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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 159756 times)
xBoxLive
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March 11, 2018, 01:13:20 AM
 #3521

https://web.archive.org/web/20180311002810/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg32023727#msg32023727
[—snip—]

Quote from: nullius
#917001 “xBoxLive” advocated buying and selling of merits, *and* simultaneously begged for merit.  FOR SHAME.  As the Latin etymology of the word implies, *merit* is to be EARNED.

This feedback is made consistently with my trust feedback policy:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3009256.0


#HIPPOCRITE COPPER MEMBER

Well, that’s amusing non sequitur.  It will probably remain all the moreso if I don’t ask you to explain the relevance of my Copper Membership.  Also amusing:

Quote from: xBoxLive
Don't like my opinions so they left me negative feedback. But they are the one that had to buy "Whitelist" or a title. #HIPPOCRITE

You don’t realize, I collect those petty little retaliations from petty little people.  I haven’t earned one in awhile.  Thanks.

It may help your writing if you were to buy a dictionary, and learn to spell the word “hypocrite”.  Also, if you were not stupid.  But that’s beside the point, given your reprehensible attitude.

The merit system has a dual purpose, positive and negative.  Its positive component is to reward people like me for making posts which others find valuable; the number below my name speaks for me on that point.  Its negative component is to chase snowflakes like you away from the forum, so that you don’t spoil it for others.  The system is doing its job, on both sides of the coin!



Edit to add:  *plonk*  (I believe these occasional public examples to be a social necessity; but now, there is nothing more to see here.)

You must be in the running for petty president eh as you so eloquently hypo-preached huh? But like assholes, everyone has one. I'll take your "Petty" neg and smile "Hippocrite"


And for the numbers below your name, all that does is show how much free time you have. #getajob or #Graduate

Don't know you to know which. But I'm sure you'll say whichever you feel like makes you matter in this world.
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SHBlizzard
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March 11, 2018, 04:14:41 AM
 #3522

in a lot of other forums (cars, electronics, sports) they sometimes call this +rep(utation), almost everyone (except brand new accounts) can +rep/"merit" any post, but it is not like a Unit where i have 4 sMerits to give and that is it until some one merits you. You have unlimited +reps but you can only give them 1 at a time (someone has a good post, you can give 1 +rep, s/he posts again you can give again 1+rep). Whereas here i can give all my sMerits to one person and then not have any for ages until someone decides to merit me.

IMO we should have something more similar to that (or a combination of some sort), having given out all of my 4 sMerits early on when they first launched, I have not been able to merit posts that perhaps deserved a merit since then. IMO the sMerit barrier is too high for newer of forum members. just my 2 cents  Roll Eyes

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CodyAlfaridzi
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March 11, 2018, 04:53:42 AM
 #3523

in a lot of other forums (cars, electronics, sports) they sometimes call this +rep(utation), almost everyone (except brand new accounts) can +rep/"merit" any post, but it is not like a Unit where i have 4 sMerits to give and that is it until some one merits you. You have unlimited +reps but you can only give them 1 at a time (someone has a good post, you can give 1 +rep, s/he posts again you can give again 1+rep). Whereas here i can give all my sMerits to one person and then not have any for ages until someone decides to merit me.

That system will be easily abused especially by account farmers who had hundreds of account. The reason why theymos choose to limit sMerit and carefully selecting some members as merit sources are to prevent such abuse. It successfully halts the account farmers but also creates a new problem: other genuine members having a hard time to rank up. I agree with your opinion, the merit in circulation right now is simply not enough in my opinion.
suchmoon
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March 11, 2018, 04:57:25 AM
 #3524

in a lot of other forums (cars, electronics, sports) they sometimes call this +rep(utation), almost everyone (except brand new accounts) can +rep/"merit" any post, but it is not like a Unit where i have 4 sMerits to give and that is it until some one merits you. You have unlimited +reps but you can only give them 1 at a time (someone has a good post, you can give 1 +rep, s/he posts again you can give again 1+rep). Whereas here i can give all my sMerits to one person and then not have any for ages until someone decides to merit me.

