[ANN] [TRTL] TurtleCoin - Cowabunga Dudes!

[Lovecove]

There seems to be a lot of confusion/misinformation spreading around but hopefully I can clarify some things.

1. We turned 2 months on Jan 9th, about 4 days ago.
2. No ICO, no premine, no funding of any kind. All devs and contributors are volunteers though we try our best to reward appropriately with TurtleCoin for everyone's hard work. We announced the coin on a popular and well known privacy forum. Word spread immediately.
3. The updated versions are not 'random' or 'emergency updates' scrambling in the fae of immature code. A security vulnerability that affects *many* cryptonotes was discovered, we fixed it and followed proper disclosure procedures. https://medium.com/@turtlecoin/mess-with-the-best-759c1fd230b1. We do not have a fixed release cycle, we roll out releases when we feel updates are sufficient and we continue to work to incrementally improve various pieces of the software such as difficulty calculation, user experience of simple wallet, correcting bugs, and security enhancements.
4. Neither TradeOgre or TradeSatoshi are in our control. TradeOgre has had some downtimes here and there but seems to come back reliably. Our dev team has worked with TradeSatoshi and provided updates to help address the issues. We apologize for the inconvenience but it is not in our control.
5. We are looking at getting added to some decentralized exchanges currently.

-Bebop

1. Ooookay, what is this? Turned 2 months 4 days ago on January 9? It's FEBRUARY 14! Or are you actually correcting editfmah, who is the co-lead dev, and apparently isn't aware of his own nascent project's release? My heavens. The shenanigans are apparent right from this thread.
2. If you don't allow any kind of funding, even donations from the community, how in all the bitcoin blazes will you ever get any exchange listing fees paid? Will you just expect Bittrex and Binance to list turtle of their own good spirit?
3. There's some drama around the cryptonite "hack" that involved admin betrayal. As stated aforementioned, I shant go into the details. But to my understanding, none of the other "cryptonite coins" shared your urgency. In fact, they simply ignored your requests for contact. Retrospectively, seems iffy that they were affected in the slightest. Sounds likely twas a turtlecoin problem that emergency PR tried to desensitize by making it a "cryptonite coin" problem. Fumble coding? And now you're trying to lump your emergency updates about balances not showing up as just part of a "routine update." You needed these two exchanges to update their turtlecoin software at least twice this week and that doesn't include the cryptonite debacle. We can read between the lines.
4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

But thanks for your clarification. Only begs more inquiries.

1 > What?  Sorry not lead dev or co lead dev or anything of the sort.  Didn't even start mining until mid January when I created my first wallet.  Mainly because i'm a mac user, and I couldn't get the stack to compile in the early days, and I had other stuff on.  Sure I was looking into a different type of coin with RockSteady before this one, but sadly (and it is a regret), I wasn't in as early as maybe I could have been.

3 > Yes the other coins don't care that you can shut down daemons remotely or make calls to transfer coins from wallets just openly and without any kind of security if you expose your rpc service to the internet, or pick up malware that will do the same.  Sure, the answer is lock it down yourself, but some devs felt it was  a security hole.  Having researched what happened, someone on the discord gave their friend admin privileges, and they thought they would make a big splash announcement, then buy up the coins.  It was hardly subversion of the highest kind. 

I think an important note here, is that if you don't understand that this coin is a fork, and that mean sharing code with ByteCoin, and you don't understand how that (for 99.8% of the codebase) means the same faults, then you probably should not cast aspersions that this is a TurtleCoin fault.

Seriously, if you don't know anything about the problem, where it was, what it affected, how it was fixed? Then why would you post that sentence here, it pretty much tells us (and everyone reading this) what we need to know about your motivations.  I try to remain civil, but this has become like arguing with a flat earther from the standpoint of total ignorance and ill-education.

As far as i'm aware, only one update was communicated to the exchanges, as they were already on the other "change of diff" codebase already, that was for other people running old 2.x.x software.

