DefaultTrust (DT) Network - DT1/2 Members

[HodorHodl]

Fun Fact for you, friend: This means that 20 out of 100 are tagged unfairly.

How did you get this number?

"80 of them think the feedback isn't fair because they can't participate in signature campaigns anymore" ≠ 20 of them were unfairly tagged. There isn't even any logical sense in your statement.

He's abusing it. And you only need to look at the top 20 topics on the Meta board to have proof.

Selection bias. The loudest ones will complain. And they're usually shitposters.

So where did the 80% number come from? No logical sense to that either. I have extrapolated shit from shit. Not hiding it. Go back to the source, though.

Where do you get your "usually" from, by the way? It's your opinion?

In that case, it's no more valid that my opinion that you're full of shit.

[Vod]

You sit there with your title of Legendary member - legendary for what? Posting shite for a long time?

And then you lie back and allow this forum to turn into a fucking despotic bro-fest?

That is exactly the problem.  People think DT members are staff.  We don't get paid.  We are under no obligation to do your work. 

[Scam Exposey]

But wait how does actmyname enter on DT network? Does he/she do any good contribution on this furom? Or he became DT Just for the fact that he his turn coat, sticking, praising, agree what DT says and make his name beautiful his his sponsor.

[HodorHodl]

You sit there with your title of Legendary member - legendary for what? Posting shite for a long time?

And then you lie back and allow this forum to turn into a fucking despotic bro-fest?

That is exactly the problem.  People think DT members are staff.  We don't get paid.  We are under no obligation to do your work.  

I am aware you're not staff. I am also aware you don't get paid.....

....well, except by benefiting from promoting discussing cryptocurrency, which is what this board was set up to do, right?

I mean, had it remained unheard of, there'd be a few less arrogant millionaires here, hmm?

The recent surge in popularity is going to bring new members. Many of them are going to be from countries that do not have English as their first language. And surprise, surprise, you do NOT have a child board for every language. NOR is it OK of you to expect people to not ask newbie questions until they "go learn english".

And what work are you talking about? I am not trying to do work here?

[Vod]

And what work are you talking about? I am not trying to do work here?

The forum does not have automatic measures to place negative trust.

People PM me and ask for help. I need to investigate and make a conclusion.

I call that work, even though I am not being paid.  Some of these investigations can take a while.    :/

[Welsh]

But wait how does actmyname enter on DT network? Does he/she do any good contribution on this furom? Or he became DT Just for the fact that he his turn coat, sticking, praising, agree what DT says and make his name beautiful his his sponsor.

People are normally added by merit. Not only that but DefaultTrust members have to be active and have made contributions towards the trust system, for example leaving trust on accounts. It's also beneficial that the DefaultTrust members have unique trust lists and aren't just listing the same people.

You don't get on the DefaultTrust by agreeing with existing members on it. We've had many disagreements in the past and for certain not everyone on the list agrees with the current situation going on with the negatives for spammers. I will say though, generally the members which are on the list are rational when leaving trust.

The recent surge in popularity is going to bring new members. Many of them are going to be from countries that do not have English as their first language. And surprise, surprise, you do NOT have a child board for every language. NOR is it OK of you to expect people to not ask newbie questions until they "go learn english".

Try finding trustworthy members willing to put in the work to moderate those sections for every single local language out there. It's simply not possible. There is a section for people who speak a language which hasn't got a dedicated board though and if there are enough activity of that language theymos normally tries and finds a moderator suitable for it and make it a dedicated board.

[EcuaMobi]

I really think DT system should be used to prevent people from scamming (or make it a little more difficult at least).

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.
While it would be fair to tag shitposters somehow and stop them, it's certainly not fair to put both them and scammers in the same group.
Scamming or trying to scam is definitely worst than spamming.

Maybe leaving a neutral to users with extreme poor post quality would help? I guess signature managers would have to place some rules about those neutrals besides the current negative ones.

[Vod]

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.

I agree.  I only tag accounts as shitposters if it is obvious to even the brain dead fool.  All one or less liners, no contribution to the post.

To date, I have left negative feedback for 61 shitposters, and most, if not all, have never complained about it.

[Bachelorrd]

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.

I agree.  I only tag accounts as shitposters if it is obvious to even the brain dead fool.  All one or less liners, no contribution to the post.

