The great Lightning scam

[Maveth13]

Why isn't anyone here talking about how lightning is bullshit and has nothing to do with Bitcoin or it's blockchain?

Oh that's right you need dummies to think it's the Bitcoin fix to scaling

Because almost all users are so hell-bent on believing that LN is the solution, so these 'dummies' believe them. The coin is decentralized but the development sure isn't.

---

---

Is lightning Bitcoin? No
Is lightning on bitcoins public ledger? No

It's a centralized attempt to confuse public it's Bitcoin

Where can I get lightning? No where in reality

What merchants take it? None in reality

See, you made good points on your first post, but now you just sound like an angry dude ranting on bitcoin. Seems like the whole point of these thread is you promoting this bizbytes thing, whatever that is.

[DannyHamilton]

So the tech ignorant have a new drum to beat as to what can 'save' Bitcoin.

Or a new thing that they don't understand, so they simply complain about it.

The reason Bitcoin will never scale is the public ledger block chain can never handle all the billions and trillions of transactions it would need to record.

That is the reason that there will never be a blockchain based cryptocurrency that scales with all transactions entirely on chain.

So the solution lightning.

Correct.

It's off chain

Incorrect. It is a hybrid on/off chain system.

The transactions that open and close the channels are ON CHAIN.
The transactions within a channel are individually off-chain, but the net result of the channel transactions is committed to an ON CHAIN transaction when the channel is closed.

and centralized in power to the channels being created to run it.

I don't think the word "centralized" means what you seem to think it means.

So none of it hits the block chain nor the public ledger.

nor???  The blockchain IS the public ledger.  Those aren't 2 different things.

As I explained, some of it DOES hit the Blockchain (the public ledger).

None of it involves proof of work.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but you can not open or close a channel without a miner including the transaction in a block that they've built and then completing the proof of work.

It's not crypto

Considering that it's ability to function depends entirely on cryptography such as cryptographic signatures and cryptographic hashes, that is a blatant and obvious LIE.

and is complete crap

That is just an opinion.  It is an opinion of someone that clearly doesn't understand what they are talking about, so I'm not going to take that opinion very seriously.  I doubt any knowledgeable and educated person will.

and it sure isn't Bitcoin.

Another blatant and obvious LIE.  The transaction that opens the channel is an on-chain bitcoin transaction. The transaction that closes the channel is an on-chain bitcoin transaction. The value that moves through the channel is bitcoin value. The keys that are used in the signatures are bitcoin private keys. The scripts in the transaction outputs are bitcoin scripts. There isn't anything about a Lightning Channel that isn't bitcoin.

If you think bch is crap, well lightning makes bch looks like a rolls Royce.

That is just an opinion.  It is an opinion of someone that clearly doesn't understand what they are talking about, so I'm not going to take that opinion very seriously.  I doubt any knowledgeable and educated person will.

Why isn't anyone here talking about how lightning is bullshit and has nothing to do with Bitcoin or it's blockchain?

Because, we don't share your uneducated opinion on the matter.

Oh that's right you need dummies to think it's the Bitcoin fix to scaling

Honestly, I don't care whether or not you think it's the "Bitcoin fix to scaling".  It's pretty clear that it will be possible to send MANY more transactions through Lightning Channels than could ever fit on any Blockchain.

Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period

We've been over this already.  I'm not going to repeat it again.  I suggest you go back and re-read this post to get the response to this silly statement.

All it does is trick dummies

Dummies don't need to be tricked.  Dummmies make up nonsense of their own, and then believe it regardless of the facts.

into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin

Well they're not

It's OFF CHAIN

We've been over this already.  I'm not going to repeat it again.  I suggest you go back and re-read this post to get the response to this silly statement.

Complete crap

You seem to be stuck in a repeating cycle here.  You keep saying the same thing over and over as if that will make it more true.  Repetition won't change facts.

[EvilKingfisher55]

I think this ranting about bitcoin is just to promote your bizbytes. Anyway, no one is forcing you not to believe on bitcoin and you cannot contradict on what people want.