4 > There is nothing neutral about your viewpoint, your post is full on huge inaccuracies and stuff we read on the Discord channel that is anything but fact.  I am hardly anonymous, any kind fo search of my username and you can find out who I am and where I live without any problem.

Trade satoshi was the one mentioned on Discord the most, at the time.  In hindsight, maybe another one might have been better, maybe none at all, what is done is done.

1. ...You are seriously saying that out of the two lead devs who created turtlecoin, 0 of them made the Bitcointalk ANN. But you, who just admitted neither being a co-dev or anything of the sort. Let's put aside the OP turtlecoin announcement posted by you... You've been speaking authoratively on turtlecoin, as though writing in an official capacity. But when you're erroneous, you fall back on the position, oh hold on, I am not any sort of admin.. Exactly how much of a joke is turtle[Suspicious link removed]d thing you can skip out if it really does turn to uber shit, and a fortunate deed you weren't Rocksteady's co.
3. It's all just more excuses. It's a repeating occurrence with this coin, like some kind of doom oscillator. Bad things happen, credible excuses ensue.. How you're explaining admin betrayal that well, I don't know. I commend your PR abilities. Same with the “cryptonite” endeavor: Yes, we admit the other cryptonite coins didn't care. But that's because they're stupid. I'll lean toward the interpretation that this “hack” affected turtlecoin more, if not exclusively.
4. Lashing out desperately at me is a classic sign of weakness. Weakness of turtlecoin, weakness of the overall community, inter alia. I have not once thrown insults around, just made my observations, but the OP of the turtlecoin ANN is calling me a “flat earther” because of the exposure. Look around other ANN threads, I'm concisely confident none of their OPs have done the same toward "dissenters."

If you're that bothered by my observations, then it's a clear symptom of an inherent problem, perhaps even a technological one with turtle.

To not aggravate the issue, I'm taking a breather from this thread. No need for things to get ugly. I will still watch this project, hope the devs can pull their pants up and together.

[1715351039]

1715351039

[1715351039]

1715351039

[1715351039]

1715351039

[editfmah]

There seems to be a lot of confusion/misinformation spreading around but hopefully I can clarify some things.

1. We turned 2 months on Jan 9th, about 4 days ago.
2. No ICO, no premine, no funding of any kind. All devs and contributors are volunteers though we try our best to reward appropriately with TurtleCoin for everyone's hard work. We announced the coin on a popular and well known privacy forum. Word spread immediately.
3. The updated versions are not 'random' or 'emergency updates' scrambling in the fae of immature code. A security vulnerability that affects *many* cryptonotes was discovered, we fixed it and followed proper disclosure procedures. https://medium.com/@turtlecoin/mess-with-the-best-759c1fd230b1. We do not have a fixed release cycle, we roll out releases when we feel updates are sufficient and we continue to work to incrementally improve various pieces of the software such as difficulty calculation, user experience of simple wallet, correcting bugs, and security enhancements.
4. Neither TradeOgre or TradeSatoshi are in our control. TradeOgre has had some downtimes here and there but seems to come back reliably. Our dev team has worked with TradeSatoshi and provided updates to help address the issues. We apologize for the inconvenience but it is not in our control.
5. We are looking at getting added to some decentralized exchanges currently.

-Bebop

1. Ooookay, what is this? Turned 2 months 4 days ago on January 9? It's FEBRUARY 14! Or are you actually correcting editfmah, who is the co-lead dev, and apparently isn't aware of his own nascent project's release? My heavens. The shenanigans are apparent right from this thread.
2. If you don't allow any kind of funding, even donations from the community, how in all the bitcoin blazes will you ever get any exchange listing fees paid? Will you just expect Bittrex and Binance to list turtle of their own good spirit?
3. There's some drama around the cryptonite "hack" that involved admin betrayal. As stated aforementioned, I shant go into the details. But to my understanding, none of the other "cryptonite coins" shared your urgency. In fact, they simply ignored your requests for contact. Retrospectively, seems iffy that they were affected in the slightest. Sounds likely twas a turtlecoin problem that emergency PR tried to desensitize by making it a "cryptonite coin" problem. Fumble coding? And now you're trying to lump your emergency updates about balances not showing up as just part of a "routine update." You needed these two exchanges to update their turtlecoin software at least twice this week and that doesn't include the cryptonite debacle. We can read between the lines.
4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

But thanks for your clarification. Only begs more inquiries.

