Ripple starts to conquer the world from China

[Stephen Gornick]

Incidentally, there's going to be a Ripple Dev Con following the large emerging payments conference Money2020 (October 6-10, 2013), in Vegas.  The Dev Con is October 10th.
 - https://ripple.com/blog/win-free-tickets-to-the-exclusive-money2020-ripple-developer-conference-and-50000-xrp/

[nameface]

the people who take out Western Union with a disruptive network...
Will be people who go to India and Mexico and China...
And build offices and Dev Teams on the ground in the Third World.

NOT candy asses who attend Panels in Silicon Valley...
And fly 1st class between SF and NYC.

I dig your sentiment and I agree with you. But these "people who take out..." will probably use Ripple, Bitcoin, and whatever other tools are at their disposal. I'm picturing a new global Hawala-like system building out of the old Hawala system and the Western financial system. There will be no single system (Bitcoin, Ripple, etc.), or single service (Western Union), so less limitations and points of failure.

The point is that the work OpenCoin is doing is very important. There are gateways in China, USA, Europe, Canada, Sweden, and soon England. If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

No they won't the transaction server is closed source and only runs on OpenCoin owned hardware.   

[nameface]

If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

No they won't the transaction server is closed source and only runs on OpenCoin owned hardware.   

Incorrect. Ripple runs on ~100 servers now.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

No they won't the transaction server is closed source and only runs on OpenCoin owned hardware.  

Incorrect. Ripple runs on ~100 servers now.

Provide a link to the download.  Saying there are 100 servers is meaningless.   Google's search engine runs on thousands of servers.  It makes about as much sense to say "if the conduct of Google, Inc is a problem at least the world will have their [Google, Inc] technology".  No they won't if access is restricted.

Do I really need to clarify with "OpenCoin and approved lackeys"?

[QuantPlus]

the people who take out Western Union with a disruptive network...
Will be people who go to India and Mexico and China...
And build offices and Dev Teams on the ground in the Third World.

NOT candy asses who attend Panels in Silicon Valley...
And fly 1st class between SF and NYC.

I dig your sentiment and I agree with you. But these "people who take out..." will probably use Ripple, Bitcoin, and whatever other tools are at their disposal. I'm picturing a new global Hawala-like system building out of the old Hawala system and the Western financial system. There will be no single system (Bitcoin, Ripple, etc.), or single service (Western Union), so less limitations and points of failure.

The point is that the work OpenCoin is doing is very important. There are gateways in China, USA, Europe, Canada, Sweden, and soon England. If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

I spent about 2 months studying Ripple...
And made about 500-1000 trades XRP/BTC and XRP/USD in May-June...
I was doing about 1% of XRP volume as a Market Maker...
(Which I do for a living on the NYSE since the 90s).

I was left very unimpressed by Ripple and OpenCoin...
All these "gateways" are Mickey Mouse 1-2 person operations...
With the single exception of Bitstamp which is 100% dependent on the Croation banking system...
So the only source of USD on the Ripple is one Croatian bank with a UK branch.

It gets worse...
Because many of these "gateway" are small legacy Ripple Classic operations...
Who are philosophically at odds with everything corporate OpenCoin stands for...
They are Trojan Horses waiting for the servers to be Open Sourced so they can fork away.

This is the whole community LETS sub-culture...
IMO, LETS is a classic example of a "solution in search of a problem"...
It's never caught on in modern urban culture... and never will.

Both the Ripple network and Ripple Forum are Ghost Towns...
A good measure of the health of the network is XRP trading volume...
Which is down 70-80% since I was trading in May...
Those 25,000 accounts they brag about are dormant...
Virtually all Ripple activity is OC, Devs, and a few dozen traders.

The company I was thinking of that, unlike OpenCoin...
IS ACTUALLY GOING TO THE THIRD WORLD to take on WU...
Is this article below... while I see that OC is hosting yet another swanky conference.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/20/buttercoin/
In order to take on WU

[nameface]

http://Ripple.com has a new look and new features. You can see the ledgers and trading volume and transactions now.

It gets worse...
Because many of these "gateway" are small legacy Ripple Classic operations...
Who are philosophically at odds with everything corporate OpenCoin stands for...
They are Trojan Horses waiting for the servers to be Open Sourced so they can fork away.

This isn't true. I think only http://RippleUnion.com was built by Ripple Classic users, and I know them personally, they are not planning to "fork away"
Also, this idea of forking the network is a bit of a joke. Nobody will use a payment network that amounts to "Zipple - the FAKE Ripple".

IMO, LETS is a classic example of a "solution in search of a problem"...

At least these features are baked in to Ripple. They could end up being more useful in the future.

The company I was thinking of that, unlike OpenCoin...
IS ACTUALLY GOING TO THE THIRD WORLD to take on WU...
Is this article below... while I see that OC is hosting yet another swanky conference.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/20/buttercoin/
In order to take on WU

Very very cool. Why wouldn't they use Ripple in some instances if it was cheaper or easier?

OpenCoin's attendance at conferences like http://Money2020.com is crucial and will be good for the future of the entire virtual currency industry. The fact that this conference is being held in a nice venue in Las Vegas and not a bombed-out apartment block in Mogadishu doesn't take anything away from Ripple.

[AmazonStuff]

It's always hard to accept the change and Ripple is a change and it's change to better, next step in the crypto-currency revolution.
First time, I saw a bitcoin, I said this is not a solution for my problem, this has no future... Boy, I was wrong So, I can understand why many people have doubts about Ripple.

