Seriously bitcointalk, why this merit point system ???

[Ponzi Shame]

Good evening everyone,

I have created a special thread for more visibility about this discussion.

Why did you add this new merit point system??

I find this new system totally unfair, useless and even harmful for the future of our beautiful forum.

I understand your fight against fraud, multi-accounts, farming, spams etc... It's a real priority for you and the community.
Unfortunately, this system penalizes a very large number of perfectly honest users.

Like many, I participate in signature campaigns, which are sometimes a very good way to invest in projects that we like without taking any risks, if we don't have a lot of money. So my rank is very important for me because the reward depends on it. Unfortunately, with this new merit system, I'm sure that I will never reach the next rank. The number of merit points required is too high...

The number of points divided by 2 for each allocation will quickly show these limits and I doubt that the new points distributed monthly can counterbalance this.

Moreover, this distribution of points each month to a small number of users isn't an insult to our beloved decentralization? To this system set up by Satoshi who wants to free ourselves from the institutions?
When we see those who received the most merit points today (theymos, lutpin, satoshi...) Everything is said.

And what about locals sections? I imagine that only anglophones users will receive these new merit points each month and that they will benefit only part of the forum?

I'm also afraid that a real arranged traffic will develop around these points. "I'll give you 10 points, so you owe me 10." That people dont give points to quality posts, but to people who are likely to give them back.

I am also afraid, as we have already noticed, that a system of begging is being set up : "I'm willing to answer your question, if you give me merit points."...

The function of the red trusts was absolutely perfect and made it possible to know who we were dealing with, so why did you add this?

You're only going to explode account traffic...

In short, I think this system is a very bad idea and could seriously harm the good health of bitcointalk. And if it is maintained, I invite all users to spend their merit points honestly and intelligently (the legendaries don't need it for example)...

Signed: a full member who will probably never pass senior...

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[Wheelige]

It doesn't help that in order to find out any information about the merit system you need to click the button which is intended to give merit points out. It took me a while to get to it.

[RonJohannson]

Just another way to rank.  There are a lot of threads on here that are useless because people post just to increase their standing, which will enable them for various airdrops on other websites.

[chocolaty]

I see the points of this post and to some, I agree. It will be difficult for low-ranked members to level up since the merit point requirement is too big. Most are just mediocre members here. The new merit system won't be friendly for newbies since they won't be able to post quality comments because they still lack knowledge. Hence, they will have a hard time earning it. I also yearn being high-ranked someday but I guess that will be hard to achieve now. Not all my posts will be given merit because hundreds and thousands of posts here might be more valuable than mine. But this system may really help reduce spammers, it's just that it won't be friendly to the majority of the people who are just starting off.

[Maus0728]

This is totally unfair for those account who are below hero member ranks, and I totally agree with you that this new ranking system will surely slows the promotion for a higher rank. Hero and Legendary members are the one who will benefit as they can now join bounties hassle free.especially to those account that has the power to rule the entire FORUM.
It's unfair to those accounts who honestly giving their best to post with quality and with content, just to support their family.
I am also after with those signature campaigns but that is only my 3rd reason why I joined BCT.
I hope there will be some changes regarding this.

I thinks giving negative trust is much more than merit system.

[fogocut21]

This is totally unfair for those account who are below hero member ranks, and I totally agree with you that this new ranking system will surely slow the promotion for a higher rank. Hero and Legendary members are the one who will benefit as they can now join bounties hassle free.especially to those account that has the power to rule entire FORUM.
It's unfair to those accounts who honestly giving their best to post with quality and with content, just to support their family.
I am also after with those signature campaigns but that is only my 3 reason why I joined BCT.
I hope there will be some changes regarding this.

But you do understand that bounty campaigns are NOT the reason this forums exists? It could have been great if there were no spammers around and people just posted constructive and meaningful posts and also join bounties to get some extra cash. But unfortunately things didn't quite went in this direction and instead the forum suffered from a huge amount of spammers. Yes it makes life harder for newcomers if they want to participate in bounties, but if you keep posting good quality posts you'll get your merits.

[bttcoin]

I think this mechanism is a bit unfair, which allows those legendary or heroic users to rule the entire bitcointalk, but also to the honest and trustworthy users, their upgrade will be greatly delayed. Let those who have enough positions can not upgrade, can not participate in more advanced signature and airdrop activities. This is not what we hope

[xpashtetx]

In any case, this should have happened! All this flow of spammers had to be limited, and the forum administration chose this method of struggle! I myself remained one week to a full member, but I was not upset because the innovations were a forced measure!

