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Author Topic: Storage with 0% chance of failure?  (Read 814 times)
tkbx (OP)
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August 29, 2013, 08:03:01 PM
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I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?
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August 29, 2013, 09:06:50 PM
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I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?

I believe usb drives should last 10 years, if written once and stored properly. However, I'd recommend multiple storage devices stored in geographicly separate areas. (e.g., your house, your brother's house, your parent's house, etc.)

Don't forget to encrypt the drive before delivery  Wink

 

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August 29, 2013, 09:13:32 PM
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paper?

C10H15N
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August 29, 2013, 09:14:30 PM
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Zero chance of failure.  Not possible.

This will come close (there are two and they are very widely seperated), but it is incredibly impractical.   Grin


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tkbx (OP)
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August 29, 2013, 10:16:42 PM
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I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?

I believe usb drives should last 10 years, if written once and stored properly. However, I'd recommend multiple storage devices stored in geographicly separate areas. (e.g., your house, your brother's house, your parent's house, etc.)

Don't forget to encrypt the drive before delivery  Wink

 

I guess if I have a few that would be good enough.

Now, in the past I've encrypted the wallet through bitcoin-qt, then placed it on an encrypted drive. But last time I did that the password to the truecrypt volume miraculously stopped working and I lost almost a bitcoin. I know this is entirely illogical, but I'm kind of afraid to store wallets with truecrypt now.

So I'm wondering, is using bitcoin-qt's built-in encryption good enough? Say you were to make a wallet to store upwards of 1000 bitcoins, and you wanted to be 100% positive that the file is never lost. so you want to distribute the encrypted version to 20 people you know and have them store it, but not have access to the coins. Would bitcoin-qt's encryption be as good as full file or disk encryption?
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August 29, 2013, 10:39:31 PM
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I know this is entirely illogical, but I'm kind of afraid to store wallets with truecrypt now.

I don't think it's illogical. Today we outsource the protection of our money. We store it in a bank and we spend it with credit cards. That outsourced protection comes with a cost (Service fees at banks and merchants passing along higher prices to cover the credit card company's 2% vig.)

I'll even give you some more to think about... Sorry - they are not pleasant thoughts but that's what happens when we take back control of our money...

What happens if you should die? Perhaps worse, what happens if you were to suffer an injury and you weren't able to remember the password? Does your wife or extended family know how to "use" bitcoin? Assuming they wouldn't recognize the value, do they know how to convert bitcoin to fiat?

They are hard questions, no doubt.

I'd use truecrypt with plausible deniability. I don't have knowledge if that is a better solution (except for the plausible deniability part) than the bitcoin-qt encryption.

Next, I'd pay a lawyer something and have him draft a simple will. You can give him the password (sealed and he doesn't even have to know what's in the sealed envelope) and it will be protected by lawyer confidentiality.

I'd also include instructions about how to get fiat from your stored coins.

Cheers!

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August 29, 2013, 10:44:21 PM
 #7

So I'm wondering, is using bitcoin-qt's built-in encryption good enough? Say you were to make a wallet to store upwards of 1000 bitcoins, and you wanted to be 100% positive that the file is never lost. so you want to distribute the encrypted version to 20 people you know and have them store it, but not have access to the coins. Would bitcoin-qt's encryption be as good as full file or disk encryption?

Yes, make sure you have clean computer and the password is pretty secure - I saw cracked 50+ character password maked of dictionary words
tkbx (OP)
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August 29, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
 #8

So I'm wondering, is using bitcoin-qt's built-in encryption good enough? Say you were to make a wallet to store upwards of 1000 bitcoins, and you wanted to be 100% positive that the file is never lost. so you want to distribute the encrypted version to 20 people you know and have them store it, but not have access to the coins. Would bitcoin-qt's encryption be as good as full file or disk encryption?

Yes, make sure you have clean computer and the password is pretty secure - I saw cracked 50+ character password maked of dictionary words

Yes, I'm going to use a long, random password. The only problem is this: I've previously used random.org, but my tinfoil hat is urging me away from anything online (despite HTTPS). Is there a "true" random password generator that can be done offline, from mouse entropy or something?
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August 30, 2013, 02:14:53 AM
 #9

I recommend against flash storage because over years it can lose charge. I have 14 years old 1st generation CD-R that is still defect-free. And 15 years old floppy diskette that still have games on it that I played on 80306. But don't trust nothing more valuable than warez or porn to these devices. Nowadays they are of lesser quality.

Making multiple copies - one on CD and one on computer's harddrive is enough for every person who will not misplace or scratch CD or neglect the failing signs of harddrive.