Main thing that makes Bitcoin vulnerable are exchange websites. One, could say, so what... Bitcoin can work without exchanges, but that is wrong, they are needed in order for Bitcoin to be successful, it would be really hard to determine btc value without them, so btc would probably lose clients and it's value really fast.

What is the point of having P2P crypto-currency, when you don't have a P2P exchange? Then, it's not P2P and when it's not P2P, it's not de-centralized.
Ripple comes to BTC as it's best friend and solves BTC main problem by integrating exchanges into P2P network.
Bitcoin and Ripple are completely complementary tools, they are not confronted at all.

P2P is the essence...

P2P content ---> P2P money ---> P2P money + every possible currency + exchanges --->

Thank you Satoshi, you are a genius

[yvv]

If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

No they won't the transaction server is closed source and only runs on OpenCoin owned hardware.   

Both statements are false.

[yvv]

Provide a link to the download.  

There is no link to download, neither sources nor binaries. The server was not released to public yet. Only limited number of testers (~100) have currently access to rippled. It will be released to public when it will be stable enough. It is a normal way of software development.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If the distribution of XRP and the conduct of OpenCoin is a problem, at least the world will have their technology.

No they won't the transaction server is closed source and only runs on OpenCoin owned hardware.  

Both statements are false.

Yet you admit in the next post that the transaction server IS closed source and only available to approved lackeys of OpenCoin.  Replaced "owned" with "approved".  Nobody runs the closed source binaries with OpenCoins experess permission.  Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason. 

Closed source and absolute central control of the network.   Ripple is PayPal 2.0.

[yvv]

Yet you admit in the next post that the transaction server IS closed source and only available to approved lackeys of OpenCoin. Replaced "owned" with "approved".  Nobody runs the closed source binaries with OpenCoins experess permission.  Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

Closed source and absolute central control of the network.   Ripple is PayPal 2.0.

It is not closed sourced, it is not released yet. Neither sources no binaries are available to public. Currently, it is a very unstable piece of software which is not ready for release. When it will be released, no permission will be necessary to use it. Ripple has nothing in common with PayPal. Ripple aims to be a distributed currency exchange.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yet you admit in the next post that the transaction server IS closed source and only available to approved lackeys of OpenCoin. Replaced "owned" with "approved".  Nobody runs the closed source binaries with OpenCoins experess permission.  Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason.

Closed source and absolute central control of the network.   Ripple is PayPal 2.0.

It is not closed sourced, it is not released yet. Neither sources no binaries are available to public. Currently, it is a very unstable piece of software which is not ready for release. When it will be released, no permission will be necessary to use it. Ripple has nothing in common with PayPal. Ripple aims to be a distributed currency exchange.

IT IS CLOSED SOURCE.  That is the DEFINITION of closed source.  It is a centrally controlled proprietary network.  The fact that the company has made some vague promises to release the code to the public at some unknown future date doesn't make it open source. If Microsoft promised they would make the source code of some future version of Windows on some future unnamed date would that make Windows "open source" today?  Of course not.  

Servers run closed source binaries only with limited and revocable permission of the central authority (OpenCoin).  The only transactions servers that exist are the ones that OpenCoin has allowed to operate (and can revoke at any point in the future).
What exactly would you call that other than closed source and centrally controlled proprietary network? The fact that it may (or may not) change in the future doesn't negate the reality today.

[yvv]

IT IS CLOSED SOURCE.  

Show me the LICENSE?

That is the DEFINITION of closed source.

You have WRONG DEFINITION. Terms of use of any software are specified in software license upon the release. Ripple server WAS NOT RELEASED YET. Neither under opened nor under closed license. PERIOD.

YOU UNDERSTAND?
  
P.S. Does it make it more clear for you if I use a lot of capital letters and bold text?

[STT]

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

[DeathAndTaxes]

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

That same way PayPal is secure; OpenCoin acts as a central authority.  They maintain "the books".  Mining is only necessary to achieve consensus among untrusted peers.
On PayPal if their servers say you have $100 then you have $100 and if they say you don't then you don't.  Ripple is no different. 

[yvv]

Permission which can be revoked at any point in the future for any reason. 

By the way, how do you plan to revoke sources from 100 of groups which have them now?

[yvv]

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

https://ripple.com/wiki/Consensus

[DeathAndTaxes]

IT IS CLOSED SOURCE.  

Show me the LICENSE?

That is the DEFINITION of closed source.

You have WRONG DEFINITION. Terms of use of any software are specified in software license upon the release. Ripple server WAS NOT RELEASED YET. Neither under opened nor under closed license. PERIOD.

YOU UNDERSTAND?
  
P.S. Does it make it more clear for you if I use a lot of capital letters and bold text?

That is a dubious distinction.  It has been "released" the network is in use.  If it was an internal closed testnet only by companies employees that would be one thing but the network has been released to the public.  Real transactions are occuring everyday and they are occuring on proprietary transaction servers running closed source code.

Lets take your logic to the extreme.  Say 10 years have passed and the source code hasn't been made available "yet".  Is it still an "open source project"?  Yes or no.  If yes how about 5 years? 3 years? 1 year?

Open Source is open source.  If the binaries are not released under an open license and the source code made available then it isn't open source.  Period.  By the Open Source Initiative (http://opensource.org/), the Ripple server is not open source.  Hell by the definition of anyone other than a fanboy the Ripple Server is NOT open source.  Even Ripple (and supporters) don't claim the server is open source ... BECAUSE IT ISN'T.   The mere promise/claim of future open source doesn't make something open source.

[AmazonStuff]

How is ripple secure if nobody is mining/hashing it

Ripple is completely secure, here's more visual example, how Ripple Consensus works:
http://vimeo.com/64405422