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Author Topic: [MUST READ] Butterfly Labs FTC complaint  (Read 9458 times)
btcdrak
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August 23, 2013, 10:28:47 AM
 #41

The simple fact that they sold far more Singles than anything else has absolutely nothing to do with it I suppose?  I've seen so many "Man... if I hadn't upgraded my Jala to Singles I'd be hashing now!" posts I can't count them.

Oh, and mini's are ahead of Singles when for the most part only 1/3 have shipped?
If they sold far more Singles, they should f-ing focus on making them and delivering them. As far as I see it, they shit on the Singles and make other products, thus rendering Singles not profitable when they finally arrive. It is unfair to the customers.

That's part of the long ponzi like con. They can claim to be shipping to lots of customers by sending out lots of Jalis since they only use a single chip. I'm not saying they are a ponzi scheme, but it's just part of their deceptive practices. Surely the better way would be to ship all orders in the order they were received/paid - but doing so would mean the order dates would not move so fast, therefor it would further hurt their already bad reputation. So they choose to further build the illusion of productivity but focusing on Jalis.

They had to instigate a no-refund policy because people had lost patience and they feared going bust. Fact is, that is illegal. Some honesty would have gone a long way, but they have chosen delay and stall tactics at every stage.
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August 23, 2013, 12:34:24 PM
 #42

I think the jalapeno uses 2 chips.  But someone in another thread was waiting to get his hands on his jalapeno to be able to add 6 more chips and turn it into a little single.  Good luck with that -- there's a reason why the LS uses the same board as the single.

Butterfly Labs has a different interpretation of the FTC Mail Order Rule.  You do not have a refund option with the BFL Monarch no matter how late they ship.
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August 23, 2013, 01:27:51 PM
 #43

thanks god i dont waste my money in this SHIT, KncMiner looks much more professional i hope the delivery start in sept/oct

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August 24, 2013, 12:02:02 AM
 #44

Petition time!: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=280290.0

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DoogieHouser
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August 24, 2013, 07:53:00 AM
 #45

I've pondered this situation a lot.  Yes, BFL are dicks. They've had my money, interest-free for over a year, and I will be damned if I use the discount coupons they sent me. (Like I will spend more of my money with these shysters, right?)

I guess I'm kind of new on the scene... I purchased a couple of FGPAs in the spring of 2012. They arrived in July. I was happy with their performance, and I decided to purchase some more. I understand that a mining operation needs to continually invest in hardware to remain profitable.

When I went to buy some more FGPAs, BFL had their ASICs on their web-site. I was ready to drop a good chunk of change on hardware, and I did. The expected delivery date was October 2012, which was acceptable to me. Here we sit, nearly a year later, and I loathe these as**holes.

There is nothing that BFL can do to redeem themselves. They are a prime example of a poorly-run business (I shall refrain from calling it a ponzi scheme). I have suffered extensive financial distress because I entered into a business agreement with these mofos.  Just the same, the hardware that I ordered is 225x faster than what I have now, and BFL has informed me that it is ready to ship.

I want my hardware, and don't you c**suckers ruin it for those of us who are willing to wait for our hardware. I believe that we're all in agreement that BFL sucks. Filing a complaint with the FTC while your orders are in limbo is insane. Period.

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btcdrak
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August 24, 2013, 08:34:39 AM
 #46

I want my hardware, and don't you c**suckers ruin it for those of us who are willing to wait for our hardware. I believe that we're all in agreement that BFL sucks. Filing a complaint with the FTC while your orders are in limbo is insane. Period.

Sir, your thinking is quite idiotic. The only way for you to see your money back (especially if you are waiting for SC and Singles) is a refund. I am sorry if you are so desperate and greedy that you can only see your own distress, but BFL have conned millions out of us all and this action is necessary for the greater good.

As someone said above it's like realising you are in a ponzi scheme, but you dont want the feds to shut it down until you get your money out... the problem with that thinking is for you to get your money out, countless others must take the bait and lose their money. It has to be shut down.

FTC action will not close down Butterfly Labs, unless they are actually running a scheme - in which case they should and MUST be closed down.

FTC action is more likely going to strong arm BFL into following the law - like issuing refunds for undelivered goods and not trying to get customers to sign away statutory rights (which you cannot sign away anyway).

If I am a c*sucker for bringing this action to the table (and for having their Paypal account frozen), for the greater good of Bitcoin community, then I am happy to be one. Selfishness just breeds more suffering. You are being selfish by basically supporting these scam artists. You are stuck in a complete logical fallacy - a bit like the "too big to fail bank" con that allows them to rob you over and over with impunity.