To date, I have left negative feedback for 61 shitposters, and most, if not all, have never complained about it.

I have seen your TRUST feedbacks and it seems very fair to me. No sign of being an obvious racism or whatsoever. The problem with tagging is that instead of giving a lesson and CLEAR REASON as to why he/she is being tagged, it is now being portrayed as a hatred to the 3rd world, which I don't totally agree.

*Edit: I have encountered a few people (not from this forum) that came from English Speaking Countries yet their English is more worse and than any of those who came from 3rd World.

[actmyname]

I really think DT system should be used to prevent people from scamming (or make it a little more difficult at least).

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.

Actually, this was one of the things I was thinking about after the addition to DefaultTrust. A sort of 'dilution' in terms of the impact of red trust. Though I agree to a certain point that tagging should be reserved for scammers (and particularly bad spammers) I believe that there has to be something to properly act as a deterrent to spam.

Perhaps we should discuss this and come to a compromise.

Maybe leaving a neutral to users with extreme poor post quality would help? I guess signature managers would have to place some rules about those neutrals besides the current negative ones.

Perhaps, but a neutral feedback is going to be overlooked far more than a negative one.

[Scam Exposey]

I really think DT system should be used to prevent people from scamming (or make it a little more difficult at least).

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.
While it would be fair to tag shitposters somehow and stop them, it's certainly not fair to put both them and scammers in the same group.
Scamming or trying to scam is definitely worst than spamming.

Maybe leaving a neutral to users with extreme poor post quality would help? I guess signature managers would have to place some rules about those neutrals besides the current negative ones.

Very true, It's so hard to why those one end up on those since scamming is I think the main reason why DT network has been build on. Neutral trust is indeed the besy solution for that since It's so hard to build those account and those shitty one sided minded guys just  red tag it and ruined those guys up.

Shit posting can be corrected, But scamming will not so they should have different criteria.


And this current issue is sort of abuse.

[Ziskinberg]

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.

I agree.  I only tag accounts as shitposters if it is obvious to even the brain dead fool.  All one or less liners, no contribution to the post.

To date, I have left negative feedback for 61 shitposters, and most, if not all, have never complained about it.

That's fair, being a DT requires you to be professional and set some standards based on the forum rules, what actmyname did was that he is painting red for most accounts here in the forum whom he think are abusing the forum doing some shitposting for money. I may not be fluent in speaking English but I believe I can contribute to the forum as my worlds are understandable. I want to call the attention of actmyname to please review the accounts you tagged so you will not be called by some members that you were abusing trust.

Actually, based on the definition of negative rating as per forum guideline it means "You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer." which I think I does not fit to the rating he gave, in fact in my experience, I have  successful transaction with "minerjones" ,"hilariousandco ", and "AT101ET", these people are trustworthy and I don't think they will transact with me if I am a scammer or untrustworthy.

Lastly, let us be objective, please think twice before making a decision as it's your reputation is at risk here since you are a DT and maybe some would think those who choose you to as DT has low standard which in overall will affect the forum's reputation. You should be focus more on people who are scamming than focusing on shitposters as your definition with your own judgment, let the staff do their job as they have the appropriate power to do so.

I  think that you are being bias here because you are wearing signature and you are also making money from it, so how can we expect that you are not making it for your self interest to minimize the competition.

[ImHash]

But wait how does actmyname enter on DT network? Does he/she do any good contribution on this furom? Or he became DT Just for the fact that he his turn coat, sticking, praising, agree what DT says and make his name beautiful his his sponsor.

Forum not furom
I have a neutral feed back from Yahoo campaign manager, Recently it was mentioned by Jamal another campaign manager, He got tagged himself after rejecting me for having that feed back was it karma or a random accident?
A good campaign manager should see and care for the neutral feed back.

[Lauda]

I really think DT system should be used to prevent people from scamming (or make it a little more difficult at least).

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.

I disagree. The whole point of the feedback, even now, is that you read what it is about. Certain negative feedback can be safely ignored if you want to deal with someone.

[Bachelorrd]

I really think DT system should be used to prevent people from scamming (or make it a little more difficult at least).

If we leave negative trust to shitposters I think people can end up ignoring the feedback left to scammers/untrustworthy users.

