Coin above 1.1945 BTC, that is 1 BTC + the cost of 1 oz silver in Bitcoin.

I offered my coins on a first come first serve basis. The #1 coin has gone to my grandfather who is not long for this world. On his death I have not decided whether to give it to my dad, or auction it off to a charity.


Given that I am the only one to receive a coin at this point, I’m about to offer you my consultation services with the sole intent of disaster mitigation and recovery. Should you decline my offer, and otherwise neglect to take the steps necessary to fix your product, I will publicly provide the information and direction necessary for a potential customer to determine that you have grossly misrepresented the product that you are selling. As a consumer and proponent of Bitcoin, it’s my obligation to make this information public so long as you continue selling and shipping these coins as is.

I am glad you have recieved your coin, but I am in no need of your "consultation services". I'm making the information as public as possible, as I have nothing to  hide, and where I can improve, I am only too willing to get advice in.

As stated previously, I am offering you my consultation services with the sole intent of disaster mitigation and recovery. Since I’m the only one who has a coin and I’m the only one who has identified this issue there is still an opportunity to fix the product before refunds need to be issued, and silver liquidated. I am doing this because I would rather see a business succeed than to watch a man's name tarnish.

I would like to believe that

Disaster mitigation covers the following:

This email.

mmm k

Services already rendered in analysis of blockchain and PGP signatures.

go on...

Services already rendered in identifying a problem that reduces a Recalesence Coins value by ~0.5 BTC.

I'm listening

Direction on how to move forward. (THE FIRST HINT IS DO NOT LET THOSE 4 COINS SHIP TODAY! ), spin the problem into something the forums will eat up.

uh huh

Critical items that must be done now to protect your company during the recovery phase.



Recovery covers the following:

Streamline the serialization process

its working exactly as intended

Advisement on address management to keep company’s financials out of the public eye.

I want the financials IN the public eye.

Assist in gaining public trust via transparency.

I think I'm doing pretty good on that front.

Prioritizing organization, to get back on your feet as soon as possible, with scalable growth in mind.







What are my qualifications? We can start with the fact that I’m effectively calling you out on fraud based on analysis of the blockchain and some PGP signatures. Here’s some other information I gathered.



Coins 3 (I know that was the demonstration one), 9, 10, 14, 16, 19, 20, and 22 have not yet been funded.

that is because of the above. either reserved (16 actually is the only one reserved) or I screwed up the hologram placement in which case they will never be funded.

Coin 24 was very likely the last one sold/funded.

I think that is correct. the others are international orders, though I do have some USA orders to pack and ship and fund later today.

Of the 16 coins that have been funded 12 of them were funded by you.

that is exactly right

The 12 coins funded by you were funded in this order: 15, 17, 13, 12, 11, 7, 8, 5, 6, 4, 1, and 2.

ok

The first coin purchased was mine - the coin being funded at 5:38:32 August 14 2013.

yup

3 more coins, #21, 23, and 24, were funded Saturday between 17:45:14 and 17:46:43, however these were from orders.

One of the orders with the deposit address 1PoEKaEzYn9ZfdUEPoxRwboap6adnV8ux5 ordered 2 coins, but I don't know which one you're shipping him. Doesn't look you funded a new coin for the occasion.

International order, as stated for reasons above. Also, on large international purchases we save TONS of hassel in customs where the value of the product being shipped really comes  into play with regulation and such.

Following is the order in which you funded coins that actually correspond to orders: 18, 21, 23, 24.

You signed 498 PGP messages between 8/4/2013 22:54:31 and 8/4/2013 22:56:28.

Serials #1 and 2 were signed on 8/12/2013 18:40:33 and 8/12/2013 18:41:36 respectively. 8 days after the initial batch of 498.

This address, 1HW8kKXk8ABMnDKwURSM8X6hWYZ4kmiTcX, is where you're keeping your revenue from this project.

That is correct

I'm assuming this address, 1FX2FSujA3sLKsjHrkVN6kZ1NvUkzNxwPo, is for the next batch of Silver?

That’s the best resume I can give on short notice.

You've done a good job


This is what I’m asking in return for my consultation services:

Coin #1, as it should have been sent to me in the first place.