That system will be easily abused especially by account farmers who had hundreds of account. The reason why theymos choose to limit sMerit and carefully selecting some members as merit sources are to prevent such abuse. It successfully halts the account farmers but also creates a new problem: other genuine members having a hard time to rank up. I agree with your opinion, the merit in circulation right now is simply not enough in my opinion.

sMerit availability has been increased by ~50% to 17650 per month. Was ~12k previously.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=sources

usamamalik555
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March 11, 2018, 05:44:27 AM
 #3525

I can not find the answer to the most probably common question. Are smerits regenerated? I was very generous and distributed more than half of the merits, but how can I resume the number of smerits? for what merit are they renewed?
FlightyPouch
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March 11, 2018, 06:26:17 AM
 #3526

I can not find the answer to the most probably common question. Are smerits regenerated? I was very generous and distributed more than half of the merits, but how can I resume the number of smerits? for what merit are they renewed?

sMerits are not replenished unless you are a merit source.

If you will be wondering how will you get another sMerit to give then you must make posts that is worthy of merit, for every 2 merits you receive you will be getting 1 smerit. For members that is the only way you can get merit but if you want more, you can always apply for becoming a merit source.

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tsoyens01
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March 11, 2018, 06:32:05 AM
 #3527

I do not speak English well, but reading this thread I understand that the theymos did it right and whoever does not say it is the owner of the resource and dictates the rules if someone does not like the rules of the site, nobody keeps it there. those who remain on the site accept new rules and try to match them, but maybe newcomers (or those who are forced to develop their own account on a new basis) will not be able to rank higher, and what prevents you from striving for this, make quality records.
I honestly do not care about the merit system, I do not participate in ICO, I read the branches about the software for mining, because I myself have a bullet on the pool, and I keep my hand on the pulse. you can always learn something new, and then after some time later tell the newcomer about it.
when I came here as a novice, I knew nothing but nicehash, and now I work in the powershell and ruler as I need, I myself do executable files, and let me not be young already, but while I'm interested in this topic, I will study reading and mastering new items. Thanks to everyone who gives the right information
athanz88
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March 11, 2018, 01:22:12 PM
 #3528

Every people who only cares about rank probably joined the forum just to make money, because all they care the most is ranking up, that is the main and basic reason why they didnt get the merit normally, because they feel this system is too heavy thus render them too lazy to study and increase their quality.

Guess what? If you are newbie, you only need to score 1 merit daily to rank up normally. It is hard but not an impossible task in my opinion.


You must be in the running for petty president eh as you so eloquently hypo-preached huh? But like assholes, everyone has one. I'll take your "Petty" neg and smile "Hippocrite"


And for the numbers below your name, all that does is show how much free time you have. #getajob or #Graduate

Don't know you to know which. But I'm sure you'll say whichever you feel like makes you matter in this world.


Then why dont you follow his step and give more time to get those merits?

All you do is whining, only gives a little of your time and you want to get a lot of merits? Dont be a hypocrite. If you do the hard work you will get the results. It applies in every world, real world or internet world.
SergiuDemerji
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March 11, 2018, 05:40:34 PM
 #3529

I`m looking at this post it`s really amazing but i`m confused regarding the merit given for comments . It`s unfair what someone is writng a interesting post and is not receiving at least 1 merit and someone is writing a comment and receives 100 merit . This system is not working properly at all . Who is in charge regarding merit Huh I just what to share one of my post where i think i deserve at least 1 merit point .

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3103449.msg32045858#msg32045858

Very nice post i will repeat one more time but the system is not working properly Sad
xBoxLive
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March 11, 2018, 05:46:42 PM
 #3530

Every people who only cares about rank probably joined the forum just to make money, because all they care the most is ranking up, that is the main and basic reason why they didnt get the merit normally, because they feel this system is too heavy thus render them too lazy to study and increase their quality.

Guess what? If you are newbie, you only need to score 1 merit daily to rank up normally. It is hard but not an impossible task in my opinion.


You must be in the running for petty president eh as you so eloquently hypo-preached huh? But like assholes, everyone has one. I'll take your "Petty" neg and smile "Hippocrite"


And for the numbers below your name, all that does is show how much free time you have. #getajob or #Graduate

Don't know you to know which. But I'm sure you'll say whichever you feel like makes you matter in this world.


Then why dont you follow his step and give more time to get those merits?

All you do is whining, only gives a little of your time and you want to get a lot of merits? Dont be a hypocrite. If you do the hard work you will get the results. It applies in every world, real world or internet world.

