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Question: Do you think members can rank up with the new merit system?
Yes - 94 (30%)
No - 178 (56.9%)
Both - 14 (4.5%)
Not sure - 27 (8.6%)
Total Voters: 313

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Author Topic: The reality is 99.9% members can never rank up with the new merit system.  (Read 3690 times)
Nikkolodeon
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January 29, 2018, 06:41:10 PM
 #61

I think they will rank up eventually as long as they keep posting quality posts although it will be rough and will take too much time. But the problem is, no matter how quality post it is, it will not always get a merit, sometimes they will just ignore your post or sometimes they wanted to give merit but they don't have enough smerits. But this cannot stop low quality posts, some people will just keep posting and posting as long as they got enough merits. But this is for the better forum. I know that they just add up the merit system for good.
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January 30, 2018, 03:35:04 AM
 #62

I was initially very skeptical about the way the merit system would be implemented, even though something like this was clearly needed, but as time goes by I'm starting to think it could eventually work, but only if there will be enough sources of merit wandering around the forum.

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January 30, 2018, 03:46:47 AM
 #63

All of the members could still rank up they just have to prove that they are worth it,
They just have to prove that they aren't one of those spammer's who are just spamming nonsense in this forum.
And I think if their comment,thread or post is really informative or helpful there would be a forum member that would surely give them a merit.

logosobscura
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January 30, 2018, 03:56:52 AM
 #64

All of the members could still rank up they just have to prove that they are worth it,
They just have to prove that they aren't one of those spammer's who are just spamming nonsense in this forum.
And I think if their comment,thread or post is really informative or helpful there would be a forum member that would surely give them a merit.

If the mechanic was more graceful than it is, sure- but from a UI perspective, it's actually a lot of effort to award merit, and that means it's likely to only be used for merit farming- essentially a digital circlejerk probably coordinated on Telegram channels.

I don't think it solves the problem it's trying to address, and may actually make it worse. I get the need to lessen administrative burden (and I totally agree with that, it's becoming a bit of a shitshow for them), but I actually think this might have the opposite effect. If they'd opened the proposal to public scrutiny (say as a Request for Comments), this would have been a lot smoother and likely would look and function a lot differently. Instead, it's now become technical debt that'll be hard to redesign effectively.

jtipt
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January 30, 2018, 04:16:52 AM
 #65

I am not kissing lutpin's ass, im correcting you from your fault, your hate, and your pessimistic about this system.

Ahem.. Firstly I don't hate Lutpin or the merit system, he deserved all the merit that he got. I was just giving his example that all the merit he got is from the replies he gave in the merit thread.


You can add that point and see if that counts to 1000++ . And i am 100% sure it is not up to 1000 merit points.
The reason why he got 1600++ because theymos decided to make account with minimal activity point in range of legendary member has 1000 merit, which he didnt got at first (he got 500 at first), theymos decided and patched it after for all hero member account that has potential activity to be legendary member rank. Please read and dont talk without a data, it will make you sounds stupid and full of hate toward someone.
Well, I didn't knew about that. So its not 1000+ merit, it's still 500+ that's still a lot.
As I said I was just trying to point out he got most of merit from his replies in the merit thread.
I agree I might have been a bit wrong about the facts but you don't need to get so angry about it.
I am just trying to point out that people are giving merit only to the posts which are related to merits rather than other 'quality' posts.

Dude check your own merit, now 14 activity is the max achievable in 14 days.. so in less than a week you have earned more merit than activity. Keep that up and this will have almost no effect on you
Yeah I am not worried about ranking, eventually I'll become legendary that's why I voted yes in the poll. I was only saying that merits are not being given to a lot of posts that deserve it in the other other sections of the forum, at least for now this is the situation. But its not even been a week since the implementation of this system so I hope this will change soon.
Flying Hellfish
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January 30, 2018, 04:21:54 AM
Merited by Vod (3), TMAN (2)
 #66

If they'd opened the proposal to public scrutiny (say as a Request for Comments), this would have been a lot smoother and likely would look and function a lot differently.

Did we see you in this thread? Or did you only care about it when it affected your sig campaign goals?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2605767.msg26517436#msg26517436

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ducdr
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January 30, 2018, 08:05:49 AM
Last edit: January 30, 2018, 11:10:54 AM by ducdr
Merited by TheNewAnon135246 (1)
 #67

All of the members could still rank up they just have to prove that they are worth it,
They just have to prove that they aren't one of those spammer's who are just spamming nonsense in this forum.
And I think if their comment,thread or post is really informative or helpful there would be a forum member that would surely give them a merit.
For receiving merits, briefly, I think there are several important points that lower-ranked users should remember in their heads before writing threads:

1. Don't plagiarise (because it violates the 33th rule of the forum, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)
2. Don't spamming with low-quality, non-sense, off-topic threads
3. Don't too much offended or defended (posts should be as neutral as possisble)
4. Don't try to spread FUDs around the forum (will be permanently banned by admin or moderators).

