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Author Topic: CoinTerra Unveils a 2TH/s ASIC Bitcoin Miner : TerraMiner IV  (Read 18125 times)
gkm22d
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August 25, 2013, 09:36:58 AM
 #61

Oh, I don't mind preorders. I think a lot of people will be terribly dissapointed when they realize that no preorder means no profit.

Why would you sell a product in hand for less than you would get from mining with it?  Are there any asic manufacturers listed as charities?

16k still too expensive. I would purchase immediately for 10k though.
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monkee
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August 25, 2013, 05:28:36 PM
 #62

16k still too expensive. I would purchase immediately for 10k though.

you may want to revisit http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ and set shipping date to jan/2014

10k is still way overpriced

they are supposed to announce their remaining product line "by the end of the month" unless they miss their second self imposed deadline. 

i think they must decide to ship 3x hashpower for the same price or slash prices by a third to live up to their own hype and leave any meat on the bone for their customers... or implement a SERIOUS protection plan. guarantee a return of invested btc, minimum, for anyone to take them seriously.
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August 25, 2013, 05:54:16 PM
 #63

Oh, I don't mind preorders. I think a lot of people will be terribly dissapointed when they realize that no preorder means no profit.

This.  Preorder = risk.  Risk is the potential for profit.  I thing people are going to be terribly disapointed once companies have units in stock for immediate delivery.  Look at ASICMiner as an example.  I mean once built a company can do the same math a consumer can.  Future cashflow can be reduced to net present value.  If a company has a miner and it has a net present value of 50 BTC why would they sell it for less than 50 BTC?  They could simply use it to mine and generate >50 BTC.  Now if a company runs out of space, or power they may sell excess capacity for slightly less than net present value to increase demand but they days of massive "potential" profits are over.  100%, 200%, 300% gains per year.  Never going to happen with in stock miners.  Maybe 10% or 20% if you buy at the right time, have the right climate (cooling costs), and the low electrical costs.

Once again look at ASICMiner blade prices.  This is the same equipment used by ASICMiner.  People complain the prices are so high that all the potential profit is gone.  As the CEO of ASICMiner why would you see it for less?  If they (using their own projections on difficulty growth) project a blade will earn X BTC (discounted for risk & time value of money) it makes no sense to sell it for significantly less than X.  Shareholders would simply be subsidizing the profits of the buyers.  As a CEO looking to maximize the return for shareholder it doesn't really matter where the revenue comes from (sales or mining) the goal is to maximize revenue.

That being said some companies (BFL) have taken this to an asinine extreme so some backlack is inevitable but like you I really don't think most people appreciate what "in stock" prices are going to mean.  Another way to look at it is imagine you have a rig (or rigs) which produce 2 TH/s.  What would YOU sell it for?
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August 25, 2013, 06:30:28 PM
 #64

Oh, I don't mind preorders. I think a lot of people will be terribly dissapointed when they realize that no preorder means no profit.

This.  Preorder = risk.  Risk is the potential for profit.

Sounds clever but is untrue. Risk is the potential for *loss*, which may or may not translate into potential for profit.  Stupid risks -- walking out into traffic, investing in Equestria real estate -- offer dubious profit potential.

Quote
I thing people are going to be terribly disapointed once companies have units in stock for immediate delivery.  Look at ASICMiner as an example.  I mean once built a company can do the same math a consumer can.  Future cashflow can be reduced to net present value.  If a company has a miner and it has a net present value of 50 BTC why would they sell it for less than 50 BTC?

Because they get a higher profit/time by selling miners than by mining them?  If they make 90% profit by selling each miner at 45 BTC, and they feel the market could bear plenty of miners, why not sell miners, instead of mining for a year & only getting 10% profit?  Come on, this is basic.

Quote
They could simply use it to mine and generate >50 BTC.  Now if a company runs out of space, or power they may sell it for slightly less than 50 BTC but the days of massive "potential" profits are over.

No company is going to sell a miner (in stock ready to start hashing) which they project will produce 50 net BTC in a year for 20 BTC.  Once again look at ASICMiner blade prices.  This is the same equipment used by ASICMiner.  Why would they sell it for significantly less than what they can earn from mining?  As a shareholder it doesn't really matter where the revenue comes from (sales or mining) the goal is to maximize revenue.

See my answer above.
gkm22d
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August 25, 2013, 06:31:07 PM
 #65

16k still too expensive. I would purchase immediately for 10k though.

you may want to revisit http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ and set shipping date to jan/2014

10k is still way overpriced

they are supposed to announce their remaining product line "by the end of the month" unless they miss their second self imposed deadline. 

i think they must decide to ship 3x hashpower for the same price or slash prices by a third to live up to their own hype and leave any meat on the bone for their customers... or implement a SERIOUS protection plan. guarantee a return of invested btc, minimum, for anyone to take them seriously.