Sorry, no, that belongs to my grandfather.

5 BTC immediately as confirmation and acceptance of services

Also no.

4 BTC as progress payment at the end of disaster mitigation phase (that would be due this evening)

The no continues

1 BTC held as retention until coins are put back up for sale.

no

Payable here:



15YVnvaw6PXUhXzr6ndEewyNbCmAFEfDwZ

still no


The price is reasonable considering services already rendered. The risk is liquidation of silver, and any chance of recouping manufacturing costs.



This is not a threat. I am in no way shape or form leveraging my knowledge to get Bitcoin from you. The circumstances under which I will make this information public is if you do not fix the product, and continue to sell or ship the product.







Good luck,



Dillon Bigglesworth



It certainly sounds like a threat, although In the case that I am wrong, I want to applaud you in your dedication and detective work. Scams are all over the place in Bitcoin land and I am happy that there would be those that would take the time and effort to weasel them out

However, I think this is at best a misunderstanding, the fault of which is attributed to me. I will take the necessary steps myself to correct them.

At worst, this is a thinly vailed ransome note. In which case, I want you to look at the back of your coin, read the words at the bottom and how they relate to bitcoin, and know that they relate just as much to me.




below is my orginal email to Mr. Bigglesworth
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:58 AM, <dustinmfree@recalescencecoins.com> wrote:

Hi mr. Bigglesworth,

By now you should have received your coin, and I would be very grateful for any feed back you could give us as to its condition on arrival.

Thank you for purchasing from us. I hope you put that coin to good use on display, and as a conversation piece when discussing Bitcoin.

Cheers,

Dustin Freeman
Recalescence Coins, LLC

-----------------------------------


The name of the customer has been altered to protect him/her.

I am not perfect. The way I run my business is not perfect. But I am dedicated to making it better. I am dedicated to my customers and Bitcoin. For those willing, I really do value your input. Please use our contact page on the website or respond to this thread and I will answer it as soon as possible.

-Dustin Freeman

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August 19, 2013, 04:55:19 PM
 #2

Well handled. You didn't try to come up with some lame excuse and acknowledge all the facts.
Props to the guy for doing his research. But the blackmailing and demand of pay for his "consulting" is lame!

Keeping your business transparent and playing with open cards, will profit you in the end.

Hope you succeed well with your business.
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August 19, 2013, 05:12:25 PM
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Well handled. You didn't try to come up with some lame excuse and acknowledge all the facts.
Props to the guy for doing his research. But the blackmailing and demand of pay for his "consulting" is lame!

Keeping your business transparent and playing with open cards, will profit you in the end.

Hope you succeed well with your business.

Thank you!

I want to be as transparent as possible. I will address some things here more officially on the website, for instance, why coins 1 and 2 were signed at different times.

I had generated the address seperately from the main batch so I could get #1 to my grandfather ASAP, and another person who paid for it WELL in advance of the site even being up.

at that time I had no way of generating the signed addresses efficiently, and once we created the batch script to do so, the 1 and 2 addresses were deleted from the database and replaced with the addresses I previously generated for those individuals.

that code that automates gpg signatures is being refined and we plan on releasing it via GPL of some kind for the benefit of the users.

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August 19, 2013, 08:33:42 PM
 #4

Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

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August 19, 2013, 08:40:36 PM
 #5

Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

Which is not the case, if I understand your meaning.

What exactly do you mean, as I think that term does not apply here.

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August 19, 2013, 08:52:46 PM
 #6

Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

Which is not the case, if I understand your meaning.

What exactly do you mean, as I think that term does not apply here.

I think it is the case. You've admitted so yourself that you gave some coins to people you know/owed money. Did you do that with the understanding that the coins will be worth more than the price you are currently selling at? You must have realised that if your coins take off the first few will be worth a lot more because they will be rarer than the others.

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August 19, 2013, 09:09:03 PM
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Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

Which is not the case, if I understand your meaning.

What exactly do you mean, as I think that term does not apply here.

I think it is the case. You've admitted so yourself that you gave some coins to people you know/owed money. Did you do that expecting the coins to be worth more than the price you are currently selling at? You must have realised that if your coins take off the first few will be worth a lot more because they will be rarer than the others.