1 > What?  Sorry not lead dev or co lead dev or anything of the sort.  Didn't even start mining until mid January when I created my first wallet.  Mainly because i'm a mac user, and I couldn't get the stack to compile in the early days, and I had other stuff on.  Sure I was looking into a different type of coin with RockSteady before this one, but sadly (and it is a regret), I wasn't in as early as maybe I could have been.

3 > Yes the other coins don't care that you can shut down daemons remotely or make calls to transfer coins from wallets just openly and without any kind of security if you expose your rpc service to the internet, or pick up malware that will do the same.  Sure, the answer is lock it down yourself, but some devs felt it was  a security hole.  Having researched what happened, someone on the discord gave their friend admin privileges, and they thought they would make a big splash announcement, then buy up the coins.  It was hardly subversion of the highest kind.  

I think an important note here, is that if you don't understand that this coin is a fork, and that mean sharing code with ByteCoin, and you don't understand how that (for 99.8% of the codebase) means the same faults, then you probably should not cast aspersions that this is a TurtleCoin fault.

Seriously, if you don't know anything about the problem, where it was, what it affected, how it was fixed? Then why would you post that sentence here, it pretty much tells us (and everyone reading this) what we need to know about your motivations.  I try to remain civil, but this has become like arguing with a flat earther from the standpoint of total ignorance and ill-education.

As far as i'm aware, only one update was communicated to the exchanges, as they were already on the other "change of diff" codebase already, that was for other people running old 2.x.x software.

4 > There is nothing neutral about your viewpoint, your post is full on huge inaccuracies and stuff we read on the Discord channel that is anything but fact.  I am hardly anonymous, any kind fo search of my username and you can find out who I am and where I live without any problem.

Trade satoshi was the one mentioned on Discord the most, at the time.  In hindsight, maybe another one might have been better, maybe none at all, what is done is done.

1. ...You are seriously saying that out of the two lead devs who created turtlecoin, 0 of them made the Bitcointalk ANN. But you, who just admitted neither being a co-dev or anything of the sort. Let's put aside the OP turtlecoin announcement posted by you... You've been speaking authoratively on turtlecoin, as though writing in an official capacity. But when you're erroneous, you fall back on the position, oh hold on, I am not any sort of admin.. Exactly how much of a joke is turtle[Suspicious link removed]d thing you can skip out if it really does turn to uber shit, and a fortunate deed you weren't Rocksteady's co.
3. It's all just more excuses. It's a repeating occurrence with this coin, like some kind of doom oscillator. Bad things happen, credible excuses ensue.. How you're explaining admin betrayal that well, I don't know. I commend your PR abilities. Same with the “cryptonite” endeavor: Yes, we admit the other cryptonite coins didn't care. But that's because they're stupid. I'll lean toward the interpretation that this “hack” affected turtlecoin more, if not exclusively.
4. Lashing out desperately at me is a classic sign of weakness. Weakness of turtlecoin, weakness of the overall community, inter alia. I have not once thrown insults around, just made my observations, but the OP of the turtlecoin ANN is calling me a “flat earther” because of the exposure. Look around other ANN threads, I'm concisely confident none of their OPs have done the same toward "dissenters."

If you're that bothered by my observations, then it's a clear symptom of an inherent problem, perhaps even a technological one with turtle.

To not aggravate the issue, I'm taking a breather from this thread. No need for things to get ugly. I will still watch this project, hope the devs can pull their pants up and together.