[Bob-Bit]

I don't get what peoples problem is. I buy stuff with BTC all the time. Get yourself a Coinbase account. I know, everybody loves whatever wallet they're using. Just use 2 wallets. The Coinbase wallet links to the Shift card they offer. Spend money any time you want. It's a Visa card, and the transaction goes thru immedietely. Take cash out of the ATM. Theres a ATM fee, but it's the same amount as my bank for foreign ATMS (3.00 or 3.50, cant remember) Now your transactions happen off blockchain. Problem solved. Oh, you want to send BTC to your friend, or someone who you are buying from? Or you want to recieve BTC from someone who bought something from you on ebay? Coinbase does Coinbase to Coinbase transactions off blockchain too also with no fee. That's how I pay the rent for my mining space. The other problem with BTC transactions is you want to wait till the price is up to make a large purchase. So get yourself a second (or third) wallet from Bitpay. Wait till the price is where you need it to be, and move over $500 or whatever you need to over to the Bitpay card. Now those funds are locked in (basically you've sold some of your BTC) Now since your sending BTC from yourself to yourself the time it takes to go through shouldn't matter as much so use a really low transaction fee, and just wait a couple days for it to go through if that's what it takes. Just use the tools you have available, and there really aren't any problems. I think people WANT there to be a problem, probably cause they have invested in some altcoin. People need to be able to go into a store and swipe a card. That's how the whole world is setup. It's best to work with what is there already. Visa gets their cut, banks get their cut, and everyone will chill with the resistance. Wallet to wallet is cool for some stuff for sure, but not for a McDouble and a Coke.

[Digital Mutant]

So the tech ignorant have a new drum to beat as to what can 'save' Bitcoin.

The reason Bitcoin will never scale is the public ledger block chain can never handle all the billions and trillions of transactions it would need to record.

So the solution lightning.

It's off chain and centralized in power to the channels being created to run it.

So none of it hits the block chain nor the public ledger.

None of it involves proof of work.

It's not crypto and is complete crap and it sure isn't Bitcoin.

If you think bch is crap, well lightning makes bch looks like a rolls Royce.

Why isn't anyone here talking about how lightning is bullshit and has nothing to do with Bitcoin or it's blockchain?

Oh that's right you need dummies to think it's the Bitcoin fix to scaling

Lol
Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period

All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin

Well they're not

It's OFF CHAIN

Complete crap

I understand that you want to be a little provocative, but listen you said it, it is off chain.
Nobody wants it to be the solution.

It is just something that permits send bitcoin fast to from a sender to  receiver.
In my opinion is an experiment that we can develope and see if in the near future it is possible to add required features to make it more secure.

[bug.lady]

you know to call something a scam you would need to identify people who deliberately try to get unfair money, trick others, etc. anyway there is always the beneficiary and a victim of a scam. From your post I can see that you consider Lightning Network crap and I can understand your point of view (although I don't agree, because there is still not much evidence this or that way, and I try not be prejudiced).

But, to call it a scam - well it is much too farfetched and even harming to the creators as it assumes their malevolent motives and bad intentions.

[DooMAD]

So the tech ignorant have a new drum to beat as to what can 'save' Bitcoin.

(...)

So none of it hits the block chain nor the public ledger.

None of it involves proof of work.

(...)

Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period

All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin

Well they're not

It's OFF CHAIN

When a channel is opened or closed, it is securely recorded on the public ledger.  Channels can be opened by anyone with funds, which means it shouldn't be centralised.  You have to timelock the funds on the Bitcoin blockchain before you can send any off-chain transactions, so Lightning absolutely still requires proof of work in order to function.  The transactions are only temporarily off-chain.  There's no fractional reserve involved and at all times no one can send more Bitcoin than they possess.  It sounds like your post is generally more "tech ignorant" than anything else I've read about Lightning lately.  

It's also a little surprising you care so much given your subsequent replies about "abandonment of blockchain" and needing a centralised company to be in control to make anything work.  Even if Lightning was centralised, and there's no evidence that it is, why would it even matter if you don't rate the importance of decentralisation very highly to begin with?  Then you start shamelessly plugging your altcoin, which makes me think the thread itself might possibly just be click-bait for you to get attention for your altcoin and freely discuss it in the wrong subforum.  Maybe that wasn't the intent, but it looks more than a little suspect.