[Thirio]

I see the points of this post and to some, I agree. It will be difficult for low-ranked members to level up since the merit point requirement is too big. Most are just mediocre members here. The new merit system won't be friendly for newbies since they won't be able to post quality comments because they still lack knowledge. Hence, they will have a hard time earning it. I also yearn being high-ranked someday but I guess that will be hard to achieve now. Not all my posts will be given merit because hundreds and thousands of posts here might be more valuable than mine. But this system may really help reduce spammers, it's just that it won't be friendly to the majority of the people who are just starting off.

Well said bro. I have the same thing in my mind. But how do i rank up if i don't know anyone here? Would somebody give my post a merit? I don't think so, although i try my best to give a quality post, i can't reckon that somebody in this huge forum will notice my posts unless he's someone i know. I think for the most part, ranking up would be hard since we, the low ranks, are unnoticeable unlike high ranks.

[xSkylarx]

Good evening everyone,

I have created a special thread for more visibility about this discussion.

Why did you add this new merit point system??

I find this new system totally unfair, useless and even harmful for the future of our beautiful forum.

I understand your fight against fraud, multi-accounts, farming, spams etc... It's a real priority for you and the community.
Unfortunately, this system penalizes a very large number of perfectly honest users.

Like many, I participate in signature campaigns, which are sometimes a very good way to invest in projects that we like without taking any risks, if we don't have a lot of money. So my rank is very important for me because the reward depends on it. Unfortunately, with this new merit system, I'm sure that I will never reach the next rank. The number of merit points required is too high...

The number of points divided by 2 for each allocation will quickly show these limits and I doubt that the new points distributed monthly can counterbalance this.

Moreover, this distribution of points each month to a small number of users isn't an insult to our beloved decentralization? To this system set up by Satoshi who wants to free ourselves from the institutions?
When we see those who received the most merit points today (theymos, lutpin, satoshi...) Everything is said.

And what about locals sections? I imagine that only anglophones users will receive these new merit points each month and that they will benefit only part of the forum?

I'm also afraid that a real arranged traffic will develop around these points. "I'll give you 10 points, so you owe me 10." That people dont give points to quality posts, but to people who are likely to give them back.

I am also afraid, as we have already noticed, that a system of begging is being set up : "I'm willing to answer your question, if you give me merit points."...

The function of the red trusts was absolutely perfect and made it possible to know who we were dealing with, so why did you add this?

You're only going to explode account traffic...

In short, I think this system is a very bad idea and could seriously harm the good health of bitcointalk. And if it is maintained, I invite all users to spend their merit points honestly and intelligently (the legendaries don't need it for example)...

Signed: a full member who will probably never pass senior...

It might be unfair but if you will look in it deeply, you'll understand what's merit really for. Red trust is not enough to prevent spamming and other negative deeds on this forum, with this merit system, those spammers need to post a post with a high quality to gain merit, because if they are not, ranking up will be hard for them.

[bitcoin revo]

Firstly, if you are only here on BitcoinTalk because of the existence of signature campaigns then you're here for the wrong reason. A forum is meant to be a corner for meaningful discussion, the sharing of ideas and innovations, and a friendly environment to grow and learn, not somewhere that a horde of users force out quotas of meaningless drivel. I understand the fact that monetary rewards for discussing is appealing, but the fact that there is this much complaint about a system that is designed to limit this reward against people who spam solely for signature campaigns says something about the condition of the forum.

The number of points divided by 2 for each allocation will quickly show these limits and I doubt that the new points distributed monthly can counterbalance this.

It is a new idea, and as many newly implemented ideas are, I'm sure that if the current number of users who are able to merit without limit isn't enough to bring enough merit around the forum to reward the average user, it will be drastically changed to fit the need.

Moreover, this distribution of points each month to a small number of users isn't an insult to our beloved decentralization? To this system set up by Satoshi who wants to free ourselves from the institutions?
When we see those who received the most merit points today (theymos, lutpin, satoshi...) Everything is said.

There will always be a natural gradient and those who provide the quality content that the forum needs will be rewarded in the forum. I see no problem with that, considering that merit points are not "all going towards the small number of users" - there's still plenty to go around for those who deserve it. And wouldn't you rather see the users who are positively contributing to the forum ranking up rather than having the rank system be a measure of consistency? Although it may not seem like it now, rank will gradually become much more meaningful.