Ah I see. I'm only familiar with the term "premined" in the sense of the alt-chains and the way they distribute coins. I didn't think it applied here because I haven't "mined" anything, and am loading the coins with BTC.

In reality the only coins I have reserved are 16, and 42 come to think of it. For a developer and artist respectively.

Those funds came will come directly from my "profits" or my personal stash and in the case of coin #42, that individual was going to load it with his own BTC, which now I guess it would be best if I just loaded it from a gpg signed address.


All of the rest of the low numbered coins were either faulty due to bad hologram placement, or bought up fairly by individuals I knew, who bought at full price. which is in line with my first come first serve policy.

edit: All told I'm in the hole more than 250BTC in the creation of this company and its associated costs. And thats fine, I started this with the realization that I would likely never see those BTC again. But I've created a coin that I personally love, that was worth every bit cent. I knew the low numbered coins would be worth more if they were popular, but I didn't start out thinking or expecting this was going to be a resounding success.

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August 19, 2013, 09:40:44 PM
 #8

My funds were just confirmed in your address.

Looking forward to receiving it.

This is me. You can reference the post to funds deposited, and the coin being funded an hour after.

Frankly, if this were blackmail I would not have stayed up all night following my hunch so that I could get this email to you before you had a chance to send more coins.

If it were blackmail I would have waited until more coins were shipped, when the risk would have been significantly greater to OP.

And finally, if it were blackmail I would have gotten the blackmailing done without ever purchasing a coin.

Though I appreciate you taking this opportunity to make this ordeal something positive for yourself and your company, I can't help but think that I've been lied to and cheated.

I knew that I would be one of, if not the first people to buy a coin. So I took a chance.

"Q. Why isn’t the Bitcoin address of my coin on the hologram?
A. We wanted to serialize each coin as it was sold in numerical order of their purchase on a first come, first serve basis."

-https://recalescencecoins.com/faq/

In no way does Recalescence indicate that if I am person who has purchased the first coin that I will not receive the first coin.

The first coin purchased was mine - the coin being funded at 5:38:32 August 14 2013.

yup

In no way has Recalescence indicated that coins that have not been purchased have been reserved for his own personal use or choice of distribution.

Given that the serialization is what provides valuation to Recalescence coins above 1 BTC + 1 oz silver, Recalescence has reserved the first 13 (the first 12 funded, and #16 being "reserved") most valuable coins for his own personal use or choice of distribution.

It certainly sounds like a threat, although In the case that I am wrong, I want to applaud you in your dedication and detective work. Scams are all over the place in Bitcoin land and I am happy that there would be those that would take the time and effort to weasel them out

You seem to think that you are exempt from the possibility of scamming your customers. Your negligence in decent business practices is undermining the value of your product at a rate of ~0.5 BTC/coin.

However, I think this is at best a misunderstanding, the fault of which is attributed to me. I will take the necessary steps myself to correct them.

It seems more like you are using this opportunity to discredit me by patronizing every other line in my email, and draw attention away from yourself by accusing me of blackmail. There is no misunderstanding - this is just you taking advantage of the fact that I intentionally gave you warning before this information goes public. This is your playing field.

This is your playing field, and you have yet to identify what the misunderstandings are, and how you plan to correct them.

It certainly sounds like a threat, although In the case that I am wrong, I want to applaud you in your dedication and detective work. Scams are all over the place in Bitcoin land and I am happy that there would be those that would take the time and effort to weasel them out

However, I think this is at best a misunderstanding, the fault of which is attributed to me. I will take the necessary steps myself to correct them.

At worst, this is a thinly vailed ransome note. In which case, I want you to look at the back of your coin, read the words at the bottom and how they relate to bitcoin, and know that they relate just as much to me.

Your rhetoric is good, but come on, stand by your product.

At best, this is negligence, and at worst fraud. At the very minimum the product you receive is not the one that you purchased.

Recalescence Coins, LLC is committing fraud by distributing the 13 most valuable coins at the discretion of Recalescence Coins, LLC instead of the order in which they were purchased. Recalescence Coins, LLC has not indicated that any action will be made to correct this.