Okay that is a fair point I should not have lost my cool and made a semi-personal attack on you after you basically rubbished mine and other devs contributions and called us liars, my mistake.

I am an admin, on here and on discord, i've known Rocksteady for about 8 months, we met over at Aeon.  I just said I was not the lead or co-lead.  I nominated myself to do the ANN, all open and public on the GitHub issues forum, you are welcome to check it out.

I am generally not bothered by your observations as they are not accurate, or are not relevant to our coin.  Sure we didn't ICO, sure we didn't get investment.  We are cool with that.

This has indeed turned snarky and not-professional again, so I too am happy to leave it, as I have code to write (shitty keyboard fumbles no doubt).

[themaxx]

I think it's pretty simple - if you think it's a scam, move on - there are millions of altcoins out there, this isn't the last altcoin ever created.

[kellog9000]

Wallet Problem

MAXTRYERROR <<<---

what is this?

[cassavachips]

do need a translator ??

[air133]

Why is your site very similar to https://truckcoin.io

[alexmateescu]

HI guys.

New turtle mining pool: http://trtl.almsoft.net

[BitcoinGoat]

Why is your site very similar to https://truckcoin.io

Maybe because everyone uses the same template   

[bebopTC]

1. Ooookay, what is this? Turned 2 months 4 days ago on January 9? It's FEBRUARY 14! Or are you actually correcting editfmah, who is the co-lead dev, and apparently isn't aware of his own nascent project's release? My heavens. The shenanigans are apparent right from this thread.

Well not everyone is in the same timezone, it was still the 13th for me when I wrote that...   nah just a brainfart, February* 9th. Glad you're paying attention

2. If you don't allow any kind of funding, even donations from the community, how in all the bitcoin blazes will you ever get any exchange listing fees paid? Will you just expect Bittrex and Binance to list turtle of their own good spirit?

We never said we don't allow any kind of funding or donations. We have only said there was no ICO and that we have not done any fundraising to this point (which is still the case). In ful ltransparency, RockSteady did sell some special roles on discord for TurtleCoin to fund various efforts in the form of TRTL bounties, but that caused some issues and those people were all refunded. The bitcoin paid to get us on TradeSatoshi (now back online, btw) was bootstrapped by Rock also.

We have discussed various fundraising ideas and encourage the community to be entrepreneurs themselves. So far bounties and self-initiative from community members have accomplished a lot; we're happy with how it's going and hungry for more. This organic growth of very autonomous contributors seems quite scalable. We'll talk about more crowdfunding with the community if and when we feel it is necessary.

3. There's some drama around the cryptonite "hack" that involved admin betrayal. As stated aforementioned, I shant go into the details. But to my understanding, none of the other "cryptonite coins" shared your urgency. In fact, they simply ignored your requests for contact. Retrospectively, seems iffy that they were affected in the slightest. Sounds likely twas a turtlecoin problem that emergency PR tried to desensitize by making it a "cryptonite coin" problem. Fumble coding? And now you're trying to lump your emergency updates about balances not showing up as just part of a "routine update." You needed these two exchanges to update their turtlecoin software at least twice this week and that doesn't include the cryptonite debacle. We can read between the lines.

There is no drama around the forknote/bytecoin vulnerability. A moderator mistakenly gave a person access to a private channel and that person then posted a screenshot of discussion about the issue, not knowing the dev team had already followed proper disclosure procedure and reached out to other forknote/bytecoin developers as well as some downstream service operators. The person admitted the wrong doing and apologized, in public discord, and we changed our discord moderator system in response to that.