5. Write good, high-quality, on-topic, useful, meaningful threads/ topics (which are constructive, solving-problem posts).
6. Write in good-quality English grammar and vocabularies (which don't lead to unexpected misunderstandings).
7. Write posts with clear, transparent evidences (links attached if mention about other topics, figures, images of technical issuses, etc.)

Of course, there are more tips new users should follow, practice, and use them when they write. These one are only some of them in a nutshell.

I strongly believe in the merit system and its possitive, massive impacts on the forum's users, particulary new ones.
izanagi narukami
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January 30, 2018, 08:20:27 AM
Merited by TMAN (1)
 #68

For what I can see that most people here are looking for bounty especially Newbie ~ full member.
And as my experience , their post quality mostly do not deserve any merit and most merit will be distribute between higher rank member or old member that still exist and contribute.

~Only the time will answer
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January 30, 2018, 08:33:59 AM
 #69

I think they will rank up eventually as long as they keep posting quality posts although it will be rough and will take too much time. But the problem is, no matter how quality post it is, it will not always get a merit, sometimes they will just ignore your post or sometimes they wanted to give merit but they don't have enough smerits.

Then just keep going. If you're making quality posts then as you say you will get the merit eventually but you're also contributing to make the forum a better place in the meantime. Anyone posting just for the merit means their heart isn't really in the right place and all they truly care about is ranking up just to earn more but people shouldn't have a problem with actually making good/great posts as this is what you should be doing anyway but people got lazy/greedy at the ease they were able to earn from campaigns.

But this cannot stop low quality posts, some people will just keep posting and posting as long as they got enough merits. But this is for the better forum. I know that they just add up the merit system for good.

It wont stop low quality posts but low quality posters will get nowhere very fast. The second solution we need to implement now is punishments for those campaign managers that don't do their job properly and pay anyone regardless of quality because once many people do get their rank and enough merit their post quality will likely drop if they now don't need to put much effort in to get paid. If campaign managers only accepted and paid for quality posts as opposed to any old shitposter currently then the forum would be a much different place than it is now. In fact, if campaign managers just did their job in the first place then we wouldn't have even needed this merit system to begin with.

I was initially very skeptical about the way the merit system would be implemented, even though something like this was clearly needed, but as time goes by I'm starting to think it could eventually work, but only if there will be enough sources of merit wandering around the forum.

More merit source can and will be easily added so this isn't really a problem.

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January 30, 2018, 08:44:01 AM
 #70

The first time to see a sr member talking about the negative impacts of merit system.
I really appreciate it.

I always see new members cry about the merit system but older members think highly of it. I think those old people support the system just because they will get profit from it, not because they are responsible.

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TheNewAnon135246
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January 30, 2018, 09:14:29 AM
 #71

The first time to see a sr member talking about the negative impacts of merit system.
I really appreciate it.

I always see new members cry about the merit system but older members think highly of it. I think those old people support the system just because they will get profit from it, not because they are responsible.

Maybe that is because new members are looking to rank up fast so they can join signature campaigns. I don't see how I would 'get profit' from the merit system, besides that it will likely result in a better overall post quality on the forum.

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TMAN
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January 30, 2018, 09:25:18 AM
 #72

The first time to see a sr member talking about the negative impacts of merit system.
I really appreciate it.

I always see new members cry about the merit system but older members think highly of it. I think those old people support the system just because they will get profit from it, not because they are responsible.

Maybe that is because new members are looking to rank up fast so they can join signature campaigns. I don't see how I would 'get profit' from the merit system, besides that it will likely result in a better overall post quality on the forum.

we profit by having more time... as we have to trawl through less Pajeet shit posts.. over time if we did a time and motion study based on BTC price v hours spent on forum v shitposts read v non shitposts... it would be an interesting study - actually  I will give out 5 merits for anyone who can work out the formula for me.

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TheNewAnon135246
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January 30, 2018, 10:02:14 AM
Merited by TMAN (5), Vod (2)
 #73

The first time to see a sr member talking about the negative impacts of merit system.
I really appreciate it.

I always see new members cry about the merit system but older members think highly of it. I think those old people support the system just because they will get profit from it, not because they are responsible.

Maybe that is because new members are looking to rank up fast so they can join signature campaigns. I don't see how I would 'get profit' from the merit system, besides that it will likely result in a better overall post quality on the forum.

we profit by having more time... as we have to trawl through less Pajeet shit posts.. over time if we did a time and motion study based on BTC price v hours spent on forum v shitposts read v non shitposts... it would be an interesting study - actually  I will give out 5 merits for anyone who can work out the formula for me.

η (inefficiency) = (pajeet posts/quality posts) x 100.

Let's say a topic has 80 posts, out of which 20 are low quality.

η = (20/80) x 100 = 25% time loss reading pajeet posts.

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TMAN
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January 30, 2018, 10:05:09 AM
 #74

The first time to see a sr member talking about the negative impacts of merit system.
I really appreciate it.

