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Author Topic: Why bitcoins are hovering around $14  (Read 5618 times)
CurbsideProphet
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July 15, 2011, 12:01:23 AM
 #21

True that and really BTC has a huge ROI compared to any other investments right now.

Depends on when you invested.  If you did so at $17, let alone $30, your ROI is pretty bad right now.

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hello_good_sir
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July 15, 2011, 12:12:39 AM
 #22

Well, they figured out bytes, kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes and terabytes all right...

Oh really?  Walk down street and ask 10 people how many kilobytes are in a gigabyte.  No more than one person will get the answer correct.

Oh yes, because people will NEVER understand the change from $0.05 per apple to 5 cents per apple.

Once bitcoin is very well established people will have no trouble with having 2-3 different units in the mix.  We do not live in that time.  As it is right now bitcents are also a reasonable unit to use, because of the similarity with the dollar.

It's not much harder for me to understand 1.00100 than it is to understand 1,001.00

You are in the top 10% of mathematical ability, most people would have trouble with that.  That said the next group of people that we need to reach (hip urban people) would have not too much trouble with 1.0001 compared to 1001.  However understanding 1.001 vs 0.001001 is too hard for them.

I think the real problem is people like you that think Bitcoin is some kind of get-rich-quick scheme rather than being a currency. It prevents outsiders from seeing the potential and focusing solely on "ZOMG PONZI SCHEME!" I'm glad the price is currently stabilized because that's what we need, not volatility.

You do not know me.  I am not a speculator.  Right now we have a nice core of technically-adept people to build software and nice core of liberty-minded people to evangelize the currency.  However the problem with these people is that we don't spend a lot of money on junk.  We need consumers.  We need people who actually make purchases with bitcoin.  We need people who will buy stuff because they want stuff, not for the novelty of using bitcoin or because they want to make the world a better place.

Want to buy a 2004 Ford Taurus with bitcoin?  I live in Maryland.  Send me a private message if interested.
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July 15, 2011, 02:10:08 AM
 #23

Be careful. You make assumptions about the value of Bitcoin that hinge on its long term viability, something that your speculation works against.

I think the real problem is people like you that think Bitcoin is some kind of get-rich-quick scheme rather than being a currency.

There's no evidence to show otherwise. Bitcoins are either (1) hoarded or (2) sold on the exchanges. Nothing else is happening, man. Accept this!


True that and really BTC has a huge ROI compared to any other investments right now.

Its been having HUGE ROI and continues to do so unless the price goes down to $0 tomorrow.

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myrkul
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July 15, 2011, 02:13:01 AM
 #24

Be careful. You make assumptions about the value of Bitcoin that hinge on its long term viability, something that your speculation works against.

I think the real problem is people like you that think Bitcoin is some kind of get-rich-quick scheme rather than being a currency.

There's no evidence to show otherwise. Bitcoins are either (1) hoarded or (2) sold on the exchanges. Nothing else is happening, man. Accept this!


True that and really BTC has a huge ROI compared to any other investments right now.

Its been having HUGE ROI and continues to do so unless the price goes down to $0 tomorrow.

Or into negative numbers.

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RandyFolds
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July 15, 2011, 02:24:10 AM
 #25

Well, they figured out bytes, kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes and terabytes all right...

Oh really?  Walk down street and ask 10 people how many kilobytes are in a gigabyte.  No more than one person will get the answer correct.


I wasn't referring to the actual numbers, and if I was, a wonky 8-bit system would not be my prime example. I am talking about orders of magnitude. Of those ten people, more than one could order them from smallest to largest...I hope. Maybe I am overestimated the common man, but if my parents get it and only use the computer to play bookworm, i think the average joe has some concept of it. Consider cell phones and data plans...these things have become relevant to the everyday user, not just the people who care about gadgets.

Keep in mind that that technology has been around on a consumer level for twenty years, max. I remember my first 240mb HD that would never ever run out of space. I am sure there are people on this forum who remember their 640kb HD with the same thoughts upon its installation. That's pretty good progress...from a non-existent term to an everyday term...

It will take time for the jargon to take hold, but that's better than bending to the whims of ignorance. For every major overhaul to the bitcoin system, their is going to be a backlash and loss of confidence to match or overshadow it. A step forward doesn't mean it isn't over a cliff...no one knows the future.