I would like to believe that

I offered my help in what could be a turning point for your company. Considering the time already invested, and the time I'd expect to spend, this is a reasonable amount to request.

I'm offended that you have publicly defamed my identity without reasonable evidence to back up your claims. I am shocked that you are accusing me of blackmail for that which should be rightfully mine.

You are paying a ~0.5 BTC premium on Recalescence coins until the following takes place:

  • Refunds issued for all coins sold equal to the difference between the price paid for the coin and 1.0 BTC + 1 oz silver in BTC.
  • Re-serialization of all coins, PGP signed to indicate this is the re-serialization, and therefore valid.
  • Transparency concerning the coin that will be received when a coin is purchased.

I am bitter that I took a risk in being your first customer and you treated me like the 18th. I'm pissed off that I paid a ~0.5 BTC premium on an ounce of silver. I'm frustrated that your choices make me feel obligated to address this problem with your product. I'm astounded that when I try to offer help, and request that which is rightfully mine, I'm accused of blackmail.
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August 19, 2013, 09:47:45 PM
 #9

Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

Which is not the case, if I understand your meaning.

What exactly do you mean, as I think that term does not apply here.

I think it is the case. You've admitted so yourself that you gave some coins to people you know/owed money. Did you do that with the understanding that the coins will be worth more than the price you are currently selling at? You must have realised that if your coins take off the first few will be worth a lot more because they will be rarer than the others.

Nice choice of words, I didn't relate it to pre-mining, but that's exactly it.
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August 19, 2013, 09:53:33 PM
 #10

Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

Which is not the case, if I understand your meaning.

What exactly do you mean, as I think that term does not apply here.

I think it is the case. You've admitted so yourself that you gave some coins to people you know/owed money. Did you do that with the understanding that the coins will be worth more than the price you are currently selling at? You must have realised that if your coins take off the first few will be worth a lot more because they will be rarer than the others.

Nice choice of words, I didn't relate it to pre-mining, but that's exactly it.

Quote
I am bitterthat I took a risk in being your first customer and you treated me like the 18th. I'm pissed off that I paid a ~0.5 BTC premium on an ounce of silver. I'm frustrated that your choices make me feel obligated to address this problem with your product. I'm astounded that when I try to offer help, and request that which is rightfully mine, I'm accused of blackmail.

You were the 18th customer. or at least, the 17th. You were the first online customer, and plenty of people would be thrilled to get #18. Only #1, #16 and #42 were litterally reserved, with #1 being auctioned to a chartiy at a future date.

 Listen, if you are that unhappy you can send the coin back, and I will give you a full refund plus the cost of shipping.

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August 19, 2013, 10:05:21 PM
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Quote
publicly defamed my identity without reasonable evidence to back up your claims. I am shocked that you are accusing me of blackmail for that which should be rightfully mine.


I had protected your identity, in fact, I still protect it. You are bitter, you say so yourself. I'm sorry you didn't get a lower number, people beat you to them.

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August 19, 2013, 10:09:37 PM
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Your rhetoric is good, but come on, stand by your product.

At best, this is negligence, and at worst fraud. At the very minimum the product you receive is not the one that you purchased.

Recalescence Coins, LLC is committing fraud by distributing the 13 most valuable coins at the discretion of Recalescence Coins, LLC instead of the order in which they were purchased. Recalescence Coins, LLC has not indicated that any action will be made to correct this.

I would like to believe that

I offered my help in what could be a turning point for your company. Considering the time already invested, and the time I'd expect to spend, this is a reasonable amount to request.

I'm offended that you have publicly defamed my identity without reasonable evidence to back up your claims. I am shocked that you are accusing me of blackmail for that which should be rightfully mine.

You are paying a ~0.5 BTC premium on Recalescence coins until the following takes place:

  • Refunds issued for all coins sold equal to the difference between the price paid for the coin and 1.0 BTC + 1 oz silver in BTC.
  • Re-serialization of all coins, PGP signed to indicate this is the re-serialization, and therefore valid.
  • Transparency concerning the coin that will be received when a coin is purchased.

I am bitter that I took a risk in being your first customer and you treated me like the 18th. I'm pissed off that I paid a ~0.5 BTC premium on an ounce of silver. I'm frustrated that your choices make me feel obligated to address this problem with your product. I'm astounded that when I try to offer help, and request that which is rightfully mine, I'm accused of blackmail.

