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ibminer
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August 26, 2013, 07:25:46 PM
 #21

Working on a few others, but ran out of time to work on them at the moment  Grin


--snip--

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Don't be obsessed with your desires. The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute... and a donut with no hole, is a Danish.' He was a funny guy.
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August 26, 2013, 07:45:28 PM
 #22

Well here are my attempts:

Quote
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Kashim
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August 26, 2013, 09:33:20 PM
 #23

PotatoBadger
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August 26, 2013, 09:53:02 PM
 #24

http://i.imm.io/1gdSl.png

http://i.imm.io/1gdSv.png
Mike Christ
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August 26, 2013, 10:41:38 PM
 #25

My vote's on Jan's design.

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August 26, 2013, 11:00:19 PM
 #26

My vote's on Jan's design.
Didn't realize we were voting... not too keen on the FL looking like an 'A', it looks good and all but not something I would want as a logo. But what do I know?

:-: Bitcointalk Public Information Project (BPIP) New stats, new reports, and a new design(done by me. Smiley)
Don't be obsessed with your desires. The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute... and a donut with no hole, is a Danish.' He was a funny guy.
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August 26, 2013, 11:02:01 PM
 #27

- snip -

TECSHARE
I think you think you are getting a better deal than you are. Spec work often results in problems for contractors as well. Do a search for USAGI on this forum for a good example of how it can go wrong. Additionally pissing off a bunch of your potential user base by exploiting them for cheap labor is not the way to go either. A note to designers, participating in this kind of spec work also devalues your own ability to get paid in other jobs. If someone could get 100 rubes to do it for free why would they pay you? I suggest that any self respecting designer should not participate in spec work.
TECSHARE
Thanks for your comments, but I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree & indeed now defend myself against your accusations;  
If I 'piss off a bunch of my potential user' base by them voluntarily deciding into a competition to redesign me a logo and losing, there's not much I can do about this. It's life.
As for 'exploiting them for cheap labour', I set a 2 BTC Bounty, which after looking around online freelancer sites & 99designs and such, $240 to me seemed like a fair/ good market rate for a new logo.
As as for 'exploiting' anybody, this is a peaceful, voluntary interaction. The word 'exploit' does not belong here.  
If you would kindly rescind those comments, I would obviously be most appreciate.

I will not, because it is true. A lot of designers work very hard spending years to study the field just to have their pay constantly devalued by people such as yourself scraping the bottom of the barrel and wasting more than a dozen peoples time because you don't want to pick one person to do the job. If you need some plumbing done do you call 12 plumbers and tell them the first one that gets it done right gets paid, and then not pay the rest? That's not how it works in the rest of the employment world, why is it ok for designers?

This is the same kind of prejudice applied to IT people on the job. Employers think is is a matter of punching a few keys and the computer does the rest. Easy peasy right? This kind of opinion comes purely from a place of ignorance, and you get what you pay for as demonstrated by the submissions so far (no offense guys I am sure you'd polish them up if he'd pay you). This kind of practice hurts ALL DESIGNERS CUMULATIVELY, and part of voluntarism is not causing harm to others, which you are. It is easy to support ideals when it costs you nothing.


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August 26, 2013, 11:59:11 PM
 #28

My vote's on Jan's design.
Didn't realize we were voting... not too keen on the FL looking like an 'A', it looks good and all but not something I would want as a logo. But what do I know?


You are always voting; when OP sees that, not only does he like the design, but others as well, he knows he has made the right decision, for that is what people will recognize on the site as something representative and memorable.  It's perfectly okay that you disagree with me, of course; I can see what you mean, but so long as the person knows that it's actually flibbr, the unusual connection doesn't make too big a deal.

snip

I have to agree with TECSHARE here; professional artists spend thousands of hours refining their skill, and 2 BTC is well worth the service that professionals on here will accept as payment for a logo; the contest, it seems, just dangles the BTC on a string and makes professionals and amateurs alike dance for it.  Certainly, if the only freelance work available to the artist are "contests", then that is what he has to do, but it's certainly not fun; at the core of the matter, it's free work for the client, sometimes without any guarantee that someone will be paid at all:

Quote
How will the winner be decided
Please submit your entries to this thread, I will review every few days .. etc, if there's none I like, then I am sorry, however if you've done something which I think really fits what I'm looking for then I'll let you know via PM and then announce the winner in the thread.

But to be frank, the artist who bites is just as well a fool, so I don't feel sorry for them, even if you do.

Imagine this scenario:

"I need a prostitute, but I'm not sure which one I might like.  Therefore, I will hold a contest to see which prostitute provides their service the best, but if I don't like any of you, sorry."

