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Author Topic: [Aug 2020] Fees are low, use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs!  (Read 31035 times)
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June 21, 2020, 03:37:00 PM
 #241

I wonder how you came across it?
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that Medium user has probably plagiarized other content as well.
Just report it to Medium, that's what I did and it worked.

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June 25, 2020, 11:34:15 AM
 #242

Fee estimators
  • https://coinb.in/#fees (The recommended fee seems "stuck" at a high value, don't rely on this site! But it also lets you manually select inputs and outputs to see the transaction size (in bytes), so I don't remove it from this list yet)
It works again: https://coinb.in/#fees. The recommended fee is 34 sat/byte.

I check on another site: https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/fee-calculator/ and see the fee estimator to confirm within 6 blocks (~ 60 minutes) is 30 satoshis/ byte. (I choose 1 input, and 2 outputs, transaction type: Legacy)

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June 25, 2020, 11:40:28 AM
Merited by OcTradism (1)
 #243

It works again: https://coinb.in/#fees. The recommended fee is 34 sat/byte.

the problem with this site is that it gives an estimation of fee based on previous block instead of doing it based on memory pool. it is somewhat like trying to predict the weather based on yesterday's weather instead of analyzing the sky, clouds, wind,... right now.
so usually the fees they suggest is close to reality but there are always times when it is either higher or lower if the mempool had grown or shrank ever since last block was found. not to mention that last block's transactions might have been overpaying (eg. a block with little number of transactions all paying the highest fees) or underpaying (eg. mining pool paying its miners with 0 fee transactions).

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June 26, 2020, 03:11:42 PM
 #244

It works again: https://coinb.in/#fees. The recommended fee is 34 sat/byte.
They're now recommending 0 Sat/Byte. I now use Johoe's site most of the time.

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July 07, 2020, 10:04:01 AM
 #245

In this topic, I found this transaction: 463 legacy inputs, 1000 sat each, 1 SegWit output (380080 sat), 82913 bytes and 82920 sat fee. It confirmed 65 blocks ago.
That's the proper way to consolidate small inputs!

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July 11, 2020, 10:25:12 AM
 #246

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!
When you are in a rush, it saves a lot in fees if you can use only one input address (and ideally use native SegWit: bc1q......).

Each has its own consolidation tactics. With the consolidation in mind one can amass as  much (in reasonable numbers, certainly) UTXOs as possible and then consolidate or do it each time when the certain UTXO quantity (suppose, 10) is reached. Which of the two options do you think is the best?





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July 11, 2020, 10:39:50 AM
Merited by Captain-Cryptory (1)
 #247

Which of the two options do you think is the best?
It depends: on mobile, I consolidate funds each time I receive a payment, so it's accessible at the lowest fee whenever I need it.
For other addresses I can wait months and use coin control (which I can't do on mobile) when needed. Or when I have to make a payment, I use that to consolidate funds too.

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July 23, 2020, 07:07:40 AM
Merited by tranthidung (1)
 #248

I found another example of why I created this topic:
I sent $11 and received $0.60...

Transaction ID: 85329b9ff63ee1a2ab7602a338b857d3427e6d2d44b10ddb25591605a1b04ffa
See transaction on Blockchair.com:
Image loading...
What makes it worse is that several of the inputs were worth more than the total output before sending it. So it's like the opposite of consolidating.

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July 26, 2020, 12:47:37 PM
 #249

1 sat/byte is enough.
Correct. I moved (not consolidated - but who care consolidation is kinda transaction) my coin about less than 4 hours ago at 1 satoshi / byte and it was confirmed at the latest dump in mempool size.





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July 26, 2020, 03:48:07 PM
 #250

1 sat/byte is enough.
Correct. I moved (not consolidated - but who care consolidation is kinda transaction) my coin about less than 4 hours ago at 1 satoshi / byte and it was confirmed at the latest dump in mempool size.

it was mainly the end of the week effect that happens around sundays where fees stay down otherwise with the price rise that we had recently there should have been a bigger fee jump than this. right now it is again around 17 sat/byte.