You paid a premium for a physical coin and the work put into it besides the silver value.
You were not promised coin #1 in any way that I can see.

This would all be ok if you just asked for a refund but you didn't.   You threatened and attempted to extort no how carefully you worded it.  

casascius
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August 19, 2013, 10:20:32 PM
 #13

If I had received that message, I'd have offered a refund and left it at that.  I probably wouldn't have posted it in the forums.

If it turns out that I kept some of the first 15 of any physical coin I've ever released, I'm not sure anyone would have a problem with that.  As it turns out, I would expect the right to do that.  That would be me wanting to keep a sample of my work product for my own portfolio so I can collect it and enjoy it just like everybody else, and not to commit some sort of "fraud".

I don't think of my own coins the way others do.  If I have 15 series 1 coins, and they're selling for $499 on eBay, I don't "think" I have "$7500" worth of Casascius Coins, as I think it would be self-defeating to represent my own coins as having that value.  That's not my job.  In other words if I were selling them myself on eBay at $499 a pop, to maximize my own personal profit as a primary motivator, I think that would be rightfully seen as a bit disingenuous.  My privilege is to sell new coins at a decent markup and have willing buyers.  But if I keep 15 of the originals because I like to look at them with pride, or to gift them to someone who hopefully will cherish it rather than liquidate it to the highest bidder, someone telling me that to do so is wrong is lucky to even get a reply from me.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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August 19, 2013, 10:45:34 PM
 #14

If I had received that message, I'd have offered a refund and left it at that.  I probably wouldn't have posted it in the forums.

Cutting our teeth sir.

Quote
..But if I keep 15 of the originals because I like to look at them with pride, or to gift them to someone who hopefully will cherish it rather than liquidate it to the highest bidder, someone telling me that to do so is wrong is lucky to even get a reply from me.

Exactly. But in my case they were bought at full price. Don't expect those coins below 18 to pop up on ebay anytime soon... well, maybe #1...


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August 19, 2013, 10:56:30 PM
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Amazing. So basically he's saying the OP premined his coins.

Which is not the case, if I understand your meaning.

What exactly do you mean, as I think that term does not apply here.

I think it is the case. You've admitted so yourself that you gave some coins to people you know/owed money. Did you do that with the understanding that the coins will be worth more than the price you are currently selling at? You must have realised that if your coins take off the first few will be worth a lot more because they will be rarer than the others.

Nice choice of words, I didn't relate it to pre-mining, but that's exactly it.

Quote
I am bitterthat I took a risk in being your first customer and you treated me like the 18th. I'm pissed off that I paid a ~0.5 BTC premium on an ounce of silver. I'm frustrated that your choices make me feel obligated to address this problem with your product. I'm astounded that when I try to offer help, and request that which is rightfully mine, I'm accused of blackmail.

You were the 18th customer. or at least, the 17th. You were the first online customer, and plenty of people would be thrilled to get #18. Only #1, #16 and #42 were litterally reserved, with #1 being auctioned to a chartiy at a future date.

 Listen, if you are that unhappy you can send the coin back, and I will give you a full refund plus the cost of shipping.

Coins 3 (I know that was the demonstration one), 9, 10, 14, 16, 19, 20, and 22 have not yet been funded.

that is because of the above. either reserved (16 actually is the only one reserved) or I screwed up the hologram placement in which case they will never be funded.


That would make me the 12th customer, assuming #1 was not given away, not purchased.

The 11 coins that were purchased before me were all funded from your address 15DLxwkR3UZkxcVrgR6utWCoctWrB1ibVg, with the exception of coin #15 which was funded from the address 1HR82r4jZf4TWFuLXKokvHc3Mkdk9YLBoa, which is also your address.

There's no method of accountability to ensure that the first 12 funded coins (11 purchased, 1 gifted) are not being held by OP. Each purchase should have an associated PGP signed deposit address, and should reasonably be funded by an address that's not "tainted" with OPs addresses.

Since this is not the case I would argue that there is no reason to feel confident that coins 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 15, and 17 are in the physical possession of different people.