It is not within our purview whether or not other cryptonote developers choose to respond to the vulnerability. All we can do is appropriately inform them to the best of our abilities and provide the fix in our code. The issue was not at all unique to TurtleCoin code, it is present in many (all?) bytecoin and cryptonote reference forks. You can read about the issue in full here https://www.ayrx.me/cryptonote-unauthenticated-json-rpc

The "0 balance" issue was indeed deemed an urgent fix, but not because anyone's wallets or balances were affected. No wallets lost any coins, it was an issue related to simplewallet not properly syncing with the TurtleCoind daemon that was easily fixed by a manual sync (typing `reset` in the simplewallet console). We made an urgent fix of it because, despite not compromising wallets, it was at best a frequent annoyance and often a source of panic for many users who were unaware of the issue.

To your point though, we have been in lots of discussion this week about nailing down some of our processes to ensure code quality. We absolutely want to follow best practices and rely as much as possible on continuous integration with automated testing and building. If you think you can help in this area, or any other, we'd love to have you on board.

4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control.

This is a true and fair statement.

But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

I can say personally that I have no idea who is behind TradeOgre. Obviously whoever is behind it must have some interest and connection to TurtleCoin being that they popped up listing just us and a small number of other coins soon after we started, but that is really the extent to my knowledge. I have no way to prove this but I am least putting it out there in public testimony.

TradeSatoshi I think is a bit larger and under more eyes. I suppose it's possible we could be connected with them also though I will again say publicly I have no connection and am not aware of one with anyone in our dev team. We paid the fee and applied to get listed, went through a *lengthy* approval process that apparently riddled our community with anticipation, got listed and were put into an extensive maintenance mode shortly after. You can also see discussions between some of their devs and ours in the #dev_general channel on discord. All in all I think it's been a transparent process and doesn't exactly beam of inside connections and favoritism. As far as why tradesatoshi? Ultimately it came down to the people who paid and did the work made the choice of who they paid and what work they did. We're a doer's community. As far as I know there was indeed some open discussion about it, though admittedly I cannot specifically point to it.

As far as our anonymity, it is really only pseudo anonymous. Many of our core contributors and myself have appeared in person to present TurtleCoin at meetups. RockSteady and myself are known by many people. We just don't want it to be about that or about us; it's a PRIVACY coin and we don't see any benefit to forcing anyone to attach their identity to the work they contribute.

But thanks for your clarification. Only begs more inquiries.

Thank you, Lovecove, for expressing your concerns and making those inquiries. I appreciate your interest and willingness to participate in the discussion.

-bebop

[elusiveni]

Why is your site very similar to https://truckcoin.io

I have  seen a handful of sites with that exact template, it means... they bought the same template or used the same web designer lol
Or both have similar tastes, besides its professional

[AgentR]

visit that site, xn--e07d.com and see that turtle! Copy and paste him and you'll see it's a real font. I had to put punycode here because this server doesn't display it. A lot do. google, microsoft, apple all support it.

[matrixukr]

Wallet Problem
Wallet turtlecoin-v0.3.2

Code:

