Bitcoin transactions processing

[CryptoNeuron]

Is the current processing rules for Bitcoin transactions optimal for such cases as:
1. "Transferring a sum of money with cents".
2. "Automatic transfer of some sum of money received from a specific sender".
3.  "Setting a priority of transaction".

Also, there are many other derivative questions regarding steps of transaction execution.

[1713919217]

1713919217

[ranochigo]

1. "Transferring a sum of money with cents".

No. The protocol rules does not restrict the sending of dust outputs to addresses. Its considered non standard however. If you're strictly talking about cents, then no. Even if its a few dollars, the fees wouldn't make it worth it.

2. "Automatic transfer of some sum of money received from a specific sender".

Depends. It would actually incur a significant amount of fees if you do this for every single transaction. Otherwise, if you redirect the funds once every few transactions, it would be somewhat fine.

3.  "Setting a priority of transaction".

Also, there are many other derivative questions regarding steps of transaction execution.

Priority? If you mean that in the context of free transaction, then no. Priority of transactions doesn't matter anymore.

[CryptoNeuron]

Got it. Thanks. But what about a realization of additional functionality that, say, will let users,
first, analyse its transactions history,
second, manage its profits,
third, automatically decline suspicious income transactions,
fourth, holding some sum of money on sender's account (if it is contract arranged),
etc.

[Xynerise]

Got it. Thanks. But what about a realization of additional functionality that, say, will let users,
first, analyse its transactions history,
second, manage its profits,
third, automatically decline suspicious income transactions,
fourth, holding some sum of money on sender's account (if it is contract arranged),
etc.

"Profits" "suspicious INCOME transactions" and "accounts" are not how bitcoin work at all.

Read Andreas Antonopolous' book Mastering Bitcoin to understand how it works.

The bitcoin protocol has no idea of "profits" or "accounts"

[amishmanish]

Got it. Thanks. But what about a realization of additional functionality that, say, will let users,
first, analyse its transactions history,
second, manage its profits,
third, automatically decline suspicious income transactions,
fourth, holding some sum of money on sender's account (if it is contract arranged),
etc.

Why are you comparing bitcoin functionality with that of your investment adviser/ personal banker??!
First and foremost, bitcoin is a method to exchange value without the need of a middleman with the assurance that the transaction is irrefutable.
This has only been possible until now with an intermediary in between to back the value. Bitcoin needs no backing as its backed by the continuously growing ledger on its blockchain.

If you are talking about additional functionalities then all of it is possible with bitcoin sidechains.

[CryptoNeuron]

Thanks Xynerise for book proposal.
Anyway, I would be glad to hear from you about possibilities, real possibilities for building a much more stonger financial system based on Blockchain technology that as it is now.
Won't you dispute on fact that there is no any steady crypto (bitcoin) financial platform which will be capable of replacing nowadays, say, bank system?

Don't we use a bitcoin based IT solution only for a successively stored and users-approved data???   

[CryptoNeuron]

Many thanks for amishmanish.
Perfectly right you are. I completely agree with you, foremost is sweating out of the middleman in process of "A-to-B" transaction. No doubt.
But what I am really worried about is that nobody cares of how god damn realize a totally functioning finance system based on blockchain technology. The finance system that would be able to substitute, say, current corrupted bank system.

 

[CryptoNeuron]

Guys, I think that Kai is partly absolutely right in his criticism.
https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-a-use-case-for-blockchain-ee98c180100?gi=ae261fc3417d

[sjyi]

Guys, I think that Kai is partly absolutely right in his criticism.
https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-a-use-case-for-blockchain-ee98c180100?gi=ae261fc3417d

Got it. Thanks. But what about a realization of additional functionality that, say, will let users,
first, analyse its transactions history,
second, manage its profits,
third, automatically decline suspicious income transactions,
fourth, holding some sum of money on sender's account (if it is contract arranged),
etc.

You say that Kai is partly right in his criticism.   He make a case against software making automatic decisions.  But your questions additional functionality would be software making autonomous decisions.

Are you saying that his case for human intervention is not right?

[amishmanish]

Many thanks for amishmanish.
Perfectly right you are. I completely agree with you, foremost is sweating out of the middleman in process of "A-to-B" transaction. No doubt.
But what I am really worried about is that nobody cares of how god damn realize a totally functioning finance system based on blockchain technology. The finance system that would be able to substitute, say, current corrupted bank system.

Bitcoin's ability to transact peer-to-peer and its immutability makes it a currency. The nature of blockchain and decentralization is such that it cannot scale in its present form. Though there has been work going on to scale using even 1 GB blocks (which even the said researcher admit doesn't have a chance of yielding anything). Thats why Bitcoin is going to scale using SegWit, LN and a combination of upcoming improvements.
Thats the main target at present. Once that happens, it won't take long for the existing order to correct itself.