I'm also afraid that a real arranged traffic will develop around these points. "I'll give you 10 points, so you owe me 10." That people dont give points to quality posts, but to people who are likely to give them back.

This has been brought up several times, but I doubt that this will be a real issue with the system of deteriorating merit as it is distributed. If it is, then, as mentioned before, it will be adapted and improved according to how the community uses it.

I am also afraid, as we have already noticed, that a system of begging is being set up : "I'm willing to answer your question, if you give me merit points."...

I don't particularly see this being an issue as people should expect others to utilize the merit system where need be. And if one refuses to help someone in need just for a few digits on a computer screen, they don't deserve to be here; the community should be on the lookout for those users and discourage that kind of behavior by acting out against them.

I invite all users to spend their merit points honestly and intelligently (the legendaries don't need it for example)

The merit system is purely to reward posts that deserve it. Continue contributing quality and you won't have to worry about who receives merit.

The new merit system won't be friendly for newbies since they won't be able to post quality comments because they still lack knowledge.

Newbies will be able to spend 8 weeks here until they are first limited by merit (@ 60 activity to become a member). That is plenty of time if they are serious about learning bitcoin.

[A.Delaney]

I understand the point of this merit system. I hope it accomplishes everything it was meant for. I know other forums that allow you to “like” a post. It’s similar other than needing it to rank.

I do think that people like to make small talk and mindless banter. It’s not high quality but it makes things fun. It needs to be just as fun as informative to keep people coming back. Also I don’t think spammers and scammers care about merit or rank. As long as they can post in the marketplace and spam threads their good.

[shailkumari]

I understand the point of this merit system. I hope it accomplishes everything it was meant for. I know other forums that allow you to “like” a post. It’s similar other than needing it to rank.

I do think that people like to make small talk and mindless banter. It’s not high quality but it makes things fun. It needs to be just as fun as informative to keep people coming back. Also I don’t think spammers and scammers care about merit or rank. As long as they can post in the marketplace and spam threads their good.

This update is targeting spammers making useless, repetitive posts just to gain higher levels so that they can participate in signature campaigns.

[A.Delaney]

I understand the point of this merit system. I hope it accomplishes everything it was meant for. I know other forums that allow you to “like” a post. It’s similar other than needing it to rank.

I do think that people like to make small talk and mindless banter. It’s not high quality but it makes things fun. It needs to be just as fun as informative to keep people coming back. Also I don’t think spammers and scammers care about merit or rank. As long as they can post in the marketplace and spam threads their good.

This update is targeting spammers making useless, repetitive posts just to gain higher levels so that they can participate in signature campaigns.

I guess I underestimated the severity of the problem. Hopefully this will rectify the situation in time.

[Sasuke102001]

The merit system was implemented to encourage quality posting and to stop shitposting which I agree is a very good idea to stop spams, multi-account farming etc but even the honest members can face a huge problem in ranking up because of the requirement of the merits. And in the previous 2 days, I just saw people giving merits to members who have already crossed legendary or the hero mark and these members are the famous and well-known members of this forum [ Like Yahoo, Lauda, The Pharmacist and etc ]. I didn't see any lower ranked member even with good posts getting as many merits as they are getting. So I guess this can be a problem for us lower ranked members.
 And correct if me If I am wrong about something above.

[shailkumari]

The merit system was implemented to encourage quality posting and to stop shitposting which I agree is a very good idea to stop spams, multi-account farming etc but even the honest members can face a huge problem in ranking up because of the requirement of the merits. And in the previous 2 days, I just saw people giving merits to members who have already crossed legendary or the hero mark and these members are the famous and well-known members of this forum [ Like Yahoo, Lauda, The Pharmacist and etc ]. I didn't see any lower ranked member even with good posts getting as many merits as they are getting. So I guess this can be a problem for us lower ranked members.
 And correct if me If I am wrong about something above.

Did you notice the quality of those threads made by well-known members who got merits ? Can you say that majority of them did not deserve the merits they got ? Lower ranked members need to learn from them and post such threads.

[Lauda]

Signed: a full member who will probably never pass senior...

Signed: a one line, useless, semi-spammer who doesn't deserve to pass anything*. Fixed that for you.
Another useless complaint thread from another useless poster. Contribute and get rewarded or just leave. Enough of this whining.

Lower ranked members need to learn from them and post such threads.