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July 26, 2020, 05:26:58 PM
 #251

right now it is again around 17 sat/byte.
It has been increased now to 44sat/byte. Instantly after observing thread, I have bumped fee of one of my tx to 2 sat/byte instead of 1sat/byte but this is still pending and probably will be pending again for a long time.

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July 29, 2020, 10:54:46 AM
 #252

Sorry for a bug like me bothering giants, but can someone of you help me few questions and overall understanding.

I see you talk a lot about transaction fee of 1sat/byte. Is there a possibility of transaction to stuck or get lost?
For example if I send 1 bitcoin with transaction fee of 1sat/byte is there an opportunity for me to lost it for ever? Or it will take hour/day/month/year to get it transferred, but in the end the receiver will get it?

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July 29, 2020, 11:00:12 AM
Last edit: July 29, 2020, 11:10:42 AM by gentlemand
 #253

I see you talk a lot about transaction fee of 1sat/byte. Is there a possibility of transaction to stuck or get lost?
For example if I send 1 bitcoin with transaction fee of 1sat/byte is there an opportunity for me to lost it for ever? Or it will take hour/day/month/year to get it transferred, but in the end the receiver will get it?

Nope. Worst case scenario is that it won't get picked up and processed by a miner. It will return to your wallet, not that it ever left. I can't quite remember but I think that'll take 10-14 days to play out.

Even with fees as they are it's quite possible someone will process it during that time. There would be many peaks and troughs during a couple of weeks. I've had some lengthy waits whilst skimping but I've never had one fail to get there eventually.

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July 29, 2020, 11:42:44 AM
 #254

I can't quite remember but I think that'll take 10-14 days to play out.
It's 14 days by default but the user can change his node's mempool configuration depending on his preferences.
Bitcoin Conf: mempoolexpiry=360 (hours).

For example if I send 1 bitcoin with transaction fee of 1sat/byte is there an opportunity for me to lost it for ever? Or it will take hour/day/month/year to get it transferred, but in the end the receiver will get it?
There is also a chance that your transaction will get dropped by most nodes earlier than expected because higher fee transactions were prioritized and their mempool maximum size was reached.
Again, not all nodes would do that since it's also configurable in bitcoin.conf: maxmempool=300 (megabytes).

When it was dropped by all nodes, you can send another transaction again using the same unspent transaction output(s).
But will depend on your client, Electrum for example will keep it as a "local transaction" which wont let you spend those outputs unless you delete it in the history.

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July 29, 2020, 11:50:00 AM
Merited by Erumo (1)
 #255

Sorry for a bug like me bothering giants
There's no need for such a disclaimer, at least in my topics. How did you go from "I'm Erumo - Master of the Universe" to being humble?

Quote
I see you talk a lot about transaction fee of 1sat/byte. Is there a possibility of transaction to stuck or get lost?
For example if I send 1 bitcoin with transaction fee of 1sat/byte is there an opportunity for me to lost it for ever? Or it will take hour/day/month/year to get it transferred, but in the end the receiver will get it?
The main risk is if you're paying a time-sensitive service. For example, when I order dinner, I want the payment to confirm fast, so I can eat within ~45 minutes.

Nope. Worst case scenario is that it won't get picked up and processed by a miner. It will return to your wallet, not that it ever left. I can't quite remember but I think that'll take 10-14 days to play out.
It depends on the wallet. Bitcoin Core keeps broadcasting the transaction, so it will never expire and never "return" to the wallet (unless you manually intervene). Years ago, I had to double spend a transaction that was "stuck" for 2 weeks with 0 fee (zero fee transactions were still possible at the time).
If the wallet doesn't keep broadcasting, I think it varies a bit per service/miner/mempool/block explorer. Take this transaction for example: I made it from Electrum, but instantly closed the wallet so it can't broadcast it again. Blockchair.com still remembers it was broadcasted 5 days ago, Blockchain.com says it was received yesterday, and BlockCypher.com doesn't know the transaction at all. I manually keep broadcasting it until it confirms.

On Mycelium (Android mobile) I've had a low-fee (consolidation) transaction "stuck" for a few weeks, and I couldn't easily stop it from broadcasting to spend the funds elsewhere. I could have taken drastic measures like uninstalling the app, but it wasn't worth it at the time. Eventually, it confirmed.