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luv2drnkbr
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July 15, 2011, 12:53:51 PM
 #26

Bitcoin has stagnated because the decimal point wasn't moved.  We need to move it 2-3 places.  Normal people might be willing to throw $10-20 into bitcoin.  For that they get.... 1 coin?  If they could get 100 or 1000 it would seem like a better deal.  The psychological barrier is far, far, more important than most people on these forums realize.  Believe it or not, most people in the world aren't mathematically adept libertarian engineers.  We need to go after the humanities people, the liberals, the people who don't understand fractions or decimals.  We need to move to a "points" model, like xbox points or credit card rewards points.

For most of a century people were paid in pennies.

A penny for your thoughts, pinch a penny, the $5 per day job at Ford considered high wages...

A penny for your thoughts still sounds better than 0.00071429 Bitcoins for your thoughts, or 71,429 Satoshis for your thoughts!

Tril
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July 15, 2011, 12:56:41 PM
 #27

You are kidding yourself if you think that normal people have the skills or desire to understand the concept of mBTC.  We need to actually move the decimal place.

What does "moving the decimal place" mean if not using millibitcoins (mBTC) or microbitcoins (uBTC)?  You're not seriously suggesting that 1 bitcoin become 100 new bitcoin, which would be entirely absurd?
grod
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July 15, 2011, 02:02:27 PM
 #28

Yes, too bad for us.  We (those of us who have bitcoins) could be millionaires if it weren't for people like you wanting to keep the bitcoin economy exclusive.


After careful deliberation I agree that the ONLY thing keeping bitcoin exclusive and all of us on this forum from becoming gajillionares is a 100 or 1000:1 bitcoin split.  And people like me in our ivory towers.</sarcasm>

Even in the US people have become sensitized to "kilo", "mega" and "giga" (and soon, "tera" and "peta") as prefixes which denote increasing size.  They may have to whip out a calculator to convert, but they all know giga > mega > kilo.  They are capable of grasping the concept of "milli" and "micro" and "nano" as prefixes denoting smaller sizes.

Outside the US (and last I checked the rest of the world is quite a bit bigger than countries still using Imperial units) people have no problems with the concept of "deci" (1/10th), "centi" (1/100th) and "milli" (1/1000ths) because they're exposed to the concept of decimeters, centimeters and millimeters (and *liters, etc) all their lives.  If someone wishes to express their penis length in millimeters they can do so instead of saying something like "my wang is but 0.12 meters long".

The US population could well be dumber on average, but isn't so cretinous as to have decimal points being the only thing stopping you from buying a helicopter with your bitcoins.
hello_good_sir
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July 15, 2011, 02:36:20 PM
 #29

What does "moving the decimal place" mean if not using millibitcoins (mBTC) or microbitcoins (uBTC)?  You're not seriously suggesting that 1 bitcoin become 100 new bitcoin, which would be entirely absurd?

Of course I am suggesting that 1 bitcoin become 100 (or 1000) bitcoin.  Mexico actually moved the decimal point on their currency.

Want to buy a 2004 Ford Taurus with bitcoin?  I live in Maryland.  Send me a private message if interested.
max in montreal
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July 15, 2011, 03:13:15 PM
 #30

Well, they figured out bytes, kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes and terabytes all right...

People will figure it out.

Americans never could figure out the metric system... Cheesy
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July 15, 2011, 03:16:32 PM
 #31

For most of a century people were paid in pennies.

A penny for your thoughts, pinch a penny, the $5 per day job at Ford considered high wages...

A penny for your thoughts still sounds better than 0.00071429 Bitcoins for your thoughts, or 71,429 Satoshis for your thoughts!

Considering the quality of some of the posts on this forum, I'm glad we can use better units, since a lot of the thoughts here are worth a Satoshi.

myrkul
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July 15, 2011, 05:27:26 PM
 #32

What does "moving the decimal place" mean if not using millibitcoins (mBTC) or microbitcoins (uBTC)?  You're not seriously suggesting that 1 bitcoin become 100 new bitcoin, which would be entirely absurd?

Of course I am suggesting that 1 bitcoin become 100 (or 1000) bitcoin.  Mexico actually moved the decimal point on their currency.

Mexico is a country, with fiat currency, that was inflated through the roof.

Additionally, you wouldn't actually be doing anything, except changing the way the data is displayed.

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Babylon
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July 15, 2011, 05:33:53 PM
 #33

Yes, too bad for us.  We (those of us who have bitcoins) could be millionaires if it weren't for people like you wanting to keep the bitcoin economy exclusive.

