Can the Wall Street fat boys kill Bitcoin profits?

[thejaytiesto]

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures somehow contributed to the reason why bitcoim had a dip recently but those senior members are wrong when they said that it controls the whole cryptocurrency market. No one can gain total control ever crypto, even fat boys from wall street or even bill gates can't no matter how much money they spend. If they really did spend money in order to do that, crypto will only be controlled temporarily.

I think people are overrating the impact of the futures market in the actual bitcoin price. They are not trading the underlying, one some promises, this doesn't matter in bitcoin.

The pump we saw was due idiots FOMOing, and the dump we saw was due idiots panic selling. Idiots: people that see Bitcoin on the news but don't have any deeper thoughts about it and why it matters. I believe the market is at least 50% idiots at any rate, and these were the ones that pumped the price to the last peak and these are the ones that got shaken out in the last bottom.

If the price holds, I believe we may start going for an all time high in the next month again, this time, having shed all the previous idiots that are here to make some bucks but aren't here for the long term as they have no idea what they are buying.

You are right when you say that most of people that deal with bitcoin are not so deep into it, and knows nothing about it. But i think that has good sides too. Because if not for them price would not fluctuate so much, and we could not earn money from that fluctuation. I do not say that i would like to see price of bitcoin fluctuate forever, it would be even better if it stayed in one place (or not fluctuate so much) and we could start using bitcoin as an currency as its suppose to be used. In time people will see their mistakes, and everything will come to its place. Until than we can continue to make some small earnings from difference in price.

Fluctuations would happen no matter what, it just takes a single whale to decide to enter a position to pump the price or dump it, but yes, without all the idiots to push this initial movement into either direction would be way harder to create these situations of irrational FOMOing and irrational dumping, so we can take advantage of it.

The problem is we can't never know when a top is a top and a bottom is a bottom, only guesstimate. It's a form of gambling eventually. I believe in buying dips and holding long term, never selling. Guessing tops is too difficult. Even if you buy what was looking like a bottoming dip and it goes 3000 points lower, it will eventually rebound above your entry price, long term BTC is going only higher, so why risk losing your position selling and having to deal with endless KYC exchange nonsense to boot.

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[Carlsen]

I have read that about some vague concerns because bitcoin futures are settled in cash.
It might be possible for investors to push around the futures contracts at the close simply by aggressively buying and selling.

In the end, holding the contract from the opening to the close was a losing proposition. These contracts opened for bidding at $20,000 on Decemebr 10th.
But on Tuesday, bitcoin was sitting right around 10000$, a fall of 50 percent.

[omonuyak]

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

I have think along this line for quite some time and I think they can actually determine the price of bitcoin and already they have started that already. If we should be truth to ourself we would all agree that futures has affected bitcoin price and crypto currencies in particular very well and the wallstreet guys are going to use this strategy to control bitcoin price.

[Gregoryxl]

This may be true, since most of the people who enter the world of cryptocurrencies did so after learning of the great rise that btc had in its fluctuation, but if then nobody wants to invest after all the restrictions that it has received in the last days is because of the fear that the other cryptocurrencies will also be sanctioned.

[fiulpro]

That seems like so true because we all are experiencing the dip of a kind that we never saw before , but over should remember that whatever they did was in fist and had no direct effect on the bitcoins and it controlled bitcoins till a part only because over must remember that they don't own bitcoins nor do they own such a big part of it that it can be influenced to the extent that could prove detrimental.

[Eternu]

I have read that about some vague concerns because bitcoin futures are settled in cash.
It might be possible for investors to push around the futures contracts at the close simply by aggressively buying and selling.

I don't know where you have read about that, but know that not everything on the internet is truth, and sometime its only part truth. Buying and selling bitcoin aggressively can have effect on its price, but in that case we talk about insanely big sums of coins and money. No one is insane enough to invest their money just to lose it on lowering bitcoins price, that would be bad investment.

In the end, holding the contract from the opening to the close was a losing proposition. These contracts opened for bidding at $20,000 on Decemebr 10th.
But on Tuesday, bitcoin was sitting right around 10000$, a fall of 50 percent.

I don't know of which contract you speak off, but so far we have seen that if you hold your bitcoins for longer terms you will made positive profit for sure. When we talk about dumping of bitcoin and lowering its price we must know that it happens from time to time. Because it is only natural to assume that fall of price is coming after tremendous rise in its price. In that moment price of bitcoin had risen from around $9000 to $16000+ in like less than two weeks, and that is really fast even for bitcoin. Now you can see why we could expect drop after that fast rising. Also we must not forget newbie holders who sell when they see even smallest drop in its price. All serious investors who know how things work in bitcoins world, could see drop coming and would make calculated move to sell or hold. Bitcoin is not as simple as you said, its not just ups and downs.

[G2z_Riya]

Wall street boys were big whales. This will let the market get manipulated with the moves and the wall street boys gain the best profit out of it. The large scale investment won't let them encounter loss, but the moves that make will cause drastic changes with the common users holdings.

[p i e c e]

It has just been a month since Bitcoin futures was launched by CME. Is the current variations in Bitcoin price a result of this? It's quite difficult to say. There are contradictory views, people who see Bitcoin futures as a mainstream approach and the others who believe it might have a negative impact on the Bitcoin market, manipulation/shorting. The dynamics of Bitcoin economics is different from other assets/derivatives, a new asset class, so IMO, maybe in short-term big Wall Street players might be able to influence the price, but in the long-term there are a lot of factors involved.

They have been trying to let people know that Bitcoin does not have any value. Funny that most of them keep BTC. Bitcoin has many millions of supporters and followers, so Wall Street guys cannot change anything.