However, if you are being genuine regarding your concerns, it's fair to say I initially had more than a few reservations over Lightning too, but those concerns have been largely assuaged by seeing it in action.  I suggest you take some time to do some research and figure out how it actually works, because based on what you've said so far, it's only fair for me to assume you haven't done that.  If, after educating yourself, you still have concerns or questions, feel free to post again.

[BillCoin]

So the tech ignorant have a new drum to beat as to what can 'save' Bitcoin.

(...)

So none of it hits the block chain nor the public ledger.

None of it involves proof of work.

(...)

Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period

All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin

Well they're not

It's OFF CHAIN

When a channel is opened or closed, it is securely recorded on the public ledger.  Channels can be opened by anyone with funds, which means it shouldn't be centralised.  You have to timelock the funds on the Bitcoin blockchain before you can send any off-chain transactions, so Lightning absolutely still requires proof of work in order to function.  The transactions are only temporarily off-chain.  There's no fractional reserve involved and at all times no one can send more Bitcoin than they possess.  It sounds like your post is generally more "tech ignorant" than anything else I've read about Lightning lately.  

It's also a little surprising you care so much given your subsequent replies about "abandonment of blockchain" and needing a centralised company to be in control to make anything work.  Even if Lightning was centralised, and there's no evidence that it is, why would it even matter if you don't rate the importance of decentralisation very highly to begin with?  Then you start shamelessly plugging your altcoin, which makes me think the thread itself might possibly just be click-bait for you to get attention for your altcoin and freely discuss it in the wrong subforum.  Maybe that wasn't the intent, but it looks more than a little suspect.

However, if you are being genuine regarding your concerns, it's fair to say I initially had more than a few reservations over Lightning too, but those concerns have been largely assuaged by seeing it in action.  I suggest you take some time to do some research and figure out how it actually works, because based on what you've said so far, it's only fair for me to assume you haven't done that.  If, after educating yourself, you still have concerns or questions, feel free to post again.

Don't forget that anyone who uses bitcoin has to open and close channels,which means that for someone who wants to make 1-2 payments within the bitcoin network, it won't save any fees.

Also, lightning nodes will most likely be centralized, the whole idea about lightning network is that it will be centralized.
Think about it like that, there are going to be  several nodes that have connections to most of the common used addresses among the network, those nodes are going to be the only nodes that will be used for lightning transactions, that is going to make it very centralized network.
It is not going to solve anything, all it is going to do is to convert decentralized slow network into a centralized fast network- not going to solve any problem at the long run.

[Similificator]

So the tech ignorant have a new drum to beat as to what can 'save' Bitcoin.

The reason Bitcoin will never scale is the public ledger block chain can never handle all the billions and trillions of transactions it would need to record.

So the solution lightning.

It's off chain and centralized in power to the channels being created to run it.

So none of it hits the block chain nor the public ledger.

None of it involves proof of work.

It's not crypto and is complete crap and it sure isn't Bitcoin.

If you think bch is crap, well lightning makes bch looks like a rolls Royce.

Why isn't anyone here talking about how lightning is bullshit and has nothing to do with Bitcoin or it's blockchain?

Oh that's right you need dummies to think it's the Bitcoin fix to scaling

Lol
Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period

All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin

Well they're not

It's OFF CHAIN

Complete crap

lol, you clearly do not know sht about what you are talking about. yet you have the guts to rant about your thoughts without even taking the time to know what you are talking about. let alone compare lightning to bitcoin cash? lol. do you know how crappy the bitcoin cash solution is? thinking about it, it will only last a year or two till we'll need another fork to the the same solution that bitcoin cash did. try to read more first next time before you post things that you do not even know sht about. because this can confuse a lot of newbies out there that doesnt know a lot yet about bitcoins and the lightning networks together with all the other altcoins present out there.