2018-Feb-16 00:15:36.108398 INFO    [protocol] [70.51.183.251:11897 OUT] Sync data returned unknown top block: 191046 -> 191202 [156 blocks (0 days) behind] 
2018-Feb-16 00:15:36.108398 INFO    [protocol] SYNCHRONIZATION started
2018-Feb-16 00:15:47.040039 INFO    [protocol] [70.176.140.29:11897 OUT] Sync data returned unknown top block: 191046 -> 191048 [2 blocks (0 days) behind] 
2018-Feb-16 00:15:47.040039 INFO    [protocol] SYNCHRONIZATION started
2018-Feb-16 00:15:47.657226 INFO    [protocol] [70.176.140.29:11897 OUT] SYNCHRONIZED OK
2018-Feb-16 00:15:53.331054 WARNING [Core] Proof of work too weak for block c775953062f05dae5a025d0e3a66cd5bca89b9295f1fc6eab0b1e2245442178f
2018-Feb-16 00:15:57.551757 INFO    [protocol] [86.153.214.184:11897 OUT] Sync data returned unknown top block: 191048 -> 191050 [2 blocks (0 days) behind] 
2018-Feb-16 00:15:57.551757 INFO    [protocol] SYNCHRONIZATION started
2018-Feb-16 00:15:59.388671 INFO    [protocol] [86.153.214.184:11897 OUT] SYNCHRONIZED OK
2018-Feb-16 00:16:19.584961 INFO    [protocol] [81.184.138.181:11897 OUT] Sync data returned unknown top block: 191050 -> 191206 [156 blocks (0 days) behind] 
2018-Feb-16 00:16:19.584961 INFO    [protocol] SYNCHRONIZATION started
2018-Feb-16 00:16:32.705078 WARNING [Core] Proof of work too weak for block c775953062f05dae5a025d0e3a66cd5bca89b9295f1fc6eab0b1e2245442178f
2018-Feb-16 00:16:44.271484 INFO    [protocol] [69.244.209.87:11897 OUT] Sync data returned unknown top block: 191050 -> 191206 [156 blocks (0 days) behind] 
2018-Feb-16 00:16:44.271484 INFO    [protocol] SYNCHRONIZATION started
2018-Feb-16 00:17:01.434570 WARNING [Core] Proof of work too weak for block c775953062f05dae5a025d0e3a66cd5bca89b9295f1fc6eab0b1e2245442178f

[Cassius]

4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

It is utterly ridiculous that you would expect the devs - or anyone - to waste time proving a negative. Your argument:
1) You're anon
2) You might have controlled listing on TS/manipulated price/caused the Global Financial Crisis/rigged the US election/killed JFK
3) Therefore the onus is on you to prove you didn't.

Seriously?
It's pretty staggering Bebop gave you the courtesy of answering you at all.

[Derfcoin]

4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

It is utterly ridiculous that you would expect the devs - or anyone - to waste time proving a negative. Your argument:
1) You're anon
2) You might have controlled listing on TS/manipulated price/caused the Global Financial Crisis/rigged the US election/killed JFK
3) Therefore the onus is on you to prove you didn't.

Seriously?
It's pretty staggering Bebop gave you the courtesy of answering you at all.

I've been researching new alts to get into. The unprofessionalism that goes on in this thread turned me off.

I'm not sure whether or not the collective negative responses coming from others who merely question some aspects of the coin, its events, and its anonymous creators are true or false.

However the coin's supporters reply calling these critics "flat earthers" and "JFK conspiracy theorists". It just makes the coin look more scammy.

I don't agree with anonymous developers for centralized crypto.

But from what I can tell, turtlecoin is doing the anon thing the correct way. They're trying to make a statement that it's not the devs who matter, but the coin's following. The devs ultimately don't have more power than the coin's active members.

But I'd like to offer a caveat to that as well. It seems as though only the two anonymous devs have the power to kick people from the turtlecoin discord. They took away all administration right from all mods and administrative.

If they can do that for the main community, they could just as easily do so for other aspects of the coin, including development.

Just a caveat. It's only decentralized on its face, it can go centralized with a few clicks

[Cassius]

4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

It is utterly ridiculous that you would expect the devs - or anyone - to waste time proving a negative. Your argument:
1) You're anon
2) You might have controlled listing on TS/manipulated price/caused the Global Financial Crisis/rigged the US election/killed JFK
3) Therefore the onus is on you to prove you didn't.

Seriously?
It's pretty staggering Bebop gave you the courtesy of answering you at all.

I've been researching new alts to get into. The unprofessionalism that goes on in this thread turned me off.

I'm not sure whether or not the collective negative responses coming from others who merely question some aspects of the coin, its events, and its anonymous creators are true or false.

However the coin's supporters reply calling these critics "flat earthers" and "JFK conspiracy theorists". It just makes the coin look more scammy.

I don't agree with anonymous developers for centralized crypto.

But from what I can tell, turtlecoin is doing the anon thing the correct way. They're trying to make a statement that it's not the devs who matter, but the coin's following. The devs ultimately don't have more power than the coin's active members.