Under this scenario, http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/90782dc52a , the difficulty would be 557 billion by the end of 2014. That would be almost 4,000 petahash. Even at $1 a gigahash, that is $4 billion worth of hardware, not to get into the electricity consumption.

I think this scenario is more likely:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/e9b41de60d
That is 2 billion for January (yes it says august), which is unrealistically high, with a 400 million increase, every month. that is another 2.8ish petahash a month.

Of course all numbers a can be thrown out the window if there is another bubble before then.
tinus42
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August 25, 2013, 06:48:09 PM
 #66

Tired of all the pre-announcements.   How about selling when your product is ready and ready to ship?

Only ASICMINER seems to be able to do this (and that is why they can charge high prices and people still buy from them). Why can't the others? C'mon give us some real competition!
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August 27, 2013, 01:06:07 PM
 #67

http://www.coindesk.com/cointerra-cuts-price-of-terraminer-iv-bitcoin-mining-rig/

price reduced from $15,750 to $13,999

approx $7 per Gh which makes it cheaper than BFL.

Will

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August 28, 2013, 09:36:22 AM
 #68

Oh, I don't mind preorders. I think a lot of people will be terribly dissapointed when they realize that no preorder means no profit.

Why would you sell a product in hand for less than you would get from mining with it?  Are there any asic manufacturers listed as charities?

16k still too expensive. I would purchase immediately for 10k though.

I guess you do not mind preorders because you did not preorder BFL, bASIC, Avalon batch #2 and #3 and Avalon chips.

No matter how hard we try to warn noobs, more and more noobs will flood the Bitcoin ecosystem, they will arrive completely blinded by greed, and they will throw their money into these pre-order schemes while dreaming about getting rich quick.

Sad.

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August 28, 2013, 09:57:04 AM
 #69

http://www.coindesk.com/cointerra-cuts-price-of-terraminer-iv-bitcoin-mining-rig/

price reduced from $15,750 to $13,999

approx $7 per Gh which makes it cheaper than BFL.

Will

Still not cheap enough to satisfy Paypal's maximum transaction price of US$10,000.

They promised to use Paypal as a secure payment processor, this offering sufficient consumer protection.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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kingcoin
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August 28, 2013, 08:14:47 PM
 #70

Cointerra in Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7246/the-rush-to-bitcoin-asics-ravi-iyengar-launches-cointerra
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August 28, 2013, 08:35:27 PM
 #71


Thanks for the link.

"Q: Finally, how do you assuage feelings from users who have wanted ASICs but have been stung by long wait times?  Will you be having regular updates with the community regarding the status of the products?

A: We plan to have a blog and have a person assigned to communicate to purchasers."
 

Lolz.
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August 28, 2013, 11:16:13 PM
 #72


How this type of story fits into Anandtech's "cub-scout badge" journalism model beats me. Which staffer covers this story, the wastepaper basket?

Vires in numeris
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August 29, 2013, 01:29:01 AM
 #73

Sorry if this has already been asked but what is the power draw on these things? Anyone know?

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August 29, 2013, 01:32:28 AM
 #74

Sorry if this has already been asked but what is the power draw on these things? Anyone know?

I think they are estimating 1,200w... pretty impressive really considering a four module Avalon is 110 Gh @ 975w

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August 29, 2013, 01:45:57 AM
 #75

Impressive indeed, when you put it like that! I wonder who has the most energy efficient asic? At the same time i wonder who's chip has the most headroom, in terms of overclocking..

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August 29, 2013, 02:20:25 AM
 #76

Impressive indeed, when you put it like that! I wonder who has the most energy efficient asic? At the same time i wonder who's chip has the most headroom, in terms of overclocking..

If I had to guess, probably HashFast because water cooling comes as the stock cooling solution.

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August 29, 2013, 02:21:18 AM
 #77

Impressive indeed, when you put it like that! I wonder who has the most energy efficient asic?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279
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August 29, 2013, 03:25:20 AM
 #78

Impressive indeed, when you put it like that! I wonder who has the most energy efficient asic?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279

Thanks for the link...


Impressive indeed, when you put it like that! I wonder who has the most energy efficient asic? At the same time i wonder who's chip has the most headroom, in terms of overclocking..

If I had to guess, probably HashFast because water cooling comes as the stock cooling solution.


I forgot about that.. KNC dropped plans to water cool a while back if im not mistaken. I wonder if they will regret it.

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August 29, 2013, 03:57:47 AM
 #79

Yes, although to be fair I don't think Cointerra has released cooling specs/info, neither have a couple other companies.

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August 29, 2013, 05:38:34 AM
 #80

Yes, although to be fair I don't think Cointerra has released cooling specs/info, neither have a couple other companies.

Yeah i was going through cointerra's faq looking for it.. 

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