Quote
Is there a "true" random password generator that can be done offline, from mouse entropy or something?
Keepass password generate function is great. Customize the password length and chars needed, collect entropy from mouse. Open source.

bc1q59y5jp2rrwgxuekc8kjk6s8k2es73uawprre4j
b!z
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August 30, 2013, 01:23:14 PM
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Shave your head and tattoo it, then wait for your hair to grow back. It will last many years, trust me. :-)
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August 30, 2013, 01:57:48 PM
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If it's not cold storage, it does not need to last for 10+ years. Keep a few copies on flash drives and rotate through them periodically. When one fails, replace it.

If you want to store long term w/ minimal chance of failure, generate an offline keypair, print to card paper (laser printer, not inkjet), laminate, and store in both a safe deposit box and home safe. Transfer your coins in via public key whenever you have extra funds to set aside.
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August 30, 2013, 02:19:13 PM
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Shave your head and tattoo it, then wait for your hair to grow back. It will last many years, trust me. :-)

Tatoo your ass, believe me, this is the most secure place noone will ever look

b!z
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August 30, 2013, 03:03:58 PM
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Shave your head and tattoo it, then wait for your hair to grow back. It will last many years, trust me. :-)

Tatoo your ass, believe me, this is the most secure place noone will ever look

You will have to grow hair there to cover the tattoo.
zackclark70
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August 30, 2013, 03:05:44 PM
 #14

I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?

I save a coppy of all my coin wallets on to 5 cds and 1 usb pen  and that works well Smiley and cost less than £5 lol

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August 30, 2013, 03:12:53 PM
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I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?

I save a coppy of all my coin wallets on to 5 cds and 1 usb pen  and that works well Smiley and cost less than £5 lol

Make sure to store them in different geographical locations. This prevents you from losing all of them if there is a fire for example.
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August 30, 2013, 03:17:03 PM
 #16

Zero chance of failure.  Not possible.

This will come close (there are two and they are very widely seperated), but it is incredibly impractical.   Grin


We also need to think about the ease of retrieving the data Wink

The problem with a single device is that it is single. Even if it is proof against failure, it might get lost. With multiple devices it becomes complicated to keep them in sync without compromising security.
Why not encrypt your stuff, and send it to the clouds?

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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August 30, 2013, 03:21:08 PM
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Zero chance of failure.  Not possible.

This will come close (there are two and they are very widely seperated), but it is incredibly impractical.   Grin


We also need to think about the ease of retrieving the data Wink

The problem with a single device is that it is single. Even if it is proof against failure, it might get lost. With multiple devices it becomes complicated to keep them in sync without compromising security.
Why not encrypt your stuff, and send it to the clouds?

You need to be sure that the cloud storage won't lose your data/close down too.
tkbx (OP)
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August 30, 2013, 06:22:59 PM
 #18

Shave your head and tattoo it, then wait for your hair to grow back. It will last many years, trust me. :-)

Tatoo your ass, believe me, this is the most secure place noone will ever look

Except the NSA, which is probably the only entity which would come looking for my bitcoins.
tkbx (OP)
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August 30, 2013, 06:26:17 PM
 #19

I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?

I save a coppy of all my coin wallets on to 5 cds and 1 usb pen  and that works well Smiley and cost less than £5 lol

How's that possible? 5 pounds is $7.73 US. This is almost enough for a flash drive, plus CDs are like $10/5 if you don't buy in bulk, which I don't plan to do because it's 2013 and bitcoin wallets are the only thing I'd use them for.

Where are you getting your USB drives for <$8? I was hoping to find a bulk rate on old 128MB drives, assuming they'd be cheap, but the only places I could find them under 1GB haven't been updated in years and still cost over $10 each.
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August 30, 2013, 07:02:00 PM
 #20

I want somewhere to store a bitcoin wallet, not cold storage, just some sort of device to use between computers that isn't cloud-based. I've thought of USB flash drives, USB hard drives, SD cards, and optical media, but each one seems vulnerable to its own kind of failure "method" (general failure on flash and hard drives and SD cards, drops on hard drives, and scratches on CDs). Is there any kind of storage medium that can hold at least a few megabytes and has a very, very high chance of lasting at least 10 years?

I save a coppy of all my coin wallets on to 5 cds and 1 usb pen  and that works well Smiley and cost less than £5 lol

How's that possible? 5 pounds is $7.73 US. This is almost enough for a flash drive, plus CDs are like $10/5 if you don't buy in bulk, which I don't plan to do because it's 2013 and bitcoin wallets are the only thing I'd use them for.

Where are you getting your USB drives for <$8? I was hoping to find a bulk rate on old 128MB drives, assuming they'd be cheap, but the only places I could find them under 1GB haven't been updated in years and still cost over $10 each.

I got some 2gb key shaped ones for £1.99 and I pay between £0.10 and £0.20 a cd depending on the quality

I have nearly 50 coin wallets lol it was the best way I could think off to do it at the time

you only need to have the wallet on there it never needs updating as when it loads the blockchain it will see all the newer transactions Smiley

I have had portable wallets made for some altcoins so I can store everything including the blockchain on a usb pen and load it on any comp with out saving any files on it

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