But I'd like to offer a caveat to that as well. It seems as though only the two anonymous devs have the power to kick people from the turtlecoin discord. They took away all administration right from all mods and administrative.

If they can do that for the main community, they could just as easily do so for other aspects of the coin, including development.

Just a caveat. It's only decentralized on its face, it can go centralized with a few clicks

I think you missed my point. It's extremely difficult to prove a negative and frankly, why should they try? It was an odd thing to accuse devs of anyway, since most of the crypto world seems to spend 90% of their time clamouring for new exchanges.
TL;DR someone is always going to be upset about something. Just another day in crypto.

[Derfcoin]

4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

It is utterly ridiculous that you would expect the devs - or anyone - to waste time proving a negative. Your argument:
1) You're anon
2) You might have controlled listing on TS/manipulated price/caused the Global Financial Crisis/rigged the US election/killed JFK
3) Therefore the onus is on you to prove you didn't.

Seriously?
It's pretty staggering Bebop gave you the courtesy of answering you at all.

I've been researching new alts to get into. The unprofessionalism that goes on in this thread turned me off.

I'm not sure whether or not the collective negative responses coming from others who merely question some aspects of the coin, its events, and its anonymous creators are true or false.

However the coin's supporters reply calling these critics "flat earthers" and "JFK conspiracy theorists". It just makes the coin look more scammy.

I don't agree with anonymous developers for centralized crypto.

But from what I can tell, turtlecoin is doing the anon thing the correct way. They're trying to make a statement that it's not the devs who matter, but the coin's following. The devs ultimately don't have more power than the coin's active members.

But I'd like to offer a caveat to that as well. It seems as though only the two anonymous devs have the power to kick people from the turtlecoin discord. They took away all administration right from all mods and administrative.

If they can do that for the main community, they could just as easily do so for other aspects of the coin, including development.

Just a caveat. It's only decentralized on its face, it can go centralized with a few clicks

I think you missed my point. It's extremely difficult to prove a negative and frankly, why should they try? It was an odd thing to accuse devs of anyway, since most of the crypto world seems to spend 90% of their time clamouring for new exchanges.
TL;DR someone is always going to be upset about something. Just another day in crypto.

How is it hard to prove a negative?

"You were the one who robbed the bank"
"No, I was in xyz place and time during the robbery."
"You're behind a mass conspiracy."
"No. I haven't any connections but with a few powerless friends."
"You're the owner of tradesatoshi and tradeogre.`
"No. I'm not Mr. Johnny Depp or ms. Jane wright.:

[Cassius]

How is it hard to prove a negative?

"You were the one who robbed the bank"
"No, I was in xyz place and time playing with my toy turtle in the bath on my own, with no witnesses during the robbery."

"You're behind a mass conspiracy."
"No. I haven't any connections but with a few powerless friends. Of course it's hard to prove a lack of connections, and easy to conceal them and claim I don't have them. Meh, what can you do?"

"You're the owner of tradesatoshi and tradeogre.`
"No. I'm not Mr. Johnny Depp or ms. Jane wright. Honest. I'm sure you believe me. I take my privacy seriously enough that I won't provide a random stranger on the internet with my passport details to prove it. And why should I anyway? The onus is on him to prove wrongdoing, not make a wild claim and put me to the inconvenience. I'm pretty sure the principle 'Innocent until proven guilty' is there for a reason."

[editfmah]

4. With a neutral viewpoint, we can't say whether these two exchanges are under your control. But, then again, you two are anonymous devs, who knows what control you have in the first place. Was TradeSatoshi even an exchange that the consensus voted on? Or did the lead devs simply abruptly shove a btc into tradesatoshi to get it listed without any sort of community feedback? Surely the decentralized exchanges you're working on being added are cheaper than TradeSatoshi, if not free. I'm not certain why you would single out tradesatoshi as the exchange of choice. Surely alternative, better known exchanges could've been chosen with that same listing fee.