We are going to get FTC action against BFL, with or without you.

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August 24, 2013, 02:14:09 PM
 #47

I upgraded my July 2012 Jala order to a Single. I specifically asked if this would affect my place in line or date of delivery and BFL told me in no uncertain terms that it wouldn't. Then they went right ahead and sent out orders to people who were months behind me in line. They lied to me and they robbed me. I will be pursuing this matter with the FTC and the Kansas and New York DA's. BFL is running an investment lottery and a pyramid scheme, it's pretty clear now.
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August 25, 2013, 07:14:17 AM
 #48

you need to read this guys. http://bflfraud.com/

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August 25, 2013, 07:17:45 AM
 #49

I upgraded my July 2012 Jala order to a Single. I specifically asked if this would affect my place in line or date of delivery and BFL told me in no uncertain terms that it wouldn't. Then they went right ahead and sent out orders to people who were months behind me in line. They lied to me and they robbed me. I will be pursuing this matter with the FTC and the Kansas and New York DA's. BFL is running an investment lottery and a pyramid scheme, it's pretty clear now.

Scary they can continue to do business given that they seem to be a very easy target for an AG looking to win points.

They are living on borrowed time.

BFL = Shady.

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August 25, 2013, 11:38:56 AM
 #50

I am filing a complaint now:

I bought a BFL single 50 GH bitcoin miner from them.  I used a site called www.bitcoinx.comprofit that shows a banner where they tout a 50 GH miner for a mere 2499.99.  In english that would have translated to what appeared to be 4600 USD per month at the time when I purchased it.  On their site there was a little disclaimer that said it could take two weeks or more to receive my ordered equipment.  I wanted to jump in on the miner because these things are extremely time sensitive and getting it one two or three months later would have a significant impact on my overall profit and ROI.  I got cold feet after waiting over two months and decided to request a refund.  They denied a refund so I went on to initiate a chargeback.  Now they contacted my company with the payment information but never delivered the merchandise nor much anyone elses either.  so at this point, they have recently now announced a new item and they want people to upgrade their past orders.  Now I have no hope of making any money with the device but I wanted my refund already a long time ago!  Please please expose these guys for what they are... pure evil and a new wave of ponzi scheme.  Im still trying to work with Amex to get my money back.

I have also emailed sonny@butterflylabs.com jody@butterflylabs.com and josh@butterflylabs.com I have not received a bounce reply which leads me on to believe that those could be valid emails.  I suggest you submit your claim to the FTC here: 

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov Click the brown box on the right.

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September 02, 2013, 03:34:53 PM
 #51

There are many, many folks who would love to see BFL and their customers removed from the bitcoin mining scene. These folks are joined by those who just realized that a 4.5GH/S miner is not a ticket to a private jet and finally, there are those drama queens who simply love being in a state of high dungeon.

These are the folks who cut a path of havoc and destruction through anything and everything involving risk and innovation.  These risk-taking would-be ‘financial investors’ turn to ‘idiot protection’ programs such as the FTC and state AGs when they discovered risk was spelled RISK and actually had a meaning in the dictionary.

Well these proud little losers, bragging all day and all night on these forums about how badly they have been mistreated, want their money back before their product ships. Those who already have their miners are trying now to shutdown BFL before the other customers get their miners and then there are the drama queens who simply love to moan out loud how much they have been hurt by this mean old world.

Well, you perpetual children who have always used the power of government to intervene when losing your bets will probably be successful in damaging the rest of us. You’ll continue to reduce the GDP of your nations, you’ll continue to see jobs disappear and you’ll continue to see the government involved in your underwear, toothpaste and career choices.

It’s your own damn fault you ‘I’m so stupid I need somebody to protect me from my own dumb decisions’ scum-bag losers. Pull your damn pants up, buy dinner instead of a tattoo, and eat your failures like a real human being.
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September 02, 2013, 03:48:10 PM
 #52

There are many, many folks who would love to see BFL and their customers removed from the bitcoin mining scene. These folks are joined by those who just realized that a 4.5GH/S miner is not a ticket to a private jet and finally, there are those drama queens who simply love being in a state of high dungeon.

These are the folks who cut a path of havoc and destruction through anything and everything involving risk and innovation.  These risk-taking would-be ‘financial investors’ turn to ‘idiot protection’ programs such as the FTC and state AGs when they discovered risk was spelled RISK and actually had a meaning in the dictionary.

Well these proud little losers, bragging all day and all night on these forums about how badly they have been mistreated, want their money back before their product ships. Those who already have their miners are trying now to shutdown BFL before the other customers get their miners and then there are the drama queens who simply love to moan out loud how much they have been hurt by this mean old world.

