A bitcoin ponzi scheme scam ADVERTISED on bitcointalk.org ?? WHY???

[1PFYcabWEwZFm2Ez5LGTx3ftz]

I would reject a really obvious Ponzi scheme, but this isn't so obvious IMO.

Would you kindly tell us an example of a ponzi scheme more obvious than this one?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Why do people use the term ponzi scheme for everything?

It may be fraud, it may be highly likely "investors" will lose everything but it certainly isn't a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme "A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation."

And this is exactly what this advertisement is about. He doesn't promise to invest them in some new and exciting project, he just promises to give back 3x more. This is a textbook example of a ponzi scheme.

I am baffled that the administration even seriously considers that this might not be a scam. Can you name even one case in all human history, where 200% interest was promised for loans and it was NOT a scam?

You (the forum's administration) are shooting yourselves in the leg here. Advertising scams and even arguing "well maybe it's not a scam" seriously hurts your credibility, and in the long run you lose a lot more than you gained from what the scammer payed for the advert.

A ponzi scheme pays early investors with later investors deposits.  He isn't paying anyone for 3 years.  In three years he will either pay (highly unlikely) or simply disapear with ALL the funds.  There is no ponzi.  Not all fraud is a ponzi scheme.

[1PFYcabWEwZFm2Ez5LGTx3ftz]

Why do people use the term ponzi scheme for everything?

It may be fraud, it may be highly likely "investors" will lose everything but it certainly isn't a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme "A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation."

And this is exactly what this advertisement is about. He doesn't promise to invest them in some new and exciting project, he just promises to give back 3x more. This is a textbook example of a ponzi scheme.

I am baffled that the administration even seriously considers that this might not be a scam. Can you name even one case in all human history, where 200% interest was promised for loans and it was NOT a scam?

You (the forum's administration) are shooting yourselves in the leg here. Advertising scams and even arguing "well maybe it's not a scam" seriously hurts your credibility, and in the long run you lose a lot more than you gained from what the scammer payed for the advert.

A ponzi scheme pays early investors with later investors deposits.  He isn't paying anyone for 3 years.  In three years he will either pay (highly unlikely) or simply disapear with ALL the funds.  There is no ponzi.  Not all fraud is a ponzi scheme.

"He isn't paying anyone for 3 years." - that is false, he has payed some already (according to customer feedback on bitmit). So please, tell me again, how is this not a ponzi scheme?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Read the linked bitmit description.  You send coins and AFTER three years he sends back 3x as much.  There are no payments over time.   It is stupid, and "investors" are almost certainly going to lose everything but it isn't a ponzi.

Not everything is a ponzi scheme.  I have a feeling if someone mugged you on the street you would be telling the policeman you were a victim of a ponzi scheme.

[1PFYcabWEwZFm2Ez5LGTx3ftz]

Read the linked bitmit description.  You send coins and AFTER three years he sends back 3x as much.  There are no payments over time.   It is stupid, and "investors" are almost certainly going to lose everything but it isn't a ponzi.
Not everything is a ponzi scheme.  I have a feeling if someone mugged you on the street you would be telling the policeman you were a victim of a ponzi scheme.

I read the linked bitmit description. Did YOU read it?

He does not say he will send the coins AFTER three years, he says he will send the coins WITHIN three years.

"I will transfer 3 Bitcoins (BTC) over the Bitcoin network to a single-transaction Bitcoin address of your choice within 3 Universal Time Coordinated (UTC) calendar years."

Why are you lying so blatantly, when everyone can check it? There are feedback from other users, stating that he already sent them 3x BTC.

THIS. IS. A. PERFECT. EXAMPLE. OF. A. PONZI. SCHEME.

[Anduck]

Read the linked bitmit description.  You send coins and AFTER three years he sends back 3x as much.  There are no payments over time.   It is stupid, and "investors" are almost certainly going to lose everything but it isn't a ponzi.
Not everything is a ponzi scheme.  I have a feeling if someone mugged you on the street you would be telling the policeman you were a victim of a ponzi scheme.

I read the linked bitmit description. Did YOU read it?

He does not say he will send the coins AFTER three years, he says he will send the coins WITHIN three years.

"I will transfer 3 Bitcoins (BTC) over the Bitcoin network to a single-transaction Bitcoin address of your choice within 3 Universal Time Coordinated (UTC) calendar years."

Why are you lying so blatantly, when everyone can check it? There are feedback from other users, stating that he already sent them 3x BTC.

THIS. IS. A. PERFECT. EXAMPLE. OF. A. PONZI. SCHEME.

And it's getting more "customers" from these forums..  
Why can't theymos just accept only clearly legit ads? There are plenty of those available and showing them could actually increase the credibility of bitcoin (showing ponzi / scam ads decreases it).
If there just were ads to services and goods that can be bought with Bitcoin..  People could actually see what Bitcoin can be used for!! (if not these currently advertised mining "ponzi" schemes/scams/"investing opportunities")

[johnyj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme "A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation."