It is utterly ridiculous that you would expect the devs - or anyone - to waste time proving a negative. Your argument:
1) You're anon
2) You might have controlled listing on TS/manipulated price/caused the Global Financial Crisis/rigged the US election/killed JFK
3) Therefore the onus is on you to prove you didn't.

Seriously?
It's pretty staggering Bebop gave you the courtesy of answering you at all.

I've been researching new alts to get into. The unprofessionalism that goes on in this thread turned me off.

I'm not sure whether or not the collective negative responses coming from others who merely question some aspects of the coin, its events, and its anonymous creators are true or false.

However the coin's supporters reply calling these critics "flat earthers" and "JFK conspiracy theorists". It just makes the coin look more scammy.

I don't agree with anonymous developers for centralized crypto.

But from what I can tell, turtlecoin is doing the anon thing the correct way. They're trying to make a statement that it's not the devs who matter, but the coin's following. The devs ultimately don't have more power than the coin's active members.

But I'd like to offer a caveat to that as well. It seems as though only the two anonymous devs have the power to kick people from the turtlecoin discord. They took away all administration right from all mods and administrative.

If they can do that for the main community, they could just as easily do so for other aspects of the coin, including development.

Just a caveat. It's only decentralized on its face, it can go centralized with a few clicks

That is a fair point, and my unprofessionalism is a bit of an embarrassment.  In many ways I wish i'd never interacted in the first place, but removing my posts would be a far greater error in judgement right now.

I am sorry that this thread was such a negative for you, as obviously that was not the intention.  But I do take FUD and mis-truth very personally, and sadly I overreacted.

It is very hard to remain civil when you have been called a liar, or incompetent, but I certainly should have.  Maybe at the age of 40 I am still not mature enough to interact with people semi-anonymously on forums such as these.

I guess the thing I find the hardest is people taking a little grain of knowledge and filling in a whole backstory, which is in most cases completely fictional.  Then when trying to explain what actually happened (and things that can be verified), you get called a liar or that you are changing your story.  You end up going down a mine shaft of constantly retorting and trying to set records straight when actually, the arguments are impossible to answer as the response is always a change of question or an accusation.

I spent a long time writing the original [ANN] post, trying to explain that we are "just another clone", but with what we hope is the potential for more.  I was hoping to negate the barrage of abuse that nearly always accompanies an announcement here in this scenario.

But to be clear, I have no problem with people calling is a shitcoin, or a scam.  I mean realistically, it hurts a little ,but it also upsets the community that is working hard to build something. But, believe it or not, I am mature enough to understand that you can't win everyone over, and sometimes the only proof that will do is when the coin is still around and no-one has scammed anyone.  But people will form their own opinions and I am happy for that, it's a free world after all.

The reason I so fervently try to set the record straight is that people come here to learn about the coin, they see lots of FUD, lots of fictional opinion and it is just not helpful for anyone.  I mean the ability to make an RPC call to any running daemon with access without any kind of authentication is an absolute fact, unless you take steps to secure it yourself.  But then it still means you are vulnerable to malware attacks stealing your crypto.  For me it was a fairly simple statement, I was not expecting accusations, for the dev team to be vilified and for statements to be made that were overtly and provably inaccurate.

People will read those comments and think that the dev team is a joke, and that is a very personal thing for us as I simply don't believe that to be true.  There are some seriously talented people working on this, and it will take time, and it will be bumpy from time to time but ultimately we are moving forward and learning from all the mistakes that are made.

Anyhow, thanks for contributing to the discussion, it was a sobering read (and before that is brought up again, I don't even drink, it's just an expression).

[coke15]

hi

ok ,TS was not a help with x days in "maintenance",and tradeogre after...
btw,when the wallet where "ok" everybodi dump the trtl :/ so sad.

i hope the trtl price will grow and the dumper bite they're balls

[rascabily]

http://prntscr.com/iftyez
why no sincronice?