[Bob-Bit]

I don't get what peoples problem is. I buy stuff with BTC all the time. Get yourself a Coinbase account. I know, everybody loves whatever wallet they're using. Just use 2 wallets. The Coinbase wallet links to the Shift card they offer. Spend money any time you want. It's a Visa card, and the transaction goes thru immedietely. Take cash out of the ATM. Theres a ATM fee, but it's the same amount as my bank for foreign ATMS (3.00 or 3.50, cant remember) Now your transactions happen off blockchain. Problem solved. Oh, you want to send BTC to your friend, or someone who you are buying from? Or you want to recieve BTC from someone who bought something from you on ebay? Coinbase does Coinbase to Coinbase transactions off blockchain too also with no fee. That's how I pay the rent for my mining space. The other problem with BTC transactions is you want to wait till the price is up to make a large purchase. So get yourself a second (or third) wallet from Bitpay. Wait till the price is where you need it to be, and move over $500 or whatever you need to over to the Bitpay card. Now those funds are locked in (basically you've sold some of your BTC) Now since your sending BTC from yourself to yourself the time it takes to go through shouldn't matter as much so use a really low transaction fee, and just wait a couple days for it to go through if that's what it takes. Just use the tools you have available, and there really aren't any problems. I think people WANT there to be a problem, probably cause they have invested in some altcoin. People need to be able to go into a store and swipe a card. That's how the whole world is setup. It's best to work with what is there already. Visa gets their cut, banks get their cut, and everyone will chill with the resistance. Wallet to wallet is cool for some stuff for sure, but not for a McDouble and a Coke.

Didn't you hear Visa canceled every card they catch using bitcoin

Bitcoin is now a major NO NO with Visa.

Please post link to Shit card so Visa can shut it down like all the other cards trying to use Visa for Shitcoin

Now if Coinbase has a special deal with Visa, I never heard of it, it's probably a very limited deal, low limits and no cash or low cash out.

Probably only USA and not the rest of the world.

There was one bank doing lots of shitcoin/visa cards and that bank got yanked

So if coinbase has a limited shitcoin card great, it will be pulled soon just like Stripe got rid of shitcoin transactions

Banks are starting to say no to shitcoin

They know it's shit

You're wrong about this one. Coinbase does have a special deal. Bitpay does also. There are a few more as well. Other then the Shift card which is the Coinbase one, the way the other cards work is they connect to an exchange and you are basically selling some of your BTC (some of them support other altcoins as well) so anyways, you sell some of your coins and the exchange sends your money to what is basically a prepaid reuseable Visa card (with their own branding on it) I'm in the process of moving to a less restrictive state (In NY atm, which is most restrictive there is, and doesn't allow half the exchanges) so I can get one of those cards. Now as far as limits go, the Shift card offered by Coinbase has a $1000 limit per transaction. The Bitpay card has a much larger limit (10000 per transaction) so you'd want to utilize that for your big ticket items. I get the feeling that you don't particularly like Bitcoin for some reason. Kinda strange that you would join a Bitcoin forum if you dislike Bitcoin. Also, there's lots of things in this life I don't like, but I just concentrate on the ones I do. Why would I want to be reminded of something I didn't like? It's a big world out there. I'm sure you could find a hobby that makes you happy.

[dothebeats]

What's the whole point of paying for an intermediary if you can pay the miners without having to go through all of this shenanigans? At first I was kinda hopeful whether LN would deliver or not, but after churning every single bit of detail I get about LN, it turns out that this would benefit a select few, especially the off-chain intermediaries who'd receive some cut on the tx. It's not a scalability solution but rather a compromise just to make ends meet in the meantime until a feasible scaling soution is implemented. I share the sentiment, but wouldn't call LN a scam.

lol, you clearly do not know sht about what you are talking about. yet you have the guts to rant about your thoughts without even taking the time to know what you are talking about. let alone compare lightning to bitcoin cash? lol. do you know how crappy the bitcoin cash solution is? thinking about it, it will only last a year or two till we'll need another fork to the the same solution that bitcoin cash did. try to read more first next time before you post things that you do not even know sht about. because this can confuse a lot of newbies out there that doesnt know a lot yet about bitcoins and the lightning networks together with all the other altcoins present out there.

