Are The World's Finances That Bad, Is It Good for Bitcoin?

[seafarer124]

Have just read the following article and others recently and wonder if this is good for Bitcoin.



"The news this morning tells us that Thailand is in recession. Indonesia is in a bear market.

India’s currency is plunging so rapidly that the government is desperately implementing capital controls. Japan’s trade deficit was the third worst on record last month.

Here in Italy, unemployment is at a record high, and financial-related suicides have increased 40% over last year (which itself was a record).

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.

One of the bankers here, who hails from a boutique firm in Austria specializing in physical gold products, asked very plainly during lunch today: “Is there any good news?”

You bet.

The good news is that this fraudulent system of unchecked, unbacked paper currency is finally coming to an end."

[1715691114]

1715691114

[knight22]

Of course the whole fiat system crashing is good for bitcoin. This is why most of us are here.
People are looking for alternatives like bitcoin.

[steelboy]

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.[/b]

Have you got a link for this?

[FeedbackLoop]

Indians have long loved gold for a reason. Actually a great crowd in terms of alternatives to currency for Bitcoin to expand into. Especially so with all the controls the Indian  government as been putting on gold imports.

 

[JonHolmquist]

Look up the civil forfeiture cases in the U.S.

There was just an article the other day about it being abused.

It certainly showcases some degree of corruption and maybe desperation in the U.S... But your question is whether it is good for Bitcoin...

Maybe.

The best thing for Bitcoin right now would be for the government to allow self-regulation inside the Bitcoin industry.

They'd only do that if they didn't feel threatened, right?

[seafarer124]

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.[/b]

Have you got a link for this?

I read it here:

https://www.facebook.com/BitCoinThailand

[seafarer124]

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.[/b]

Have you got a link for this?

I read it here:

https://www.facebook.com/BitCoinThailand

Interesting you asked, I could not find anything to substantiate the report on the net.  Strange there is not more reports on the limit.

I have just found this link:

http://www.globalblue.com/corporate/news/italys-policy-on-cash-payments-limits-sales/

[steelboy]

Over 6% fees is ridiculous. As if you would use anything other than cash if that was the case. 

[seafarer124]

Over 6% fees is ridiculous. As if you would use anything other than cash if that was the case.  

Could use Bitcoin

Just found France is doing the same.

[Singlebyte]

You should see Argentina's economy.  Bitcoins are exploding there.

From today's Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/21/five-surprising-facts-about-bitcoin-2/

[Gabi]

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.[/b]

Have you got a link for this?

I can confirm there is a 1000€ top, there was a proposal to lower it to 500... and i can also confirm about the new "anti tax evasion" thing.

[steelboy]

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.[/b]

Have you got a link for this?

I can confirm there is a 1000€ top, there was a proposal to lower it to 500... and i can also confirm about the new "anti tax evasion" thing.

Bitcoin is exactly what Argentina need. It is the right thing at the right time over there. I can't wait to see how it develops.

[shark32]

Generally I share the opinion that weak fiat leads to strong BTC

BUT there is a common believe the next popping bubble will be of biblical size. This may lead to an temporary infrastructure breakdown, which includes the absence of energy to run computers.

thats pretty much it

[Fallen666]

Adding insult to injury, the Italian government has banned cash transactions above 1,000 euros and rolled out a new army of tax police to seize people’s assets in a guilty-til-proven innocent system.[/b]

Have you got a link for this?

I can confirm there is a 1000€ top, there was a proposal to lower it to 500... and i can also confirm about the new "anti tax evasion" thing.

Bitcoin is exactly what Argentina need. It is the right thing at the right time over there. I can't wait to see how it develops.

Situation in Italy is very bad, if you want to prove you're innocent you also have to pay big money otherwise they just take all you got....plain madness

[p2pbucks]

yes . Bad monetary system will pump bitcoin market .

[steelboy]

yes . Bad monetary system will pump bitcoin market .

And if the amount of products and services available to use with Bitcoin increases then people will be even better off.

[Swordsoffreedom]

Bad money will be spent good money will be kept or so I have heard several times

[pennywise]

Generally I share the opinion that weak fiat leads to strong BTC

BUT there is a common believe the next popping bubble will be of biblical size. This may lead to an temporary infrastructure breakdown, which includes the absence of energy to run computers.

thats pretty much it

I, for one, consider your scenario quite plausible and worth being scared the shit from.

If this happens, I should better own a gun and lots of fish cans.

[domob]

Bad money will be spent good money will be kept or so I have heard several times

This concernes mainly two "types" of money that have equal value by law even though their value is not perceived equal by the people.  Think of "old" silver coins with 90% silver content and "new" ones with only 50% content, even though both are labelled as "1 Dollar".  Then whenever you want to pay a dollar, if you have a new and an old coin, you would probably spend the new one and keep the old one for yourself because it is actually worth more (for its silver content).  For Bitcoin and fiat this means that people who are into Bitcoin and believe that fiat will crash at some point are going to try to buy things with fiat as long as they still have it and save in Bitcoin.

[xxjs]

India rupi going down quickly, but obviously it is too early for bitcoin to mean much in India. If they can bail the boat for one more year, that would be nice for bitcoin.

[J603]

The downfall of fiat is the downfall of bitcoin. Currently bitcoins are not popular enough as a currency to replace fiat. They have very few legitimate uses as a currency, and their value is tied to fiat. If the fiat currencies lose value then bitcoin will follow.