I appreciate the offer of refund, however the coin isn't the problem. It's beautiful and unique. The problem is my confidence in the serialization of the coin series.

If I had received that message, I'd have offered a refund and left it at that.  I probably wouldn't have posted it in the forums.

If it turns out that I kept some of the first 15 of any physical coin I've ever released, I'm not sure anyone would have a problem with that.  As it turns out, I would expect the right to do that.  That would be me wanting to keep a sample of my work product for my own portfolio so I can collect it and enjoy it just like everybody else, and not to commit some sort of "fraud".

I don't think of my own coins the way others do.  If I have 15 series 1 coins, and they're selling for $499 on eBay, I don't "think" I have "$7500" worth of Casascius Coins, as I think it would be self-defeating to represent my own coins as having that value.  That's not my job.  In other words if I were selling them myself on eBay at $499 a pop, to maximize my own personal profit as a primary motivator, I think that would be rightfully seen as a bit disingenuous.  My privilege is to sell new coins at a decent markup and have willing buyers.  But if I keep 15 of the originals because I like to look at them with pride, or to gift them to someone who hopefully will cherish it rather than liquidate it to the highest bidder, someone telling me that to do so is wrong is lucky to even get a reply from me.

I appreciate the insight and agree with the sentiment. However, the equivalent of what you are describing would require coins that are kept/gifted be serialized different that the series that's available for purchase.
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August 19, 2013, 11:26:40 PM
 #16

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appreciate the offer of refund, however the coin isn't the problem. It's beautiful and unique. The problem is my confidence in the serialization of the coin series.

Here's what we are planning to do. We are going to release a table which will show which coins are "dead" as in should not be expected in the wild due to damage, etc.

Beyond that I can tell you that coins 4-8, 11, 12,13,15,17 all went to my father, who bought at full price. 16 was reserved for the artist.

2 was purchased by my father-in-law months ago.

1 is my grandfathers.

I actually don't have a coin of my own

I dont know how I can be more open and honest without spilling my order book all over these forums and compromising identities and privacy. But you trust me enough to believe that coin holds the value it does its not such a stretch to believe my serials.

Suffice to say, you have the lowest numbered coin which has any chance of being resold for a profit. What happens to the 16 coin is up to the artist but I would expect he would hang onto it.

the rest of the coins, number one especially, would be auctioned to a charity if they ever do come up for resale, so long as I have a say in what happens to them.




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August 20, 2013, 12:52:18 AM
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appreciate the offer of refund, however the coin isn't the problem. It's beautiful and unique. The problem is my confidence in the serialization of the coin series.

Here's what we are planning to do. We are going to release a table which will show which coins are "dead" as in should not be expected in the wild due to damage, etc.

Beyond that I can tell you that coins 4-8, 11, 12,13,15,17 all went to my father, who bought at full price. 16 was reserved for the artist.

2 was purchased by my father-in-law months ago.

1 is my grandfathers.

I actually don't have a coin of my own

I dont know how I can be more open and honest without spilling my order book all over these forums and compromising identities and privacy. But you trust me enough to believe that coin holds the value it does its not such a stretch to believe my serials.

Suffice to say, you have the lowest numbered coin which has any chance of being resold for a profit. What happens to the 16 coin is up to the artist but I would expect he would hang onto it.

the rest of the coins, number one especially, would be auctioned to a charity if they ever do come up for resale, so long as I have a say in what happens to them.





Thank you.

When I stated that I had the right to coin #1, it was before I knew sales were made before the coins were available to purchase. I believe that you provided me the coin with the correct serial, all things considered.

That being said, I don't think that coins should have been offered to individuals before the coins were publicly available. The reason this came up in the first place is because I believe in your business model and the product you produce. But to offer early coins to individuals at your discretion undermines what I feel makes a serialized coin unique and special. I think the best way to do it would have been to use a different series, or de-serialize the coins that are distributed at your discretion.

The table you mention would have alleviated my concerns about what someone earlier called "pre-mining." Given that I wasn't aware that any coins had been sold/given away at the time I placed my order, I reasonably believed that if I were the first person to place an order I would receive the #1 coin, second person #2, etc. This was not the case, and caused me to say "WTF?" when I opened up coin #18.

