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Author Topic: What if I owned 1.234;567;89 BTC instead of 1.23456789 BTC?  (Read 7096 times)
GOB
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September 20, 2013, 02:22:11 PM
 #21

I say thats a very good idea, the best option would be to use semi colons instead of extra points as peopl could mistake that for commas.

Thanks marcotheminer!

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og kush420
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September 20, 2013, 10:29:16 PM
 #22

do you guys think it is time to move the decimal back 1?

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September 22, 2013, 05:43:13 PM
 #23

I don't like using SI prefixes with the Bitcoin unit -- they don't work naturally with Bitcoin's 8 decimals of precision. How about 1.23456789? Read as: "One bitcoin, 2345 bitgrains (or whatever), 6789 satoshi."

It'd also be OK to use SI prefixes with the satoshi unit. So 1 BTC would be equal to 100 Msat.

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September 22, 2013, 06:11:35 PM
 #24

For instance "one bitcoin and two thousand, three hundred and forty five 10,000ths of a bitcoin" using the convention you suggest:
a Spaniard would write: 1,234.5
an English person would write: 1.234,5

That may well be correct but I've never seen anyone ever do that (speaking as a Brit and someone who studied maths to the age of 18).

It looks very strange to me to use a comma after having used a point. I would simply write 1.2345

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September 28, 2013, 12:42:19 PM
 #25

Having a currency with 8 decimals is fantastic, but it can and does lead to confusion. Couldn't we use the same concept we use to the left of the decimal point (i.e. $1,000,000.00) for the right side of the decimal point (i.e. BTC0.000,001  or 123.456,789 BTC)?

My questions are:

1) Do you think this is a good idea?

2) Is it possible to code in a simple way to display numbers like this? Or would it be a clusterfuck?


PS: If this has been addressed, or you think it's a very stupid idea, please be gentle. I couldn't find a discussion on this.


The code is available at https://github.com/shawnpringle/electrum .   Checkout the d.ddd branch.  As for not using commas you can change the thousands separator in the Windows' control panel.  I think there may be a KDE control panel option for this.  I set the thousands separator to a single space in MS Windows and all of the numbers had a space every three digits not just in Electrum but in other apps too.  Are you a C++ dev?


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September 29, 2013, 06:17:38 PM
 #26

How about trying something new like....

1.234,,567,,89

Or

1.234;456;78

Display as Bitcoin Satoshis

BS12,345,678

Although BS might make too many of us giggle so...

SB12,345,678

Or just 12,346,678 sat. That's the same abbreviation that Dragon's Tale uses, and to be honest it's a pretty decent abbreviation which looks pretty nice.
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September 30, 2013, 10:01:53 AM
 #27

why choose 3 as a place for seperators....why not one after 4 places as in 1.2345,6789

much easier IMO although I prefer none

on that note ,realize that in usd , the value to make  the last digit worth even a cent has to surpass

drumroll...1 mil !

a dime       "      0.1         "    "    "      "            (at startup)
1 usd                0.01                                      (few tears ago)
10 usd              0.001                                    (recently)
100usd renders 0.0001 equal to one cent         (currently)
1,000usd          0.00001                                 (possibly)
10,000usd        0.000001                                not likely
100,000usd      0.0000001                              dollar died by this time
1million usd      0.0000,0001                           no contest- btc declared world currency

therefore anyone betting in the last four digits are joking around wasting time or expecting future winnings to be  worth  a few thousand dollars if the last scenario happens. betting at the fifth level and waiting for economic armegeddon might be worth it   but most likley no one w food gives a rats ass about btc and people are knifing each other for that to happen!

btw is that an android v 20 you've got there (stab,stab!)

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September 30, 2013, 06:06:00 PM
 #28

To be honest, I think that 3/4 d.p separators aren't needed. For BTC, you can use something such as 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in cBTC) or 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in mBTC in the future) for the wallet display. You have the main money (mBTC, think dollars) shown in full text, and the other chump change is in superscript (think cents).
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October 01, 2013, 03:03:29 AM
 #29

yeah, chump change in superscript is a good idea..i think ill use that in the future

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October 01, 2013, 06:07:32 AM
 #30

(Or, as theymos said, you can use subscript i.e 0.123456789 or 0.123456789. It's pretty much a matter of personal preference, inputs.io scripts the last 6 decimal places.)
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October 01, 2013, 05:15:06 PM
 #31

Having a currency with 8 decimals is fantastic, but it can and does lead to confusion. Couldn't we use the same concept we use to the left of the decimal point (i.e. $1,000,000.00) for the right side of the decimal point (i.e. BTC0.000,001  or 123.456,789 BTC)?

My questions are:

1) Do you think this is a good idea?

2) Is it possible to code in a simple way to display numbers like this? Or would it be a clusterfuck?


PS: If this has been addressed, or you think it's a very stupid idea, please be gentle. I couldn't find a discussion on this.


The code is available at https://github.com/shawnpringle/electrum .   Checkout the d.ddd branch.  As for not using commas you can change the thousands separator in the Windows' control panel.  I think there may be a KDE control panel option for this.  I set the thousands separator to a single space in MS Windows and all of the numbers had a space every three digits not just in Electrum but in other apps too.  Are you a C++ dev?