Guys, I think that Kai is partly absolutely right in his criticism.
https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-a-use-case-for-blockchain-ee98c180100?gi=ae261fc3417d

Such pessimistic views are easy to put forward but blockchain is being used by a lot of startups. Those raising money through ICOs etc. Providing  banking services (Bankex), Removing middlemen between buyers and companies (INS), even cloud computing (Golem, SONM etc)
So its an upcoming field. It'll have its winners and losers.

[Katashi]

i believe the thing you are saying aren't the relevant ones, coz to practically speaking if you will be transfering Satoshis which i mean really small amount of satoshis. I believe the transaction fee you will be incurring will not be worth it. Make sense dude.

[CryptoNeuron]

You say that Kai is partly right in his criticism.   He make a case against software making automatic decisions.  But your questions additional functionality would be software making autonomous decisions.

Are you saying that his case for human intervention is not right?

Yes, when it concerns with third party. And you were absolutely right about "autonomous decisions" as, what I strongly believe in, any cryptocurrency based on blockchain technology won't be capable of replacing current financial mechanism without AI algorithms. What I am trying to say is the blockchain technology has narrow field of functional applicability in terms of, say, parallel programming.

As a result of aforesaid, soon, I gonna post 5 articles about problems in mechanism of current global financial system, problems in usage of blockchain technology in analysis of Big Data, and, what is more important, about a new approach (mathematical method) in creation of transparent and "access-to everybody" crypto info-sphere.   

[CryptoNeuron]

Bitcoin's ability to transact peer-to-peer and its immutability makes it a currency. The nature of blockchain and decentralization is such that it cannot scale in its present form. Though there has been work going on to scale using even 1 GB blocks (which even the said researcher admit doesn't have a chance of yielding anything). Thats why Bitcoin is going to scale using SegWit, LN and a combination of upcoming improvements.
Thats the main target at present. Once that happens, it won't take long for the existing order to correct itself.

Many thanks! Right!
From my point of view the blockchain scalability is not a remedy of, say, PoW complexity. As for now if you are not a reach guy you won't have a chance to form a single block without a huge mining farm. In other words, the problem lays not just in Blockchain it concerns with other surrounding techs.
 

Such pessimistic views are easy to put forward but blockchain is being used by a lot of startups. Those raising money through ICOs etc. Providing  banking services (Bankex), Removing middlemen between buyers and companies (INS), even cloud computing (Golem, SONM etc)
So its an upcoming field. It'll have its winners and losers.

Agree!

[ranochigo]

Many thanks! Right!
From my point of view the blockchain scalability is not a remedy of, say, PoW complexity. As for now if you are not a reach guy you won't have a chance to form a single block without a huge mining farm. In other words, the problem lays not just in Blockchain it concerns with other surrounding techs.

There is no problem that requires an immediate solution. Proof of work is what secures Bitcoin and makes various attacks infeasible and expensive. It isn't bad that an average joe can't mine a block with their scale of hardware. If anything, it introduces the concept of scarcity and drives up the price. If an average joe can mine a block, what makes you think that an attacker with a small amount of resources can't attack Bitcoin?

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

[CryptoNeuron]

There is no problem that requires an immediate solution. Proof of work is what secures Bitcoin and makes various attacks infeasible and expensive. It isn't bad that an average joe can't mine a block with their scale of hardware. If anything, it introduces the concept of scarcity and drives up the price. If an average joe can mine a block, what makes you think that an attacker with a small amount of resources can't attack Bitcoin?

If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Right, but as for mining it is one of the most important things Satoshi emphasizes on in his paper "Bitcoin: Peer to peer ...". The most motivational factor to get Bitcoin Network afloat. But what do we have now?

So, from my point of view, we need a kind of crypto sphere where each registered user would have a chance to earn. Cause now, it is becoming a privilege.   

[CryptoNeuron]

i believe the thing you are saying aren't the relevant ones, coz to practically speaking if you will be transfering Satoshis which i mean really small amount of satoshis. I believe the transaction fee you will be incurring will not be worth it. Make sense dude.

Yep, if you mean a transfer in millisatoshi. But if you end up each day with thousands of satoshi transfers, it will depend ...

[Xynerise]

The fees will always be on a % of the value a blockchain transaction and not a number as the % will then be divided to the miners.

That is NOT how bitcoin fees work.
Fees do NOT depend on the value of the Bitcoins being sent so they are NOT a "percentage of the value" but mostly on the inputs of the transaction.
It is entirely possible to have a transaction where the fees are greater than the amount being transacted.

[Anti-Cen]

Why are you comparing bitcoin functionality with that of your investment adviser/ personal banker??!

Lightning Network is a system of banks but they call them hubs and try to hide behind technical talk and academic
smog but no mater what why you cut the cake they are banks and here is the map of the inter bank connections being set up ready
to receive fee paying customers  https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/