What is your proposition, then?

[Digital Mutant]

Just for your info:
If you are developer there is a Bitcoin + Lightning developer survey:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc6aO_VK27AoxCskzw3upZKnth6dFSiLjOvT75Z6ee0jdw-nw/viewform

[Bob-Bit]

I don't get what peoples problem is. I buy stuff with BTC all the time. Get yourself a Coinbase account. I know, everybody loves whatever wallet they're using. Just use 2 wallets. The Coinbase wallet links to the Shift card they offer. Spend money any time you want. It's a Visa card, and the transaction goes thru immedietely. Take cash out of the ATM. Theres a ATM fee, but it's the same amount as my bank for foreign ATMS (3.00 or 3.50, cant remember) Now your transactions happen off blockchain. Problem solved. Oh, you want to send BTC to your friend, or someone who you are buying from? Or you want to recieve BTC from someone who bought something from you on ebay? Coinbase does Coinbase to Coinbase transactions off blockchain too also with no fee. That's how I pay the rent for my mining space. The other problem with BTC transactions is you want to wait till the price is up to make a large purchase. So get yourself a second (or third) wallet from Bitpay. Wait till the price is where you need it to be, and move over $500 or whatever you need to over to the Bitpay card. Now those funds are locked in (basically you've sold some of your BTC) Now since your sending BTC from yourself to yourself the time it takes to go through shouldn't matter as much so use a really low transaction fee, and just wait a couple days for it to go through if that's what it takes. Just use the tools you have available, and there really aren't any problems. I think people WANT there to be a problem, probably cause they have invested in some altcoin. People need to be able to go into a store and swipe a card. That's how the whole world is setup. It's best to work with what is there already. Visa gets their cut, banks get their cut, and everyone will chill with the resistance. Wallet to wallet is cool for some stuff for sure, but not for a McDouble and a Coke.

Didn't you hear Visa canceled every card they catch using bitcoin

Bitcoin is now a major NO NO with Visa.

Please post link to Shit card so Visa can shut it down like all the other cards trying to use Visa for Shitcoin

Now if Coinbase has a special deal with Visa, I never heard of it, it's probably a very limited deal, low limits and no cash or low cash out.

Probably only USA and not the rest of the world.

There was one bank doing lots of shitcoin/visa cards and that bank got yanked

So if coinbase has a limited shitcoin card great, it will be pulled soon just like Stripe got rid of shitcoin transactions

Banks are starting to say no to shitcoin

They know it's shit

You're wrong about this one. Coinbase does have a special deal. Bitpay does also. There are a few more as well. Other then the Shift card which is the Coinbase one, the way the other cards work is they connect to an exchange and you are basically selling some of your BTC (some of them support other altcoins as well) so anyways, you sell some of your coins and the exchange sends your money to what is basically a prepaid reuseable Visa card (with their own branding on it) I'm in the process of moving to a less restrictive state (In NY atm, which is most restrictive there is, and doesn't allow half the exchanges) so I can get one of those cards. Now as far as limits go, the Shift card offered by Coinbase has a $1000 limit per transaction. The Bitpay card has a much larger limit (10000 per transaction) so you'd want to utilize that for your big ticket items. I get the feeling that you don't particularly like Bitcoin for some reason. Kinda strange that you would join a Bitcoin forum if you dislike Bitcoin. Also, there's lots of things in this life I don't like, but I just concentrate on the ones I do. Why would I want to be reminded of something I didn't like? It's a big world out there. I'm sure you could find a hobby that makes you happy.

Most of the visa cards were wiped out last month, so if a couple have their own deals it's just when will visa shit can them.