I think the real problem is people like you that think Bitcoin is some kind of get-rich-quick scheme rather than being a currency. It prevents outsiders from seeing the potential and focusing solely on "ZOMG PONZI SCHEME!" I'm glad the price is currently stabilized because that's what we need, not volatility.

Fractions? What fractions? We're not dealing with numbers like 1/2, 1/16, 1/5, 1/7, or whatever. Just decimals.

Since we're being pedantic, decimals are fractions. They were originally called "decimal fractions".

Stable prices are good for merchants, it means they don't need to keep readjusting their prices.

I think the stable price is going to be a lot higher than the price right now though.

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July 15, 2011, 05:45:30 PM
 #34

Yes, too bad for us.  We (those of us who have bitcoins) could be millionaires if it weren't for people like you wanting to keep the bitcoin economy exclusive.

I think the real problem is people like you that think Bitcoin is some kind of get-rich-quick scheme rather than being a currency. It prevents outsiders from seeing the potential and focusing solely on "ZOMG PONZI SCHEME!" I'm glad the price is currently stabilized because that's what we need, not volatility.

Fractions? What fractions? We're not dealing with numbers like 1/2, 1/16, 1/5, 1/7, or whatever. Just decimals.

Since we're being pedantic, decimals are fractions. They were originally called "decimal fractions".

Stable prices are good for merchants, it means they don't need to keep readjusting their prices.

I think the stable price is going to be a lot higher than the price right now though.

I think if Bitcoin becomes prevalent then the price will fluctuate about as much as gold currently does.
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July 17, 2011, 01:01:58 PM
 #35

I think the real problem is people like you that think Bitcoin is some kind of get-rich-quick scheme rather than being a currency.

There's no evidence to show otherwise. Bitcoins are either (1) hoarded or (2) sold on the exchanges. Nothing else is happening, man. Accept this!


Have you been to the Market section of the forum?  People are buying and selling goods and services left and right!  I personally was not one of the early adopters with 10s of thousands of bitcoins but I've already bought a computer, an iPad app, and a keepsake coin using bitcoins.  Additionally, I have tipped and donated to some people using bitcoins.  I consider myself to be a fairly frugal person so I'm sure there are others who are spending even more than I am. 

I am glad for the stable price as I think it will encourage more merchants to accept bitcoins.
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July 17, 2011, 01:10:39 PM
 #36

A penny for your thoughts still sounds better than 0.00071429 Bitcoins for your thoughts, or 71,429 Satoshis for your thoughts!

That argument goes both ways... "A milli for your thoughts" sounds better than "1.315293 pennies for your thoughts".

My Dad tries to use that argument against the metric system saying "It's a lot easier to say 3-foot waves, rather than 0.91 metre waves". And I say "Yes but if they were exactly 1 metre, it's easier to say 1-metre waves than 3-foot-3-inch-and-4-tenths-of-an-inch waves".

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July 19, 2011, 12:44:38 AM
 #37

hello_good_sir's arguments about appealing to non-technical people are quite valid. This has been said a ton before, of course, but the bitcoin community needs:

1) A dead-simple reference client with built-in means to back up and secure the wallet. These functions need to be presented in ways that ordinary people will understand. Some real effort needs to be spent on user-interface design.
2) The crypto details need to be obscured from people. Full addresses rarely need to be completely visible. "all those numbers and letters" just confuse and turn people off.
3) The confirmation status and number, block stuff, connections, etc, all need to be obscured in default bitcoin transacting interfaces. Again, this is just going to confuse people and make things seem way too complicated and error-prone.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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July 19, 2011, 02:56:14 PM
 #38

Absolutely NOT.  This is intended to be a serious medium of exchange, not some sort of "point" system designed to obfuscate value. 

As a counter example I present Berkshire-Hathaway.  That stock has never had a split, never paid a dividend, was never gussied up to look pretty for the "common Joe."  Result?  $115,000 per share, and returns well above market.

People absolutely understand fractions.  And if they don't, well.  Too bad.


buy the b-class shares, then at ~53€ at the moment.
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July 19, 2011, 10:48:34 PM
 #39

we just need to get bitcoin in the news again....someone go do something bad...but not too bad...just bad enough to get on tv again  hehe

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Alex Beckenham
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July 19, 2011, 11:47:26 PM
 #40

we just need to get bitcoin in the news again....someone go do something bad...but not too bad...just bad enough to get on tv again  hehe

Finance some terrorism anyone?

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