Hey I'm flattered you'd think I'm a C++ dev, but I'm not. I'm not a dev/coder/programmer at all. Unfortunately.

As for what you wrote, it seems you are referring to thousands separator. I'm proposing coming up with a new standard for a thousandTHS separator. What do you think of that? How hard would it be to implement?

"Bitcoin is to bank transfers, credit cards & Paypal, as Email is to letters, faxes & FedEx." 1BAMFrk1qJai5u7UnrhDXoBudGwbYynams
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October 01, 2013, 05:20:02 PM
 #32

why choose 3 as a place for seperators....why not one after 4 places as in 1.2345,6789

True, this is a possibility, and it makes a lot of sense since there's 8 digits to the right of the decimal in Bitcoin. However, my idea was to keep it consistent with most culture's customs when it comes to the thousands separator to the left of the decimal.

"Bitcoin is to bank transfers, credit cards & Paypal, as Email is to letters, faxes & FedEx." 1BAMFrk1qJai5u7UnrhDXoBudGwbYynams
GOB
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October 01, 2013, 05:27:22 PM
 #33

why choose 3 as a place for seperators....why not one after 4 places as in 1.2345,6789

much easier IMO although I prefer none

on that note ,realize that in usd , the value to make  the last digit worth even a cent has to surpass

drumroll...1 mil !

a dime       "      0.1         "    "    "      "            (at startup)
1 usd                0.01                                      (few tears ago)
10 usd              0.001                                    (recently)
100usd renders 0.0001 equal to one cent         (currently)
1,000usd          0.00001                                 (possibly)
10,000usd        0.000001                                not likely
100,000usd      0.0000001                              dollar died by this time
1million usd      0.0000,0001                           no contest- btc declared world currency

therefore anyone betting in the last four digits are joking around wasting time or expecting future winnings to be  worth  a few thousand dollars if the last scenario happens. betting at the fifth level and waiting for economic armegeddon might be worth it   but most likley no one w food gives a rats ass about btc and people are knifing each other for that to happen!

btw is that an android v 20 you've got there (stab,stab!)

Please note that my point here isn't that this is necessary because we're going to 1BTC=$1 million soon. Rather, my point is that we, as bitcoiners, are dealing with numbers with 8 decimal places on a regular basis now, for a variety of reasons. Perhaps there is no tradition for thousandths  separators as there is for thousands separators because there simply hasn't been much of need for it till now.

I'll give you one example that I run into every day: betting on Just-Dice. Which is bet is larger? 0.0000120 or 0.00000875? I know you can count the zeros, but it wasn't obvious at first glance, was it? Now look at the column of bets on just dice. True, a bet of a couple hundred satoshi is just as insignificant in dollars as a bet of a few thousand satoshi, but one is 10x the other. If you're running a bot to martingale (for example), slipping up on one zero can make a world of difference.

This is the very reason we have thousands separators: it makes it easier to identify numbers with a quick glance (what's larger? 23402455945 or 6942382230? What if I asked like this: 23,402,455,945 or 6,942,382,230?)

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October 01, 2013, 05:32:18 PM
 #34

To be honest, I think that 3/4 d.p separators aren't needed. For BTC, you can use something such as 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in cBTC) or 1.23456789 (if people mainly deal in mBTC in the future) for the wallet display. You have the main money (mBTC, think dollars) shown in full text, and the other chump change is in superscript (think cents).

I like the superscript. This is how inputs.io shows BTC (I mentioned this in a post above).

However, my reasoning with trying to find a symbol is to make it more universal. A semicolon is easily found on any keyboard and can be easily added in line to any number regardless of the whether it's plaintext or not, if superscript of subscript is available, etc. etc.

As for it being chump change, again, that is correct, but in some contexts the 10x difference between 0.00000002 and 0.0000002 could be huge (for example, a bet on Just Dice, or say if that's the payment per click for some service, etc.).

Now if those numbers are written as 0.000;000;02 and 0.000;000;2 the difference in magnitude is immediately obvious, no?

"Bitcoin is to bank transfers, credit cards & Paypal, as Email is to letters, faxes & FedEx." 1BAMFrk1qJai5u7UnrhDXoBudGwbYynams
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October 15, 2013, 12:35:01 PM
 #35

The superscript is kind of a disaster.  Is it possible to have 1.23456789 ?   That is a huge number.  Like owing one dollar and being charged 23% over 456,000 years with compound interest.  The balance you pay would be 1.23456789.  I know commas are disliked by people for use as thousands separators but you could use spaces instead.  It's all in your Windows control panel and it is also settable in Linux.  I think it is an environment variable.  As for internationalization, by default my Electrum fork pulls the preference from the locale preferences.   That means:

The number 1000000.42312 is displayed as 1,000,000.423,12 in the default config for US Windows and 1.000.000,423.12 in Spain or 1 000 000.423 12 (which is an S.I. convention) if you set up your computer to display numbers this way.  You may specify any character: Semicolons, at symbols or exclamation points.  There is no superscripting character in Unicode, in spite of Unicode containing things like poker cards and a picture of a baby.

Download it at : https://github.com/shawnpringle/electrum

Shawn


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