I disagree. The whole point of the feedback, even now, is that you read what it is about. Certain negative feedback can be safely ignored if you want to deal with someone.

Not likely if you're a Buyer/Seller. The Red Marking can easily discourage potential customer whom I think is too busy/lazy to read all the feedbacks.

[unyil]

Why do members of DT not respond quickly to complaints from users who have a red trust like me?

DT members are basically just users of this community that are trusted by theymos or the various DT1 members. They are not held to any different set of rules or requirements because they are not admins or mods of this forum, they do not get paid, and they really do not have any obligation to respond to you at all. Your chances of being responded to are reduced quite a bit when you are red from negative feedback by other DT members.

Yes I know about it, DT members work volunteers.
But to my confusion, lauda has commented on my thread but he did not spill red ink, he suggested me to see the donation address of VOD, you can see his comments here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2642277.msg27304343#msg27304343, Lauda says she does not have a donation address like that. dear lauda, if you want to get paid for your work pour red ink, then just say, you do not need to be hypocritical over all your attitude. DT members have give the red trust on me has assumed I was a bribe, but he instead advised me to bribe members of DT for my wishes to can be granted. Is not that a subtle crime committed by DT members like lauda?

[|Admiral|]

People get quite and goes to long sleep after getting a DT position ( Most Usually) , only one member that i have ever seen popping out even in bad conditions is Lauda. Only one thing i appreciated about hilariousandco is supporting Lauda, he is a true Member here.

Recently DT system is Just a cleaning crew as mentioned by Ibminer or at least going in that direction. But i still believe in DT system as they have potential to ward of scams.

[Scam Exposey]

People get quite and goes to long sleep after getting a DT position ( Most Usually) , only one member that i have ever seen popping out even in bad conditions is Lauda. Only one thing i appreciated about hilariousandco is supporting Lauda, he is a true Member here.

Recently DT system is Just a cleaning crew as mentioned by Ibminer or at least going in that direction. But i still believe in DT system as they have potential to ward of scams.

I disagree with your though's since I think Lauda is doing great for imposing his will here although he made something wrong from the past but he is not so abusive regarding for putting some bad trust on anyone on just one blink of an eye. Those new DT members are the one who's doing some shit right now and for their early days of becoming a DT they abuse it well and they doesn't separate those scam tags and shit tags.

Feel pity for those people who simply live a simple life here and wrecked by those jackals.

[Lauda]

People get quite and goes to long sleep after getting a DT position ( Most Usually) , only one member that i have ever seen popping out even in bad conditions is Lauda. Only one thing i appreciated about hilariousandco is supporting Lauda, he is a true Member here.

Recently DT system is Just a cleaning crew as mentioned by Ibminer or at least going in that direction. But i still believe in DT system as they have potential to ward of scams.

I disagree with your though's since I think Lauda is doing great for imposing his will here..

What exactly is that will? A cleaner and safer Bitcointalk? Damn that Lauda..

[LoyceV]

~ However, the potential for abusing this and/or the DT system turning into a sort of "good ol' boys club" would be my fear.

DT-members are very divided in their views, look for example at the red trust some of them have given to other DT-members recently.
On the one hand it just looks bad that the most trusted people on this forum can't seem to agree, but on the other hand it shows it's not a "good old boys club" that protects eachother.

I'm interested in hearing other opinions & thoughts on this.

I've seen people get tagged red for much less than massive spamming. And although I'd prefer to just see all spammers who don't contribute anything in their posts banned, a red tag seems to have almost the same result: spam flourished for so long because it was barely punished, and it should get less when it doesn't pay anymore.
The fear of red trust could even stop some people from spamming when they create the next account, but many shitposters are too uneducated to improve much.

I feel as if it will only be a matter of time before a number of campaigns will simply adapt to this and remove the "No red trust" rule, which will ultimately result in a lot of time being wasted and leaving the trust system even more broken/misused then it is right now.

I had the same thought yesterday, this could combat it:

Another thought: how about disabling signatures for anyone with enough red trust on DT2?

Back to my own opinion: I appreciate the worst spammers getting tagged, but I wouldn't tag them by myself. I highly appreciate SMAS, and I made my own blacklist to safe me time if I run a campaign again.