There isn't a prostitute in the world who would buy this.  Is the artist's time and effort worth less than a prostitute's?  Only if he allows it so.

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August 26, 2013, 11:59:58 PM
 #29

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August 27, 2013, 05:07:05 AM
 #30

- snip -

TECSHARE
I think you think you are getting a better deal than you are. Spec work often results in problems for contractors as well. Do a search for USAGI on this forum for a good example of how it can go wrong. Additionally pissing off a bunch of your potential user base by exploiting them for cheap labor is not the way to go either. A note to designers, participating in this kind of spec work also devalues your own ability to get paid in other jobs. If someone could get 100 rubes to do it for free why would they pay you? I suggest that any self respecting designer should not participate in spec work.
TECSHARE
Thanks for your comments, but I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree & indeed now defend myself against your accusations;  
If I 'piss off a bunch of my potential user' base by them voluntarily deciding into a competition to redesign me a logo and losing, there's not much I can do about this. It's life.
As for 'exploiting them for cheap labour', I set a 2 BTC Bounty, which after looking around online freelancer sites & 99designs and such, $240 to me seemed like a fair/ good market rate for a new logo.
As as for 'exploiting' anybody, this is a peaceful, voluntary interaction. The word 'exploit' does not belong here.  
If you would kindly rescind those comments, I would obviously be most appreciate.

I will not, because it is true. A lot of designers work very hard spending years to study the field just to have their pay constantly devalued by people such as yourself scraping the bottom of the barrel and wasting more than a dozen peoples time because you don't want to pick one person to do the job. If you need some plumbing done do you call 12 plumbers and tell them the first one that gets it done right gets paid, and then not pay the rest? That's not how it works in the rest of the employment world, why is it ok for designers?

This is the same kind of prejudice applied to IT people on the job. Employers think is is a matter of punching a few keys and the computer does the rest. Easy peasy right? This kind of opinion comes purely from a place of ignorance, and you get what you pay for as demonstrated by the submissions so far (no offense guys I am sure you'd polish them up if he'd pay you). This kind of practice hurts ALL DESIGNERS CUMULATIVELY, and part of voluntarism is not causing harm to others, which you are. It is easy to support ideals when it costs you nothing.


It's voluntary. He made an offer. Nobody is obligated to do any work for him. If they do, they do it voluntarily.

Side question: Do you support the Minimum Wage?
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August 27, 2013, 10:37:34 AM
 #31

I will not, because it is true. A lot of designers work very hard spending years to study the field just to have their pay constantly devalued by people such as yourself scraping the bottom of the barrel and wasting more than a dozen peoples time because you don't want to pick one person to do the job. If you need some plumbing done do you call 12 plumbers and tell them the first one that gets it done right gets paid, and then not pay the rest? That's not how it works in the rest of the employment world, why is it ok for designers?

Musicians have to audition, right?  They're giving you their work for free.

Artists live and work in a different realm than a lot of people.  Plumbing is not subjective.  Either the pipes are clogged or they aren't; you don't need to evaluate their work.

Sorry bud, but the market disagrees with you.  There are design artists that didn't spend a day in school studying design; they just know instinctively how to draw.  If they're good, they make money.  So there's a plus side too.  Plumbers have to know what they are doing.  They can't just doodle a drain unclogged in their spare time.
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August 27, 2013, 03:14:14 PM
 #32

Hello there and good luck to your web site.






BTC : 1Ct9opEdmq4ZuZmNQmhGBDcurrePFykTRt
LTC : LLqGtKpAdx6Ci8ZaSrvWG6WXfFF3mPK4V9
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August 27, 2013, 06:22:28 PM
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August 27, 2013, 07:21:00 PM
 #34

I will not, because it is true. A lot of designers work very hard spending years to study the field just to have their pay constantly devalued by people such as yourself scraping the bottom of the barrel and wasting more than a dozen peoples time because you don't want to pick one person to do the job. If you need some plumbing done do you call 12 plumbers and tell them the first one that gets it done right gets paid, and then not pay the rest? That's not how it works in the rest of the employment world, why is it ok for designers?

Musicians have to audition, right?  They're giving you their work for free.

Artists live and work in a different realm than a lot of people.  Plumbing is not subjective.  Either the pipes are clogged or they aren't; you don't need to evaluate their work.

Sorry bud, but the market disagrees with you.  There are design artists that didn't spend a day in school studying design; they just know instinctively how to draw.  If they're good, they make money.  So there's a plus side too.  Plumbers have to know what they are doing.  They can't just doodle a drain unclogged in their spare time.

