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Author Topic: DefaultTrust (DT) Network - DT1/2 Members  (Read 1657 times)
HodorHodl
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January 24, 2018, 07:57:39 PM
 #81

Remove your comment, regain a tiny bit of dignity, and I'll remove this quote. You might still be able to salvage some sort of goodwill.
You're a cute leftist.
Ohhh, we're editing back in more insults, are we? Awesome!
~snip~
Can you two lovebirds take this to a dedicated reputation thread?

Sure thing. I'm not interested in derailing this thread with personal insults. But his/her/its remark needed to be addressed.

Completely happy to move the "discussion" into a thread seperately.....if Lauda wants to take on someone who's not afraid of the Legendary tag.

Expected response from Lauda: "You couldn't handle me, honey"....or some such trash.
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ibminer
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January 24, 2018, 07:58:21 PM
 #82

LOL. Have you been blind? As ibminer said this had been a show of "good ol' boys club".

Using my best judgement with the information I currently have, there is no hard evidence or proof of this happening now. I have fears of it growing into this issue. If anything like that is happening now, I'd guess it's on a small scale. It seems obvious there are at least like-minded thoughts that exists with a group of DT members, but that doesn't necessarily prove a "club" exists. I'll admit part of my fears stemmed from the fact that this like-minded group appeared to be originating from one DT member, then I saw the comment about a sanctioning by "upper-level DT members", so I've been curious where this comes from and wanted to see who else may support it.

The main question that I have to anyone that is opposed to tagging spammers, what solution to you propose instead?

I would suggest leaving neutral feedback starting with "Spammer" or whatever word we agree on, and ask signature managers to disallow users with that trust.

From an advertisers perspective, I assume a lot of them do not care about the post quality, it's just getting their advertisement shown as many times in as many places as possible. They know that red flagged users on this forum are not seen as trusted and carry a high chance of having their advertisement ignored or seen as a scam, so it more aggressively eliminates a piece of their audience.

Leaving neutral feedback probably will not solve anything, those managers will probably just allow the accounts with neutral because they are not going to eliminate as many viewers as a red account, and I find it unlikely that most of the campaign managers would take the time to look through to see neutral feedbacks.

Again, I can't say I'm opposed to the idea of DT tagging spammers assuming admins/mods can't handle it and need help, but I do feel like there is a higher potential for abuse and too many blurred lines on what could be considered a quality post. Some are obvious, others will be controversial
...the potential for racketeering comes to mind.



**And no, this thread was not intended to be a Lauda or The Pharmacist reputation thread.  Roll Eyes

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Wapinter
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January 24, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
 #83

I believe we should not treat a spammer and a scammer alike.I am in favour of "neutral feedback with the label "Spammer"as proposed by EcuaMobi.If spammers are given negative feedback,we will soon have dearth of signature participants.I dont mean to say,we should allow spammers but we can have some warning system in place.That said,I express my willingness to accept the unanimous decision on this and am ready to follow SMAS guidelines for all my campaigns if that helps

DarkStar_alt
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January 24, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
 #84

I believe we should not treat a spammer and a scammer alike.I am in favour of "neutral feedback with the label "Spammer"as proposed by EcuaMobi.If spammers are given negative feedback,we will soon have dearth of signature participants.I dont mean to say,we should allow spammers but we can have some warning system in place.That said,I express my willingness to accept the unanimous decision on this and am ready to follow SMAS guidelines for all my campaigns if that helps

The "best" campaign manager allows spammers in his campaigns  Shocked

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For any inquires, I'd prefer if you PMed my normal account (DarkStar_) for a faster response.
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January 24, 2018, 10:34:41 PM
Merited by Lutpin (2), ibminer (1), zmkriel (1)
 #85

Ok, giving my 2 cents here now.

Do I agree with all these spammers accounts being tagged? Yes, but not in the capacity it has become. We tried a less aggressive response with the SMAS list and it did nothing. Users were still allowed to join other campaigns from managers who didn't give a damn about SMAS list. Users themselves didn't care about being put on SMAS list or getting a neutral tag as it didn't stand out.

Now all the sudden The Pharmacist and Actmyname are made DT and boom over 1000 tags(real numbers) stand out. Now these guys care cause the tag can be seen by all and they are kicked from campaigns. We are also seeing a billion threads made against these 2 guys from users wanting feedback removed.

I can see where people have a problem with the tags as neg rep is meant to stop scammers.

So, what is or could be the solution?

Just leaving a neutral will not deter them from spamming. There needs to be a more aggressive way other then a neutral because the users just wont care. If it doesn't stand out then they're gonna keep doing it.

I see these "copper member" tags and such. Why can't we create a committee(if anyone even wants to be on it) and hand out spammer tags in that space? It's still basically SMAS but with a tag that's seen by all. This would keep their trust clean but still have a tag in top left corner of the users posts. Manager's can decide whether to allow those users in a campaign or not. Or to only allow xx amount of those users in campaigns. Hell we could also devalue those accounts a little and offer lower rates. Losing money is a big motivator to these users that are getting tagged.