I do not think it's okay that all the lowest serialized coins are owned by people close to you. But I'm content with the coin and serialization now that I'm aware of what actually happened. Mistakes are fine - it just looked like you are trying to cover them up.

I'm appreciative that you've kept my identity private. Even this being the case, I hope you can understand that what you interpreted as a threat was truly an offer for help at a time that could be a turning point for your company. The information provided in the quoted text should have been disclosed at the initial offering. If I didn't catch this, someone else would. Better now than after 100 coins are sold and people lose trust. There was an opportunity to fix it before it started and I attempted to help you do that, with the information that I had available to me at the time. Like I said a few posts ago, I intentionally gave you the upper hand to deal with this as you see fit - my offer was only an offer. It's important to me to support the Bitcoin community. Was it a poor idea to offer my services? Probably. But truthfully, my time is important to me, and if I can offer a service, why not? I understand if you choose to not see it this way, but like I said, I'd rather see a new business succeed than tarnish a man's reputation.
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August 20, 2013, 01:01:24 AM
 #18

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appreciate the offer of refund, however the coin isn't the problem. It's beautiful and unique. The problem is my confidence in the serialization of the coin series.

Here's what we are planning to do. We are going to release a table which will show which coins are "dead" as in should not be expected in the wild due to damage, etc.

Beyond that I can tell you that coins 4-8, 11, 12,13,15,17 all went to my father, who bought at full price. 16 was reserved for the artist.

2 was purchased by my father-in-law months ago.

1 is my grandfathers.

I actually don't have a coin of my own

I dont know how I can be more open and honest without spilling my order book all over these forums and compromising identities and privacy. But you trust me enough to believe that coin holds the value it does its not such a stretch to believe my serials.

Suffice to say, you have the lowest numbered coin which has any chance of being resold for a profit. What happens to the 16 coin is up to the artist but I would expect he would hang onto it.

the rest of the coins, number one especially, would be auctioned to a charity if they ever do come up for resale, so long as I have a say in what happens to them.





Thank you.

When I stated that I had the right to coin #1, it was before I knew sales were made before the coins were available to purchase. I believe that you provided me the coin with the correct serial, all things considered.

That being said, I don't think that coins should have been offered to individuals before the coins were publicly available. The reason this came up in the first place is because I believe in your business model and the product you produce. But to offer early coins to individuals at your discretion undermines what I feel makes a serialized coin unique and special. I think the best way to do it would have been to use a different series, or de-serialize the coins that are distributed at your discretion.

The table you mention would have alleviated my concerns about what someone earlier called "pre-mining." Given that I wasn't aware that any coins had been sold/given away at the time I placed my order, I reasonably believed that if I were the first person to place an order I would receive the #1 coin, second person #2, etc. This was not the case, and caused me to say "WTF?" when I opened up coin #18.

I do not think it's okay that all the lowest serialized coins are owned by people close to you. But I'm content with the coin and serialization now that I'm aware of what actually happened. Mistakes are fine - it just looked like you are trying to cover them up.

I'm appreciative that you've kept my identity private. Even this being the case, I hope you can understand that what you interpreted as a threat was truly an offer for help at a time that could be a turning point for your company. The information provided in the quoted text should have been disclosed at the initial offering. If I didn't catch this, someone else would. Better now than after 100 coins are sold and people lose trust. There was an opportunity to fix it before it started and I attempted to help you do that, with the information that I had available to me at the time. Like I said a few posts ago, I intentionally gave you the upper hand to deal with this as you see fit - my offer was only an offer. It's important to me to support the Bitcoin community. Was it a poor idea to offer my services? Probably. But truthfully, my time is important to me, and if I can offer a service, why not? I understand if you choose to not see it this way, but like I said, I'd rather see a new business succeed than tarnish a man's reputation.

Well good. Im glad thats sorted out.

And like I have said before, you do have the lowest coin that that will could be resold for profit. The others at best will be auctioned off to charity, at which point everyone will have a chance at them.


Cheers


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August 20, 2013, 01:13:59 AM
 #19

w t f

ok
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August 20, 2013, 02:01:48 AM
 #20

moral: buyers of collectable coins are freakin' NUTS!
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