Personally I love my shitcoins, got most around $5 a coin

I said they were SHIT then and I laugh as the SHIT keeps going up

Unlike most here, I do have a deep understanding of tech and bitcoin is shit

But it has a devoted following of morons so it keeps raising in value, but the shit hit the fan recently when some smart guys said publicly, look this is really SHIT so it has to fall and they were right the SHIT dropped over 50% in days

But the SHIT is still maintaining a nice value

Now over the years I bought other SHIT coins, ETH, LTC, DGE and XRP

I guess I like SHIT

I laugh all the way to the bank about my SHITCOINS

haha

Oh I'm not wrong on this

See it's news Visa is canceling shit cards tied to shitcoin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2018/01/05/visa-locks-bitcoin-payment-cards-crackdown-card-issuer/

Soon coinbase will be hit and BitPay was mentioned as already being hit in another article

So Visa is saying NO to SHITCARDS with SHITCOINS

Only dummies in USA are still allowed to use shitcards with shitcoins

haha

All of Europe was canceled by Visa

https://dowbit.com/visa-bitcoin-cards-europe/

You're spreading disinformation. From the article you linked: "Visa said the cards had been suspended after Visa terminated WaveCrest's membership due to "continued non-compliance with our operating rules", although it said other Visa cards that convert Bitcoin into normal currency would not be affected.

"Visa has other approved card programmes that use fiat funds converted from cryptocurrency in a number of jurisdictions. The termination of WaveCrest’s Visa membership does not affect these other products."
It was one card provider that they were having an ongoing problem with. The sky is not falling.

[1legalco]

Coinbase is a USA based exchange I know lots of people in Europe all of them with Visa and MasterCard connected to Bitcoin canceled

I'm surprised coinbase still operating their card

Also multiple articles say bitpay visa canceled

Never made sense to me tying a crypto card to a fiat card

Just sell crypto through exchange then exit into an account with a card tied to it

Crypto credit cards just never seemed right

[Bob-Bit]

Coinbase is a USA based exchange I know lots of people in Europe all of them with Visa and MasterCard connected to Bitcoin canceled

I'm surprised coinbase still operating their card

Also multiple articles say bitpay visa canceled

Never made sense to me tying a crypto card to a fiat card

Just sell crypto through exchange then exit into an account with a card tied to it

Crypto credit cards just never seemed right

Well the system is already in place to accept payments with Visa, so it's really smart to leverage that, and be able to spend your money where you want. There's no limits that way. You don't need to find places that accept BTC, and it's strategically a good deal to get the "system" to accept Crypto, cause Visa is still getting their 3% from merchants for accepting it, banks still get their ATM fee when you withdraw, so big business doesn't feel as threatened by a major adoption. Yeah, there's a little politics at play, but what do you expect when big moneys involved? Bitpay has not been cancelled, I used it yesterday, and they only sent mine to me like the week before Christmas, and I have a friend who is waiting on his card which was sent out Monday, so those were rumors you heard about it being cancelled.

[fanbeila]

So the tech ignorant have a new drum to beat as to what can 'save' Bitcoin.

The reason Bitcoin will never scale is the public ledger block chain can never handle all the billions and trillions of transactions it would need to record.

So the solution lightning.

It's off chain and centralized in power to the channels being created to run it.

So none of it hits the block chain nor the public ledger.

None of it involves proof of work.

It's not crypto and is complete crap and it sure isn't Bitcoin.

If you think bch is crap, well lightning makes bch looks like a rolls Royce.

Why isn't anyone here talking about how lightning is bullshit and has nothing to do with Bitcoin or it's blockchain?

Oh that's right you need dummies to think it's the Bitcoin fix to scaling

Lol
Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period

All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin

Well they're not

It's OFF CHAIN

Complete crap

Oh yes.You are right.None of us here thought about it before.We were just thinking that lightning network would be the ultimate solution for all the transaction problems which bitcoin is now facing . It would be better for our bitcoin community to encourage all to use Segwit itself and solve the transaction issues.