Quote
Even with fees as they are it's quite possible someone will process it during that time. There would be many peaks and troughs during a couple of weeks. I've had some lengthy waits whilst skimping but I've never had one fail to get there eventually.
It will get interesting when mempool grows to several GB in size. I expect transactions with the lowest fees to be dropped first.
Update: nc50lc beat me to it Tongue

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July 30, 2020, 07:43:33 AM
 #256

Sorry for a bug like me bothering giants
There's no need for such a disclaimer, at least in my topics. How did you go from "I'm Erumo - Master of the Universe" to being humble?

Too many Universes around, I'm just the master of my own Cheesy In the world of humans and this particular forum, my knowledge of bitcoin technology (i.e. transactions) equals bugs life cycle eat-sleep-repeat (receive-send bitcoin). Looking how you communicate and operate with knowledge, I made a comparison of me being a bug, and others being giants.

Maybe this is not the best topic to ask, but I would be really grateful if someone would explain how fee and transaction time are calculated.

It works again: https://coinb.in/#fees. The recommended fee is 34 sat/byte.

For example how he calculated recommended amount here ? Or how can I calculate approximate transaction time using https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h with this recommended 34 sat fee ?

Or another question. If I send bitcoin at 08:00, and wish to receive it on other address at 08:00 next day, which amount of Satoshi per byte should I use?

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July 30, 2020, 08:21:36 AM
 #257

I would be really grateful if someone would explain how fee and transaction time are calculated.
You can't calculate the transaction time. That's because the fee estimate is based on past transactions, and the actual confirmation time will depend on future transactions and future block times.
So the best you can do is an estimate, and if things change (for instance when it takes longer to find the next block), your estimate was wrong.

Quote
For example how he calculated recommended amount here ? Or how can I calculate approximate transaction time using https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#0,24h with this recommended 34 sat fee ?
Don't forget that the recommended fee is usually based on getting a fast confirmation, which often isn't necessary. If all wallets do that, all you accomplish is ever increasing fees when blocks are full. Based on Johoe's current overview, I expect 15 sat/byte to confirm quite fast. 10 sat/byte might take a few hours. But if the next block takes an hour, 40 sat/byte might not be enough to get in there.

Quote
If I send bitcoin at 08:00, and wish to receive it on other address at 08:00 next day, which amount of Satoshi per byte should I use?
It doesn't work that way. You can use Locktime to create a transaction that can't be confirmed before a certain time/date/block, but that means you'll have to broadcast it the next day.
I can't think of a single use for what you're asking though, usually it's not a problem if someone gets paid a few hours before expecting the payment.

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August 01, 2020, 12:08:03 PM
Merited by LoyceV (6)
 #258

Consolidate Bump.
At the moment, 10 sat/byte is enough for a fast confirmation. I'm hoping tomorrow mempool will be empty again, so if you're not in a rush I recommend using a lower fee.

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!
When you are in a rush, it saves a lot in fees if you can use only one input address (and ideally use native SegWit: bc1q......).


Might be better in some cases (particularly when the fee is relatively high) not to use consolidation but instead select (via the coin control) a few UTXOs (linked to specific address) and utilize them, what are your thoughts on that?





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August 01, 2020, 12:21:14 PM
 #259

Might be better in some cases (particularly when the fee is relatively high) not to use consolidation but instead select (via the coin control) a few UTXOs (linked to specific address) and utilize them, what are your thoughts on that?
I always use coin control (except for on mobile, Mycelium doesn't allow it). It's good for fees and privacy.
You can also save on fees by making "pay to many" transactions. If you have to make a payment anyway, see if there are other less time sensitive payments you need to make and add them to the same transaction. Example: pay for webhosting, deposit to an exchange, and order catfood in one transaction.

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August 01, 2020, 03:49:03 PM
 #260

I have been looking for the perfect opportunity to consolidate some inputs for several days now, but the opportunity is just not there for a 1-2 sat/vbyte consolidation attempt. Right now there are almost 65MBs of unconfirmed transactions in the mempool. Most of them are in the 1-2 sat/vbyte region. Hopefully it will empty out soon. But even during the last weekend it wasn't great. 

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