They should learn a lot before they even make their first post. Unfortunately, that is almost never the case.

[Sasuke102001]

The merit system was implemented to encourage quality posting and to stop shitposting which I agree is a very good idea to stop spams, multi-account farming etc but even the honest members can face a huge problem in ranking up because of the requirement of the merits. And in the previous 2 days, I just saw people giving merits to members who have already crossed legendary or the hero mark and these members are the famous and well-known members of this forum [ Like Yahoo, Lauda, The Pharmacist and etc ]. I didn't see any lower ranked member even with good posts getting as many merits as they are getting. So I guess this can be a problem for us lower ranked members.
 And correct if me If I am wrong about something above.

Did you notice the quality of those threads made by well-known members who got merits ? Can you say that majority of them did not deserve the merits they got ? Lower ranked members need to learn from them and post such threads.

Kindly read once again and tell have i even mentioned about their posts quality? I have seen many Hero and seniors with good posts not getting merits that is what I had said. I just said people are giving merits to just the well known members.
And maybe even you should have a look on your posts once  all one liners

[Ponzi Shame]

Signed: a full member who will probably never pass senior...

Signed: a one line, useless, semi-spammer who doesn't deserve to pass anything*. Fixed that for you.
Another useless complaint thread from another useless poster. Contribute and get rewarded or just leave. Enough of this whining.

Lower ranked members need to learn from them and post such threads.

They should learn a lot before they even make their first post. Unfortunately, that is almost never the case.

"semi-spammer" ahah

With your 22K msg and your "GUNBOT Licenses -15% with ref. code 'GrumpyKitty'", please, just shut up.
You're exactly the kind of cancer I hate on this forum, so don't come here to decay my thread with your message

[Ponzi Shame]

Firstly, if you are only here on BitcoinTalk because of the existence of signature campaigns then you're here for the wrong reason. A forum is meant to be a corner for meaningful discussion, the sharing of ideas and innovations, and a friendly environment to grow and learn, not somewhere that a horde of users force out quotas of meaningless drivel. I understand the fact that monetary rewards for discussing is appealing, but the fact that there is this much complaint about a system that is designed to limit this reward against people who spam solely for signature campaigns says something about the condition of the forum.

The number of points divided by 2 for each allocation will quickly show these limits and I doubt that the new points distributed monthly can counterbalance this.

It is a new idea, and as many newly implemented ideas are, I'm sure that if the current number of users who are able to merit without limit isn't enough to bring enough merit around the forum to reward the average user, it will be drastically changed to fit the need.

Moreover, this distribution of points each month to a small number of users isn't an insult to our beloved decentralization? To this system set up by Satoshi who wants to free ourselves from the institutions?
When we see those who received the most merit points today (theymos, lutpin, satoshi...) Everything is said.

There will always be a natural gradient and those who provide the quality content that the forum needs will be rewarded in the forum. I see no problem with that, considering that merit points are not "all going towards the small number of users" - there's still plenty to go around for those who deserve it. And wouldn't you rather see the users who are positively contributing to the forum ranking up rather than having the rank system be a measure of consistency? Although it may not seem like it now, rank will gradually become much more meaningful.

I'm also afraid that a real arranged traffic will develop around these points. "I'll give you 10 points, so you owe me 10." That people dont give points to quality posts, but to people who are likely to give them back.

This has been brought up several times, but I doubt that this will be a real issue with the system of deteriorating merit as it is distributed. If it is, then, as mentioned before, it will be adapted and improved according to how the community uses it.

I am also afraid, as we have already noticed, that a system of begging is being set up : "I'm willing to answer your question, if you give me merit points."...

I don't particularly see this being an issue as people should expect others to utilize the merit system where need be. And if one refuses to help someone in need just for a few digits on a computer screen, they don't deserve to be here; the community should be on the lookout for those users and discourage that kind of behavior by acting out against them.

I invite all users to spend their merit points honestly and intelligently (the legendaries don't need it for example)

The merit system is purely to reward posts that deserve it. Continue contributing quality and you won't have to worry about who receives merit.

The new merit system won't be friendly for newbies since they won't be able to post quality comments because they still lack knowledge.

Newbies will be able to spend 8 weeks here until they are first limited by merit (@ 60 activity to become a member). That is plenty of time if they are serious about learning bitcoin.

Thank you for your reasoned answer, but you will see within a few weeks that this system will not work and that it will probably be modified