[Carlton Banks]

The downfall of fiat is the downfall of bitcoin. Currently bitcoins are not popular enough as a currency to replace fiat. They have very few legitimate uses as a currency, and their value is tied to fiat. If the fiat currencies lose value then bitcoin will follow.

All wrong

The fiat currencies are losing value to Bitcoin as it is, and the value of Bitcoin is not "tied" to fiat, it floats freely. This equates to saying that the fiat currencies have value tied to each other, which is closer to the genuine truth (the currency markets are heavily manipulated a la LIBOR). Bitcoin's legitimate uses outnumber the illegitimate ones, it just gets more attention for the illegitimate uses via media ignorance and smearing. I'd have to put your opinions squarely in that camp: ignorant or hostile (or both, you choose)

[cr1776]

+1  You beat me to it.
(Carlton - say hello to your cousin from the hood    )

All wrong

The fiat currencies are losing value to Bitcoin as it is, and the value of Bitcoin is not "tied" to fiat, it floats freely. This equates to saying that the fiat currencies have value tied to each other, which is closer to the genuine truth (the currency markets are heavily manipulated a la LIBOR). Bitcoin's legitimate uses outnumber the illegitimate ones, it just gets more attention for the illegitimate uses via media ignorance and smearing. I'd have to put your opinions squarely in that camp: ignorant or hostile (or both, you choose)

[AKCoins]

Political and economic uncertainty can be a positive factor with regard to the price of Bitcoin. Bitcoin can become desirable when a number of macroeconomic indicators go south. For example, if a government's fiat currency becomes unstable as a result of political issues or economic uncertainty, a more stable alternative may be Bitcoin. Although many people believe that Bitcoin is very volatile for a currency (and it has been in the past), it may prove to be a suitable alternative compared to certain local currencies.

Right now, the Indian rupee is being decimated. Since the beginning of the year, the rupee has declined over 17% against the dollar. Conversely, Bitcoin has gone up over 920% in USD terms (based on the increase from around $13 USD in Jan to $120 today). So in India, where the currency is getting hammered, Bitcoin may continue to serve as a good store of value.

Keep in mind, converting all your local currency into Bitcoin is a terrible idea. I will not get into further detail as this topic has been exhausted on other threads. Investing or converting local fiat into Bitcoin only makes sense as part of a larger overall strategy. For example, if you have plenty of funds in your local currency available, you may be inclined to put a portion of your excess reserves into something like Bitcoin. Again, a small piece of the puzzle.

[hayek]

Yes, world fiat currency is a sinking ship.

[Wekkel]

My bet is that we will first see deflation again after which the world's Central Banks open the floodgates and currency starts to lose value in increased doses. That short period of deflation is not necessarily a good period for Bitcoin. If the S&P500 goes down hard together with other paper, cash will be king and in higher demand, especially USD. Higher demand of USD could mean lower Bitcoin prices.

[Carlton Banks]

My bet is that we will first see deflation again after which the world's Central Banks open the floodgates and currency starts to lose value in increased doses. That short period of deflation is not necessarily a good period for Bitcoin. If the S&P500 goes down hard together with other paper, cash will be king and in higher demand, especially USD.

I've thought through similar scenarios, and characterize it as a certain proportion of people will cling to fiat ever harder the more it comes under pressure, particularly in the "successful" Western world where there are no cultural reference points for currency collapse at the moment. It's going to be like a religious acolyte watching their god or prophet dying in front of their eyes, in slow motion.

[xxjs]

My bet is that we will first see deflation again after which the world's Central Banks open the floodgates and currency starts to lose value in increased doses. That short period of deflation is not necessarily a good period for Bitcoin. If the S&P500 goes down hard together with other paper, cash will be king and in higher demand, especially USD. Higher demand of USD could mean lower Bitcoin prices.

This is excactly what I think too. Well said.

[sublime5447]

Bunch of retards posting here. Bitcoin isnt tied to fiat currency value and floats freely---what a load of bullshit. It would do you all some good to look at the history of the great depression.

In a deflationary environment all asset prices fall as dollars become more scarce.

Bitcoin will not fair well in a deflationary collapse at least quantitatively. Your bitcoins will be valued at a lower rate but may have more purchasing power.

In other words your coins might be valued at 50 usd, but 50 usd might buy 150 usd worth of goods at pre-collapses pricing.

It is very difficult to say how things will play out. The world has never seen a deflation event on a global scale.

Do yourself a favor and watch this then read this guys books.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iquemUNNYY8


   

[Swordsoffreedom]

Deflation kicks in slowly were still inflating for a couple decades  

[viboracecata]

Not good for bitcoin at current stage.

[BitChick]

Bunch of retards posting here. Bitcoin isnt tied to fiat currency value and floats freely---what a load of bullshit. It would do you all some good to look at the history of the great depression.

In a deflationary environment all asset prices fall as dollars become more scarce.

Bitcoin will not fair well in a deflationary collapse at least quantitatively. Your bitcoins will be valued at a lower rate but may have more purchasing power.

In other words your coins might be valued at 50 usd, but 50 usd might buy 150 usd worth of goods at pre-collapses pricing.

It is very difficult to say how things will play out. The world has never seen a deflation event on a global scale.

Do yourself a favor and watch this then read this guys books.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iquemUNNYY8

   

I get what you are saying, and was thinking similar thoughts.  However, if the purchase power of BTC increases doesn't that in itself, make BTC more powerful or useful?  I would think so.

Regardless, to be "wealthy" during the great depression was not fun I am sure.  Having to see so many people suffer is never good.  I hope that we can escape that kind of suffering.  We will see though.