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.
tekusa
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March 11, 2018, 06:24:18 PM
 #3531

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

Most of the people who are not here for signature campaigns need not bother about merits at all. The members who are not able to get merits and are thus not able to participate in bounties are the ones who are calling merit system a failure. Since, you primary purpose is to sell accounts here, why do you want a higher rank. You have already got sufficient relaxation in PMs and posting frequency as per your current rank. If you are providing good services or products and clients are happy, they will give positive trust to you and it will make your profile look more credible even without merits.
JayJuanGee
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March 11, 2018, 06:27:10 PM
 #3532

Every people who only cares about rank probably joined the forum just to make money, because all they care the most is ranking up, that is the main and basic reason why they didnt get the merit normally, because they feel this system is too heavy thus render them too lazy to study and increase their quality.

Guess what? If you are newbie, you only need to score 1 merit daily to rank up normally. It is hard but not an impossible task in my opinion.


You must be in the running for petty president eh as you so eloquently hypo-preached huh? But like assholes, everyone has one. I'll take your "Petty" neg and smile "Hippocrite"


And for the numbers below your name, all that does is show how much free time you have. #getajob or #Graduate

Don't know you to know which. But I'm sure you'll say whichever you feel like makes you matter in this world.


Then why dont you follow his step and give more time to get those merits?

All you do is whining, only gives a little of your time and you want to get a lot of merits? Dont be a hypocrite. If you do the hard work you will get the results. It applies in every world, real world or internet world.

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

You do not receive merit just because you happen to (hypothetically) be a good person (or a hard worker) outside of  the forum.  You get merit for your forum contributions and the perception of others regarding your posts, and you get negative perceptions, as you already experienced, when you attempt some nonsensical contrary principles to the merit system, and selling of merits is contrary to the whole concept of merit... and if you were a bit more insightful, you might have explored such topic in a more exploratory way, rather than attempting to impose and advocate for something that you either purposefully or conceptually don't seem to want to attempt to understand (except through attempting to apply your faulty analogies, which have already been pointed out to you through negative trust - thanks to nullius willing to spend some time in assessing the substance of your previous posts).

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
athanz88
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March 11, 2018, 06:28:21 PM
 #3533

Every people who only cares about rank probably joined the forum just to make money, because all they care the most is ranking up, that is the main and basic reason why they didnt get the merit normally, because they feel this system is too heavy thus render them too lazy to study and increase their quality.

Guess what? If you are newbie, you only need to score 1 merit daily to rank up normally. It is hard but not an impossible task in my opinion.

Snip


Then why dont you follow his step and give more time to get those merits?

All you do is whining, only gives a little of your time and you want to get a lot of merits? Dont be a hypocrite. If you do the hard work you will get the results. It applies in every world, real world or internet world.

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

I dont want to talk about the old system, it can not be talked anyomer since the systam has changed, and it will be irrelevant if we talk about past system with now system. But i want to ask you questions, one about past system,
1. do you think it is fair for people who did a good post and contribute a lot and focusing to 1 account (many users are like this and even if they have alt, they announced their alt) to rank up the at the same rate with the spammer?
2. Do you really think it is fair for people who does a good post and contributing a lot to rank up at the same rate as a litlle time spender like you?

The rank is there but it doesnt mean you can and should achieve it like it is your right. It is just like an education. It is your right as a human and must be given by your country, but it doesnt mean you can get into a high school or college or even class promotion in a school if you dont have the requirement for it, it is a privilege you should achieve.
Imagine if i dont have a good score and requirement to enter harvard and then i talk loudly that it is an unfair things, does it sound genius?

You should check on pinned thread on meta, as far as i know rank doesnt decide on how much you can post or how much time needed before you can post again, it is only decided by activity number.
suchmoon
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March 11, 2018, 06:47:23 PM
 #3534

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

If you only use the forum to sell stuff - why do you care about merit and rank?

xBoxLive
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March 11, 2018, 06:48:21 PM
 #3535

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

If you only use the forum to sell stuff - why do you care about merit and rank?



Thats really simple and a dump question both. Who will get more sales? Legendary vs Member
suchmoon
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March 11, 2018, 07:05:41 PM
 #3536

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

If you only use the forum to sell stuff - why do you care about merit and rank?