I always see new members cry about the merit system but older members think highly of it. I think those old people support the system just because they will get profit from it, not because they are responsible.

Maybe that is because new members are looking to rank up fast so they can join signature campaigns. I don't see how I would 'get profit' from the merit system, besides that it will likely result in a better overall post quality on the forum.

we profit by having more time... as we have to trawl through less Pajeet shit posts.. over time if we did a time and motion study based on BTC price v hours spent on forum v shitposts read v non shitposts... it would be an interesting study - actually  I will give out 5 merits for anyone who can work out the formula for me.

η (inefficiency) = (pajeet posts/quality posts) x 100.

Let's say a topic has 80 posts, out of which 20 are low quality.

η = (20/80) x 100 = 25% time loss reading pajeet posts.

Thanks for that..  shame it wasn't a lower ranked member who came up with that.

.FORTUNE.JACK.
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99th
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January 30, 2018, 10:13:52 AM
 #75

I find it funny how the hero and legendary members defend the system they got so easily grandfathered in to. The funniest part is that they have yet to score 1 merit on top of what they were gifted. Heh.

And by score I mean earn it, not get it by trading merit with your buddies.
TMAN
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January 30, 2018, 10:22:57 AM
 #76

I find it funny how the hero and legendary members defend the system they got so easily grandfathered in to. The funniest part is that they have yet to score 1 merit on top of what they were gifted. Heh.

And by score I mean earn it, not get it by trading merit with your buddies.

What I find funny is people like you who just bitch and moan.. Embrace the new system, look for people who are handing out merits to those that deserve them.. I have had a shit ton of merits from people I have not interacted with before because I have been positive and upbeat about it and tried to assist others.

Negativity is a horrible trait in life, it will bring you down and fuck you up..  As the song says "always look on the bright side of life"

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klaaas
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January 30, 2018, 10:26:18 AM
 #77

its a way to express how a person thinks about a post.
Since its needed to lvl up, its not really usefull that Legendary members receive merrit. They only will receive more to give away.
Yes, getting to the next rank will be tuff.
mikeey89
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January 30, 2018, 10:45:32 AM
 #78

I didn't like the merit when it got activated just a few days before I would reach my new rank, but even I see the benefits of it. A lot of people just posts small effort comments to try ranking up ad fast as they can, and farming multiple accounts at the same time. With this new merit system that will be very time consuming and maybe they give up. If they do not give up, we will anyway see more quality comments from them and other users.

Merit will make this forum a better place with more quality posts, and I also think the discussions will be a lot better than earlier.
ducdr
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January 30, 2018, 11:07:08 AM
 #79

~
Anyone posting just for the merit means their heart isn't really in the right place and all they truly care about is ranking up just to earn more but people shouldn't have a problem with actually making good/great posts as this is what you should be doing anyway but people got lazy/greedy at the ease they were able to earn from campaigns.
~
The second solution we need to implement now is punishments for those campaign managers that don't do their job properly and pay anyone regardless of quality because once many people do get their rank and enough merit their post quality will likely drop if they now don't need to put much effort in to get paid.
~
I really like your two main points on negative side of merit system. Several early days after its launch, users who really need more merits to be ranked up will put efforts to be ranked up, utmost for those whose progresses delayed by the merit system. After that, what will happen next? They will lose their motivations, shitty-posts will come out for sure. That's your worthy point.

Additionally, as I have asked myself so many times, that whether the merit system will change higher-ranked users, like Sr. Members, Heroes, Ledgendaries to be a worse one than they ever been. To clarify, the system seems to give them rights to judge others, specifically those at lower-ranks. The free right they got will probably makes them more imperious, ruder, etc. I think part of those users will change to that negative way. It's not good, and not fair with lower-users.
actmyname
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January 30, 2018, 11:18:42 AM
Merited by nullius (1)
 #80

I really like your two main points on negative side of merit system. Several early days after its launch, users who really need more merits to be ranked up will put efforts to be ranked up, utmost for those whose progresses delayed by the merit system. After that, what will happen next? They will lose their motivations, shitty-posts will come out for sure. That's your worthy point.
If they have to be continually motivated to create posts that aren't spam then do you really want these types of individuals on your forum anyway? After all, they don't really want to contribute anything to it. They just want to get their pennies. Smiley

To clarify, the system seems to give them rights to judge others, specifically those at lower-ranks.
No. That may be to begin with, as the sMerit distribution favors the higher-ranked users (regardless of their contributions, so it may be a bell curve that's centered more closely around a spammier side) however as time continues you'll find that the amount of sMerit that the high-ranked users have will decrease. Then eventually sources will be distributing merit to other users and we might see some trickle-down.

The free right they got will probably makes them more imperious, ruder, etc. I think part of those users will change to that negative way. It's not good, and not fair with lower-users.
More time on the forum means more experience. This should correlate with the users:
a) deserving the merit
b) being able to fairly distribute the merit

Of course, this is not completely true as we do have some high-ranked users that are pretty worthless but as a general statement, I think there's some merit to it.

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