Just some of my thoughts. I can be on board with whatever system is put in place. I just feel whatever is done it needs to be done across the board. EVERYONE needs to be on board. Something else that needs to be looked at is there needs to be requirements to become a campaign manager. I know it's supposed to be a freelancer thing but too many irresponsible or incompetent users doing the job now and contributing to the problem

Lutpin
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January 24, 2018, 10:39:26 PM
Last edit: January 24, 2018, 11:04:03 PM by Lutpin
Merited by ibminer (1)
 #86

It seems theymos just crashed this whole discussion with the newly introduced merit system.
I'd say we wait for what the full announcement about that is.
There is the announcement thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0



Discussion thread for reference:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818066.0

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Wapinter
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January 24, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
 #87

I believe we should not treat a spammer and a scammer alike.I am in favour of "neutral feedback with the label "Spammer"as proposed by EcuaMobi.If spammers are given negative feedback,we will soon have dearth of signature participants.I dont mean to say,we should allow spammers but we can have some warning system in place.That said,I express my willingness to accept the unanimous decision on this and am ready to follow SMAS guidelines for all my campaigns if that helps

The "best" campaign manager allows spammers in his campaigns  Shocked
Lets us not accuse each other and stick to the topic of thread.I have openly expressed my willingness to extend full co-operation to fight spam

notaek
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January 25, 2018, 03:28:13 AM
Merited by Scorpion (1)
 #88

With the introduction of "Merit" system, I think there is no need for tagging spammers anymore. Campaigns will thereby implement a minimum requirement of merit points needed, apart from their respective ranks to be able to join.

Campaign managers can start with these numbers:

RankRequired merit points to join a campaign
Jr Member5 (There's no point accepting Jr. Members though)
Member15
Full Member105
Sr. Member255
Hero Member505
Legendary1005

Viper1
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January 25, 2018, 03:37:15 AM
Merited by ibminer (1)
 #89

Here's the deal. People who I tag consistently post garbage. Will I say that the post hilariousandco was an amazing post? Fuck no.

It's bordering on irrelevant. The sarcasm was used to half-answer a question and poke fun at someone. But am I going to give him a negative trust for it? Not really.

The quality of his other posts counteracts that. However, in the case of all the spammers that I have tagged, the quality is the same: a big ol' lump of diarrhea.

Didn't know people were allowed to use Trust to rate people for their posts. Until I read this post.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2819050.0

I looked at that guys posts and I don't see this "in the case of all the spammers that I have tagged, the quality is the same: a big ol' lump of diarrhea.". All I see is just a typical user having a variety of discussions with people.

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January 25, 2018, 04:02:38 AM
Merited by ibminer (1)
 #90

I looked at that guys posts and I don't see this "in the case of all the spammers that I have tagged, the quality is the same: a big ol' lump of diarrhea.". All I see is just a typical user having a variety of discussions with people.
First off, that's an old rating.

Secondly, I'm not taking it off. Do you know why? Go ahead and look through those two-liner tiny posts after the most recent two (which are way longer than his regular posts). If you need a link, here: https://archive.is/5lkD1

If you're simply repeating what someone said 2 pages ago, what's the point? Why even bother? You're not contributing to anything. And you certainly shouldn't treat signature campaigns like a job.
With the introduction of "Merit" system, I think there is no need for tagging spammers anymore. Campaigns will thereby implement a minimum requirement of merit points needed, apart from their respective ranks to be able to join.

Campaign managers can start with these numbers:

RankRequired merit points to join a campaign
Jr Member5 (There's no point accepting Jr. Members though)
Member15
Full Member105
Sr. Member255
Hero Member505
Legendary1005
Will it really change that much, though? Once someone is at that mark of going up a rank who's to say they'll sustain a high post quality? Furthermore, how about the currently existing members that already have enough merit to get to those numbers easily?

(Such an amount would be susceptible to merit farming, where users could collude to send each other merit. Not much, maybe 1-2.)

I would personally put the number at halfway between the thresholds. That way it's less susceptible to abuse.

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January 25, 2018, 04:12:24 AM
Merited by ibminer (1)
 #91

I looked at that guys posts and I don't see this "in the case of all the spammers that I have tagged, the quality is the same: a big ol' lump of diarrhea.". All I see is just a typical user having a variety of discussions with people.
First off, that's an old rating.

Secondly, I'm not taking it off. Do you know why? Go ahead and look through those two-liner tiny posts after the most recent two (which are way longer than his regular posts). If you need a link, here: https://archive.is/5lkD1

If you're simply repeating what someone said 2 pages ago, what's the point? Why even bother? You're not contributing to anything. And you certainly shouldn't treat signature campaigns like a job.
I looked at about 2 months worth of his posts around that time frame and for the most part, just see regular stuff being posted. Frankly, a lot of his stuff had a hell of a lot more value than a lot of other people I see posting. But perhaps I don't understand this whole thing. i.e. you can post whatever you want even if it's completely worthless as long as you aren't part of a sig campaign. But if you are, then we'll apply some arbitrary standard to you that will vary from person to person who has this power over you.

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January 25, 2018, 05:28:16 AM
Merited by ibminer (1)
 #92

I looked at about 2 months worth of his posts around that time frame and for the most part, just see regular stuff being posted. Frankly, a lot of his stuff had a hell of a lot more value than a lot of other people I see posting.
Perhaps you're not seeing my point.

Suppose there is a thread with 50 pre-existing replies to it. The thread asks the question, "Where can I purchase bitcoin?". If someone states a well-known place to purchase bitcoin, what is the likelihood that it has not yet been mentioned in the other 50 replies? Not very high. So what would be the point of trying to argue that a post (regardless of the quality) contributes to the thread? It simply does not. There is no discussion.

Perhaps if the post has exceptional quality it can be justified but let's face it: those were general and vague remarks (which are probably repeated if you look at posts preceding it) are the 50+'th post.

But perhaps I don't understand this whole thing. i.e. you can post whatever you want even if it's completely worthless as long as you aren't part of a sig campaign. But if you are, then we'll apply some arbitrary standard to you that will vary from person to person who has this power over you.
Selection bias. Most of the users that I've tagged are in signature campaigns. Why? Because they post more. And by posting more (or feeling forced to post more, for monetary incentives) means that there's generally more spam. You're free to help me find spammers, signature or not. Send me a PM and I will take a look.

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