Well, you perpetual children who have always used the power of government to intervene when losing your bets will probably be successful in damaging the rest of us. You’ll continue to reduce the GDP of your nations, you’ll continue to see jobs disappear and you’ll continue to see the government involved in your underwear, toothpaste and career choices.

It’s your own damn fault you ‘I’m so stupid I need somebody to protect me from my own dumb decisions’ scum-bag losers. Pull your damn pants up, buy dinner instead of a tattoo, and eat your failures like a real human being.

Yes, and the BFL are completely innocent in all this, right? There is no reason to be mad at them - they don't lie, they are not incompetent, and they are not breaking any laws.

But seriously - the government is there for their protection too. Any "happy" customer might be knocking at BFL door with a molotow by now, if there wasn't the government instituted persecute machinery.
btcdrak
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September 02, 2013, 04:16:05 PM
 #53

There are many, many folks who would love to see BFL and their customers removed from the bitcoin mining scene. These folks are joined by those who just realized that a 4.5GH/S miner is not a ticket to a private jet and finally, there are those drama queens who simply love being in a state of high dungeon.

These are the folks who cut a path of havoc and destruction through anything and everything involving risk and innovation.  These risk-taking would-be ‘financial investors’ turn to ‘idiot protection’ programs such as the FTC and state AGs when they discovered risk was spelled RISK and actually had a meaning in the dictionary.

Well these proud little losers, bragging all day and all night on these forums about how badly they have been mistreated, want their money back before their product ships. Those who already have their miners are trying now to shutdown BFL before the other customers get their miners and then there are the drama queens who simply love to moan out loud how much they have been hurt by this mean old world.

Well, you perpetual children who have always used the power of government to intervene when losing your bets will probably be successful in damaging the rest of us. You’ll continue to reduce the GDP of your nations, you’ll continue to see jobs disappear and you’ll continue to see the government involved in your underwear, toothpaste and career choices.

It’s your own damn fault you ‘I’m so stupid I need somebody to protect me from my own dumb decisions’ scum-bag losers. Pull your damn pants up, buy dinner instead of a tattoo, and eat your failures like a real human being.

You miss the point entirely. BFL have behaved illegally. Are you telling us that BFL should be above the law just because they are "innovating" in a risky market space? The law says, they must provide refunds and they cannot remove that right in a contract.

BFL appear to be being greedy, because they want to keep all their pre-order swag and avoid their responsibility. They also lied again and again to con people into waiting and waiting. Oh, we're fools for believing them, but now after all this..... remember the multiple times Josh said they'd have ALL orders shipped by end of Sept? How on earth will that happen - they publish their order queues and clearly they are not going to even meet that target.

They are just greedy. That greed will get them into trouble in the end.

There's no conspiracy, it's just BFL's greed and dishonourable and illegal conduct. If people have had enough of the abuse, they are within their rights to appeal to the laws which are made to protect against this. If you are seriously telling us that we have no rights because it's a risky new business, that it somehow makes it OK for BFL to stamp over the rules set down for fair trade and consumer protection, that somehow it is unreasonable to expect fair, decent and honourable legal trade then I dont know what else to say.
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September 02, 2013, 04:51:24 PM
Last edit: September 02, 2013, 05:29:03 PM by Xian01
 #54

There are many, many folks who would love to see BFL and their customers removed from the bitcoin mining scene. These folks are joined by those who just realized that a 4.5GH/S miner is not a ticket to a private jet and finally, there are those drama queens who simply love being in a state of high dungeon.

These are the folks who cut a path of havoc and destruction through anything and everything involving risk and innovation.  These risk-taking would-be ‘financial investors’ turn to ‘idiot protection’ programs such as the FTC and state AGs when they discovered risk was spelled RISK and actually had a meaning in the dictionary.

Well these proud little losers, bragging all day and all night on these forums about how badly they have been mistreated, want their money back before their product ships. Those who already have their miners are trying now to shutdown BFL before the other customers get their miners and then there are the drama queens who simply love to moan out loud how much they have been hurt by this mean old world.

Well, you perpetual children who have always used the power of government to intervene when losing your bets will probably be successful in damaging the rest of us. You’ll continue to reduce the GDP of your nations, you’ll continue to see jobs disappear and you’ll continue to see the government involved in your underwear, toothpaste and career choices.

It’s your own damn fault you ‘I’m so stupid I need somebody to protect me from my own dumb decisions’ scum-bag losers. Pull your damn pants up, buy dinner instead of a tattoo, and eat your failures like a real human being.


In this reality, people that get unwillingly screwed have options other than being bent over and taking it.
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