I am doing some research recently regarding this topic, it is a bit complex, it depends on the long term sustainability of the return

You save your money in the banks and receive 2% interest per year. This could also be a ponzi scheme, since the banks could get more and more deposit each year from new depositors and pay you interest with their deposits

But there is a limitation on how big that interest can be, that's the growth of available new deposits, and ultimately limited by the money supply expansion speed. If money supply do not expand more than 5% per year, it is impossible for banks to give you a return of higher than 5% per year constantly

"Profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation", this term is unclear, what is an operation? Isn't providing a deposit service an operation? This service itself can draw in more and more deposit each year due to expansion of money supply, and if the money supply expansion is constant, then this 2% profit model can be maintained forever

People usually define very high return to be a ponzi scheme, since it is not sustainable, will eventually run out of new depositors and late investors will lose their money

So it all depends on the sustainability. If this return is long term sustainable, then it will be a financial innovation instead of a ponzi scheme

Back to OP's question, a 2X return in bitcoin in one year, is it long term sustainable? We all know that bitcoin's money supply is decreasing each year, so that is definitely not sustainable, so it is a ponzi scheme for sure

[HeroC]

Hmm... seems to be admin need to review every ads that appears in bitcointalk

Uh... they do. Theymos does. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I would reject a really obvious Ponzi scheme, but this isn't so obvious IMO.

Would you kindly tell us an example of a ponzi scheme more obvious than this one?

You fuckin' bastard! You made me spit coffee all over my new laptop. Now, who should I send the bill to? 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I just read this entire thread, and unless I missed it, nobody has pointed out that site in question is just an ad running on Bitmit.

Bitmit is a global Bitcoin shopping platform on which people from all over the world can buy and sell goods.

It'll be as if the link went to an auction on eBay or to a Craigslist listing, either one of which, including the site in question, can be deleted by the site owner for whatever reason. With all due respect, theymos, I don't see how this was allowed. If the same was on a self-hosted site, then your argument may hold water, but since that's clearly not the case, I have to respectfully disagree.

Please correct me if my assessment is in error.

If this is allowed, I will then put up a page offering 4 to 1 bitcoins in X timeframe. At this penning, I'm already seriously thinking about doing such, for I clearly see the potential here. My only worries is the guy who've come in behind me and do 5 to 1, cutting into my business. Come to think of it, I could me that guy too, but then I'll have another worry of another guy offering up 6 to 1 unless, of course, I'm that guy too. But if another guy...

[b!z]

It could be just a scam and not a ponzi. I don't think many people have even purchased his 3x bitcoin.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It could be just a scam and not a ponzi. I don't think many people have even purchased his 3x bitcoin.

People has and got 3x coins back, for now.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

It could be just a scam and not a ponzi. I don't think many people have even purchased his 3x bitcoin.

People has and got 3x coins back, for now.

My guess is if one were able to view his stocking drawer in his dresser...

[Raize]

Honestly, if you want to instigate real change, you should be telling all the other advertisers on the forum about how obvious of a scam this is, and ask them why they advertise here if this one ad completely ruins the reputation of the forums.

I think you'd be surprised at how much some of these other advertisers might listen to you and subsequently pressure theymos to reject the ad under the threat of pulling their ads.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Honestly, if you want to instigate real change, you should be telling all the other advertisers on the forum about how obvious of a scam this is, and ask them why they advertise here if this one ad completely ruins the reputation of the forums.

I think you'd be surprised at how much some of these other advertisers might listen to you and subsequently pressure theymos to reject the ad under the threat of pulling their ads.

I doubt it.  Most of the ads coming from companies selling ASICs and for that target market there is no better advertising space in the entire world.  The window of profitability is rather small (as value of units are going to decline proportional to global hashrate) so it makes little sense to pull ads.

Theymos could say for ASIC companies then min bid is 20 BTC and he likely would still sell out of ad space.  Under normal conditions you probably are right though.

[marcovaldo]

Hmm... seems to be admin need to review every ads that appears in bitcointalk

He did (see above) and accepted this one.

[CoinHoarder]

I went all in on this one.

I'm going to be rich! 

[b!z]

It could be just a scam and not a ponzi. I don't think many people have even purchased his 3x bitcoin.

People has and got 3x coins back, for now.

Did they wait 3 years? Or was it 3x btc in 3 days?

[QuantPlus]

Why do people use the term ponzi scheme for everything?

It may be fraud, it may be highly likely "investors" will lose everything but it certainly isn't a ponzi scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme "A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation."

And this is exactly what this advertisement is about. He doesn't promise to invest them in some new and exciting project, he just promises to give back 3x more. This is a textbook example of a ponzi scheme.

I am baffled that the administration even seriously considers that this might not be a scam. Can you name even one case in all human history, where 200% interest was promised for loans and it was NOT a scam?

You (the forum's administration) are shooting yourselves in the leg here. Advertising scams and even arguing "well maybe it's not a scam" seriously hurts your credibility, and in the long run you lose a lot more than you gained from what the scammer payed for the advert.

You should visit Alt Coin sometime.