[1legalco]

Coinbase is a USA based exchange I know lots of people in Europe all of them with Visa and MasterCard connected to Bitcoin canceled

I'm surprised coinbase still operating their card

Also multiple articles say bitpay visa canceled

Never made sense to me tying a crypto card to a fiat card

Just sell crypto through exchange then exit into an account with a card tied to it

Crypto credit cards just never seemed right

Well the system is already in place to accept payments with Visa, so it's really smart to leverage that, and be able to spend your money where you want. There's no limits that way. You don't need to find places that accept BTC, and it's strategically a good deal to get the "system" to accept Crypto, cause Visa is still getting their 3% from merchants for accepting it, banks still get their ATM fee when you withdraw, so big business doesn't feel as threatened by a major adoption. Yeah, there's a little politics at play, but what do you expect when big moneys involved? Bitpay has not been cancelled, I used it yesterday, and they only sent mine to me like the week before Christmas, and I have a friend who is waiting on his card which was sent out Monday, so those were rumors you heard about it being cancelled.

Are you in Europe?

Those are not rumors, they're major media in Europe.

Now the point of BTC white paper was to operate outside banks.

You leave banks and fiat out of it crypto works.

However, most people have nothing of value to trade.

That's why a merchant based crypto network works. Every merchant has what some consumers want.

So a merchant network that takes crypto from a smartphone needs no terminals, no banks no accounts with banks.

So merchants preferring a crypto will make that top crypto in time.

You can think crypto to visa a good idea, I don't. I think a stable merchant crypto will replace everything.

[CryptoChanel]

Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period
All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin
Well they're not
It's OFF CHAIN
Complete crap

Bitcoin Cash is actually Bitcoin. 

Bitcore (BTX) is actually Bitcoin. Sorry guys, but Bitcore is the only one around with all the needed features and perfect scalability. Check it!

[1legalco]

Lightning has nothing to do with bitcoins block chain problems period
All it does is trick dummies into thinking their lightning transactions are related to Bitcoin
Well they're not
It's OFF CHAIN
Complete crap

Bitcoin Cash is actually Bitcoin. 

Bitcore (BTX) is actually Bitcoin. Sorry guys, but Bitcore is the only one around with all the needed features and perfect scalability. Check it!

There's only one Bitcoin

It's broken

Now if you think btx is better why

Is it blockchain?

If so it will never scale to a global  currency

[Bob-Bit]

Coinbase is a USA based exchange I know lots of people in Europe all of them with Visa and MasterCard connected to Bitcoin canceled

I'm surprised coinbase still operating their card

Also multiple articles say bitpay visa canceled

Never made sense to me tying a crypto card to a fiat card

Just sell crypto through exchange then exit into an account with a card tied to it

Crypto credit cards just never seemed right

Well the system is already in place to accept payments with Visa, so it's really smart to leverage that, and be able to spend your money where you want. There's no limits that way. You don't need to find places that accept BTC, and it's strategically a good deal to get the "system" to accept Crypto, cause Visa is still getting their 3% from merchants for accepting it, banks still get their ATM fee when you withdraw, so big business doesn't feel as threatened by a major adoption. Yeah, there's a little politics at play, but what do you expect when big moneys involved? Bitpay has not been cancelled, I used it yesterday, and they only sent mine to me like the week before Christmas, and I have a friend who is waiting on his card which was sent out Monday, so those were rumors you heard about it being cancelled.

Are you in Europe?

Those are not rumors, they're major media in Europe.

Now the point of BTC white paper was to operate outside banks.

You leave banks and fiat out of it crypto works.

However, most people have nothing of value to trade.

That's why a merchant based crypto network works. Every merchant has what some consumers want.

So a merchant network that takes crypto from a smartphone needs no terminals, no banks no accounts with banks.

So merchants preferring a crypto will make that top crypto in time.

You can think crypto to visa a good idea, I don't. I think a stable merchant crypto will replace everything.

But do you want to wait for that or do you want to spend your money right now? You don't have to talk merchants into anything, they already have pinpads. I imagine the way it's going to work out EVENTUALLY will be like when you see a pinpad that has apple pay, android pay,  or paypal, it'll be like that but something to the effect of "Pay here with Coinbase" or Coinbasepay, or whatever they decide to call it. (There's your stable merchant crypto, we just need to make it to that point) THEN the Visa cards will start to phase out somewhat, but it'll be a long time before that's complete. Remember, there's still people out there with Diner's club cards.