[orkoso]

It has just been a month since Bitcoin futures was launched by CME. Is the current variations in Bitcoin price a result of this? It's quite difficult to say. There are contradictory views, people who see Bitcoin futures as a mainstream approach and the others who believe it might have a negative impact on the Bitcoin market, manipulation/shorting. The dynamics of Bitcoin economics is different from other assets/derivatives, a new asset class, so IMO, maybe in short-term big Wall Street players might be able to influence the price, but in the long-term there are a lot of factors involved.

They have been trying to let people know that Bitcoin does not have any value. Funny that most of them keep BTC. Bitcoin has many millions of supporters and followers, so Wall Street guys cannot change anything.

Have you been following the news lately? The futures on bitcoin have already changed the panorama. The current descending / flat tendency of many alts is in connection with the big boys.

[krigger]

No wall street boys wont be able to kill bitcoin.

[Julia_KA]

No wall street boys wont be able to kill bitcoin.

Instead they will do their best to make profit on it. They actually already are. So totally not in their interest to kill it but to tame it 

[vidprab5]

Wall street boys were big whales. This will let the market get manipulated with the moves and the wall street boys gain the best profit out of it. The large scale investment won't let them encounter loss, but the moves that make will cause drastic changes with the common users holdings.

The real game is always played by the big whales. The market is influenced by their moves because they make investments in real large amounts. Big investors are the reason behind the change in value of anything. Small investors have negligible rather zero effect on digital market. Everyone tries to mold the situation in such a way that he gets the most benefit. Whales do that and there is nothing wrong in it.

[Hui8]

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Its not possible for them to kill the profits of bitcoin because there is no bridge between the two worlds. They will always keep their assets limited to the real world trading and won't waste a penny on the crypto currencies. Why do you think they will go and waste their times in the crypto if they are having million dollar hand in the Wall Street itself.

But if we just imagine that they thought to buy lots of bitcoin and then dump the whole thing for cheap then I'm sure they can do it in the first place and thus taking out all the fun out of it. 

So the effects would be disastrous according to me and lets hope they don't interfere with our business and keep the Wall Street dollar bill of themselves only.

[orkoso]

No wall street boys wont be able to kill bitcoin.

Instead they will do their best to make profit on it. They actually already are. So totally not in their interest to kill it but to tame it 

Yep, that is my view too, they will use a highly leveraged weapon such as the futures to dominate the underlying asset. Bitcoin now is in different hands I think

[DaftAjax]

Wall street boys were big whales. This will let the market get manipulated with the moves and the wall street boys gain the best profit out of it. The large scale investment won't let them encounter loss, but the moves that make will cause drastic changes with the common users holdings.

To be honest, mate you don't make any sense. What do you know about wall street boys? And who are these wall street boys on the first place? In my knowledge about people in wall street, they're those people that knows everything what to do in order for them to have lots of profit. Also that's not enough reason and mean that they're also whales.

The big there is redundant by the way. I mean whales are already big.

This may be true, since most of the people who enter the world of cryptocurrencies did so after learning of the great rise that btc had in its fluctuation, but if then nobody wants to invest after all the restrictions that it has received in the last days is because of the fear that the other cryptocurrencies will also be sanctioned.

After learning? Well who said that the whales are from the wall street, you might want to enlighten us with this, like an article maybe? I know that they are the biggest investors and spenders but, how did you knew?

And what about restriction? The only thing that worry us is that, the number of countries that bans cryptocurrencies increase.

[Vatimins]

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

     Well, the reason as to why you have been seeing a lot about it lately is because it is a possibility that we can never really ignore. Although those things that you have been reading are just speculations, they really can do happen. Considering the amount of money and power that these Wall Street whales possess, they can pretty much do almost everything or whatever they want if they ever decided that they actually wanted to do so. Yes, it may be something that we normal people can only see in movies, but we cannot deny fact that truly, money does make anyone who has a lot of it be able to have access to things that most people are restricted, have greater privileges, bend the law, and so much more. Which is why I think that this speculation is pretty logical since money is the main thing that runs the crypto world. But no matter what happens, I really don't think there will be anything that can stop me from being in the crypto world. Not unless it becomes illegal or becomes an exchange for my life of course. lol

[tannerchum]

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

Futures somehow contributed to the reason why bitcoim had a dip recently but those senior members are wrong when they said that it controls the whole cryptocurrency market. No one can gain total control ever crypto, even fat boys from wall street or even bill gates can't no matter how much money they spend. If they really did spend money in order to do that, crypto will only be controlled temporarily.

They may not control but if they hold majority of the cryptocurrency, they could become a big factor on how bitcoin would scatter around the globe. Because the lesser bitcoin your have the more you would adjust on transactions and more likely to be frustrated by the underground rules of cryptocurrency.

Recently the value of cryptocurrencies is going low but it doesn't mean it was controlled but that is his process. They cannot kill easily bitcoin because it is in demand and the process is in progress because we can determine the value of bitcoin to peoples life.

[trickyriky]

I have read some posts and comments by senior members related on how the futures on Bitcoin are controlling the whole crypto-currencies market. Do you understand the effects? What your view?

They can just create silly fuss around Bitcoin. Some people will believe them and rush to sell BTC. It might be a negative effect.

[BTG-BTC]

I am convinced that yes future bitcoin contracts were created solely to better control it

[LeroyMxaon]

In recent years the entry of the mainstream world of finance into bitcoin and the cryptocurrency market in general has been eagerly awaited, with the hope that it will inject a greater liquidity into this incipient ecosystem. But futures contracts that are now registered from Wall Street, can be used to speculate, since these futures are not simple contracts between sellers and buyers but they are listed on open markets and anyone can buy and sell them. For example, if an analyst thinks that coffee is going to shoot up in price and futures are low, he can buy them to sell when the market gives him the reason.