Thats really simple and a dump question both. Who will get more sales? Legendary vs Member

Member with green trust would probably get more sales than Legendary with red.

xBoxLive
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March 11, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
 #3537

I personally don't have the time to live on Bitcointalk.org. I work 50+ hours a week and login to bitcointalk.org about twice a day to sale misc goods. Now is this fair to me, or others like me, that we can't rank up because of this? Again, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. And I'm fairly sure you know mine. Point is, if Theymos can sell whitelist to be able to post more on Bitcointalk, then selling Merit Rank-ups should be no different.

If you only use the forum to sell stuff - why do you care about merit and rank?

Thats really simple and a dump question both. Who will get more sales? Legendary vs Member

Member with green trust would probably get more sales than Legendary with red.

Maybe. Thats hard to say without reliable testing and results. But we both know that straight up, +0/0 Legendary vs +0/0 Member, the Legendary is going to get more sales.
suchmoon
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March 11, 2018, 07:54:02 PM
Merited by YuTü.Co.in (1)
 #3538

Maybe. Thats hard to say without reliable testing and results. But we both know that straight up, +0/0 Legendary vs +0/0 Member, the Legendary is going to get more sales.

I don't know that so not sure how you can claim that we both do.

I think that someone who treats rank as an indication of trustworthiness is begging to get scammed. Ranks in the "old" system meant just that the user was active for a certain length of time, and in the "new" system it may eventually mean that the user was active and wasn't an utter shitposter. None of this has anything to do with trustworthiness in a trade. I guess you're implying that your customers are stupid and don't know that. Fair enough. Still it seems that your effort would be better spent towards building trust than building rank.

Inn0vative1
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March 12, 2018, 04:34:10 AM
 #3539

I am fairly new to Bitcoin Talk. I learned that the merit system used to be more "liberal" before, but was changed recently. Before, users would earn merit based on the number of posts they made. Later, the stipulation that they earn merit from other users was added. While I see the logic in doing this (to ensure higher quality posts), this gives an unfair advantage to people who were here before. These people earned merit almost automatically by contributing to this community, now, doing the same would not earn users merit automatically.

An alternative would be a system such as used by Reddit or Stackoverflow, any user can easily vote a story or post up or down, granting merit (or reputation) on those other platforms. By making a few select people the "custodians" of merit, this creates a biased, undemocratic, unlevel playing field that unfairly rewards older members and punishes new ones. If a user makes a post that benefits 1000 members of this community, but those 1000 members are mostly new members so are not able to give merit, their efforts go unrewarded. However, if an older member makes a post that is seen by 10 of his other older member friends, that member gets more merit for that. This is an unfair and biased system. I get the reasoning and idea behind it, but practically, it's not the best way to allocate merit (IMHO)... Especially on a platform that is known as one of the most important sites for decentralized technologies like Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency in general.
belyaevi
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March 12, 2018, 04:50:31 AM
 #3540

I am fairly new to Bitcoin Talk. I learned that the merit system used to be more "liberal" before, but was changed recently. Before, users would earn merit based on the number of posts they made. Later, the stipulation that they earn merit from other users was added. While I see the logic in doing this (to ensure higher quality posts), this gives an unfair advantage to people who were here before. These people earned merit almost automatically by contributing to this community, now, doing the same would not earn users merit automatically.

An alternative would be a system such as used by Reddit or Stackoverflow, any user can easily vote a story or post up or down, granting merit (or reputation) on those other platforms. By making a few select people the "custodians" of merit, this creates a biased, undemocratic, unlevel playing field that unfairly rewards older members and punishes new ones. If a user makes a post that benefits 1000 members of this community, but those 1000 members are mostly new members so are not able to give merit, their efforts go unrewarded. However, if an older member makes a post that is seen by 10 of his other older member friends, that member gets more merit for that. This is an unfair and biased system. I get the reasoning and idea behind it, but practically, it's not the best way to allocate merit (IMHO)... Especially on a platform that is known as one of the most important sites for decentralized technologies like Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency in general.

Those selected few members are not the custodians of the merit system. They got more default merits than lower rank members but those merits will get spend in few months. Thing of the merit system in long term. Once all the default merit points are spent, the merits will come from merit sources. These merit sources are picked by the admin and they will not be biased. If any merit source tries to give preference to senior members while giving merits that will be spotted by the admin as all merit data is publicly available. Some of the times senior members are in better position to answer queries and thus get merited.
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