You say my example is inadequate then make up an even more absurd one yourself? An audition is a SAMPLE. He is asking for THE ENTIRE JOB to be done FREE. Untrained designers in general produce shit, degrading not only the quality of the craft but the industry as a whole. If you aren't a designer you might not even know what is wrong with a design until you are trained. Sorry bud, but the market does lots of violent things to people, it doesn't make it correct, or even OK. I could stab you and steal your wallet, and technically that would be a market force, but I doubt you would side with the will of "market forces" on this one. Additionally, I find the activity in this thread to be extra onerous because it comes from some one who claims to be socially conscious.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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August 27, 2013, 08:34:16 PM
 #35

It's voluntary. He made an offer. Nobody is obligated to do any work for him. If they do, they do it voluntarily.

Side question: Do you support the Minimum Wage?

This right here. We made our submission, disliked how he ran it, pulled out. It's as simple as that. Nobody is going around murdering everyone who doesn't take part, so there's no real place for going on and on about how bad it is. Either you do it or you don't; it's as simple as that. In my case, I thought we'd be a good fit because he wanted something *custom*. I didn't realize he was simply asking for someone to type "Flibbr" into a word processor and flip through fonts to look for a nice one, XD.


 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




















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bigbeninlondon
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August 27, 2013, 08:48:03 PM
 #36

You say my example is inadequate then make up an even more absurd one yourself? An audition is a SAMPLE.
He is asking for THE ENTIRE JOB to be done FREE.

THE ENTIRE JOB is coloring a pretty picture.  Many people are willing to do that for free for the chance of making money.  Not everyone is willing to reach their hand into your poop on the chance of making money; they want a guarantee that touching poop will yield them profit.  There are people who are willing to draw for free, with only a chance at profit.  You are calling for them not to be willing to do that.  What makes you think you will be successful, or that your call is even warranted?

Untrained designers in general produce shit, degrading not only the quality of the craft but the industry as a whole. If you aren't a designer you might not even know what is wrong with a design until you are trained.


But you CAN make a design without training, and its value is subjective.  Plumbing is objective; either it works or it does not.  Not so with design.  One man may love a design that another man hates.  Therefore your analogy doesn't fit, regardless of whether my analogy to musicians fits or not.

Sorry bud, but the market does lots of violent things to people, it doesn't make it correct, or even OK. I could stab you and steal your wallet, and technically that would be a market force, but I doubt you would side with the will of "market forces" on this one. Additionally, I find the activity in this thread to be extra onerous because it comes from some one who claims to be socially conscious.

Violence is the antithesis of free markets.  Do you even know what the definition of free markets is?  Free markets are voluntary associations.  Stabbing me would not technically or practically be a market force because I did not consent to the stabbing. 

You are on your soap box, and it's unbecoming.  If you don't approve, don't participate.
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August 28, 2013, 12:41:15 AM
 #37

V1  Grin

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August 28, 2013, 02:33:26 AM
 #38

There are some sharp looking designs here, wow.

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August 28, 2013, 06:39:26 AM
 #39

its an modded font by me Smiley
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August 28, 2013, 07:06:54 AM
 #40

THE ENTIRE JOB is coloring a pretty picture.  Many people are willing to do that for free for the chance of making money.  Not everyone is willing to reach their hand into your poop on the chance of making money; they want a guarantee that touching poop will yield them profit.  There are people who are willing to draw for free, with only a chance at profit.  You are calling for them not to be willing to do that.  What makes you think you will be successful, or that your call is even warranted?


This is exactly the kind of ignorance and bias people have to justify this type of practice. Oooo its just coloring a little picture! A child could do it! Do you even realize how demeaning and disrespectful you sound? The whole of the work done to construct properly designed branding is not simply the final image you see but the research and composition time spent to get to the final arrangement. You can't quantify the total of the work done by looking at the single image.


But you CAN make a design without training, and its value is subjective.  Plumbing is objective; either it works or it does not.  Not so with design.  One man may love a design that another man hates.  Therefore your analogy doesn't fit, regardless of whether my analogy to musicians fits or not.

It's value is NOT subjective. If it was it would just be called ART not DESIGN. Design entails functional and targeted construction of something original, not just "coloring a pretty picture".

Violence is the antithesis of free markets.  Do you even know what the definition of free markets is?  Free markets are voluntary associations.  Stabbing me would not technically or practically be a market force because I did not consent to the stabbing.  

You are on your soap box, and it's unbecoming.  If you don't approve, don't participate.

Show me where I used the words "free market" please. You are arguing with yourself.

BITCOINTALK STAFF SELECTIVELY ENFORCE THE RULES IN AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A CHILL EFFECT AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE ME AND OTHERS FROM THIS FORUM AS RETALIATION FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THEIR ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, AND THAT OF THEIR PERSONAL CLIQUES.
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