Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
|
 |
September 09, 2013, 06:21:45 PM |
|
If you sell a stolen car, you can describe the prosecution as being for, ultimately, "selling a car". But that kind of ignores the fact that the car was stolen. The key fact is that von NotHaus was counterfeiting US currency and this fact was key to his prosecution.
Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. It wouldn't have mattered if the currency looked alien, he was prosecuted for issuing a currency. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Be very wary of relying on JavaScript for security on crypto sites. The site can change the JavaScript at any time unless you take unusual precautions, and browsers are not generally known for their airtight security.
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
murraypaul
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:22:59 PM |
|
If you sell a stolen car, you can describe the prosecution as being for, ultimately, "selling a car". But that kind of ignores the fact that the car was stolen. The key fact is that von NotHaus was counterfeiting US currency and this fact was key to his prosecution.
Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both. It wouldn't have mattered if the currency looked alien, he was prosecuted for issuing a currency. For issuing coins. That section does not prohibit issuing paper currency. |
BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
SRC: scefi1XMhq91n3oF5FrE3HqddVvvCZP9KB
|
|
|
Anon136
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:26:51 PM |
|
Upon reading the title of this thread, I couldn't help but wonder why rocks hate moving water.
i was going to say "why rocks hate vegetables" but this will suffice  |
Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited? |
|
|
Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:27:04 PM |
|
For issuing coins. That section does not prohibit issuing paper currency.
Very strange; so, if the man decided not to issue the coins, but instead set it up so the bills could be swapped for PMs, it would then have been legal? Why are coins targeted specifically? |
|
|
|
|
murraypaul
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:31:13 PM |
|
For issuing coins. That section does not prohibit issuing paper currency.
Very strange; so, if the man decided not to issue the coins, but instead set it up so the bills could be swapped for PMs, it would then have been legal? Why are coins targeted specifically? My guess is that it dates back to when the worth of the coin was the metal it was made out of, rather than it simply being an alternative form of IOU. |
BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
SRC: scefi1XMhq91n3oF5FrE3HqddVvvCZP9KB
|
|
|
kokjo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:32:10 PM |
|
Why are coins targeted specifically?
if they have the same size a fiat coins, you really have to look at them, to know the difference. where the giant face of an old and long gone president on a piece of paper is way more recognizable. its easier to trick people to accept 'wrong' coins. just my guess. |
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
|
|
|
|
crumbs
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:33:44 PM |
|
For issuing coins. That section does not prohibit issuing paper currency.
Very strange; so, if the man decided not to issue the coins, but instead set it up so the bills could be swapped for PMs, it would then have been legal? Why are coins targeted specifically? The point is the man did decide to issue coins, running afoul of 18 USC § 486. If you are interested in deeper understanding, such as the reasoning behind this law, i'm sure adult education classes are available. |
|
|
|
|
kokjo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:36:02 PM |
|
i'm sure adult education classes are available.
owned. |
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
|
|
|
|
murraypaul
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:38:30 PM |
|
More topically, didn't someone produce actual physical Bitcoins? Were they made of metal?  |
BTC: 16TgAGdiTSsTWSsBDphebNJCFr1NT78xFW
SRC: scefi1XMhq91n3oF5FrE3HqddVvvCZP9KB
|
|
|
Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:41:43 PM |
|
The point is the man did decide to issue coins, running afoul of 18 USC § 486.
If you are interested in deeper understanding, such as the reasoning behind this law, i'm sure adult education classes are available.
I'm not interested in the topic enough to drop the cash, but thanks for the advice. Anyhow, doing a little more research on the topic, it seems issuing a private currency is not completely illegal, but due to the USD being subsidized, and the restrictions placed upon anyone but the U.S. Feds issuing cash, it's just not feasible for a private currency to reach national usage; it's the same reason why private entities don't rise to take the work the government provides. More topically, didn't someone produce actual physical Bitcoins? Were they made of metal? Now this has me curious; if it applies to the LD, why not physical BTC? |
|
|
|
|
crumbs
|
|
September 09, 2013, 06:53:18 PM |
|
...
Now this has me curious; if it applies to the LD, why not physical BTC?
Because Chuck E Cheese's also minted their own coins, and the rat was not sentenced to any jail time. Friends in high places, i suppose.  Gob'ment>>  |
|
|
|
|
JoelKatz
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
|
|
September 09, 2013, 07:06:02 PM |
|
Now this has me curious; if it applies to the LD, why not physical BTC?
The LD was counterfeit. If someone tried to pass off physical BTC as "current money", or encouraged others to do so, they'd run afoul of the law too. |
I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
|
|
|
Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
|
|
September 09, 2013, 07:15:07 PM |
|
The LD was counterfeit. If someone tried to pass off physical BTC as "current money", or encouraged others to do so, they'd run afoul of the law too.
I see now; so it's not a matter of issuing coins, it's a matter of issuing any money with resemblance to other money. So this is why legal advisers exist  |
|
|
|
JoelKatz
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
|
|
September 09, 2013, 10:15:47 PM |
|
I see now; so it's not a matter of issuing coins, it's a matter of issuing any money with resemblance to other money. So this is why legal advisers exist As a practical matter, von NotHaus was prosecuted because he encouraged counterfeiting -- it was part of his business model. As a legal matter, I wouldn't suggest issuing metal coins that are intended to circulate as money for general use. For more details, see http://www.dictocracy.com/libertydollar/commentary/pdfs/1164570384.pdf |
I am an employee of Ripple. Follow me on Twitter @JoelKatz
1Joe1Katzci1rFcsr9HH7SLuHVnDy2aihZ BM-NBM3FRExVJSJJamV9ccgyWvQfratUHgN
|
|
|
|
hayek
|
|
September 12, 2013, 07:22:36 PM |
|
fiat money is a system of slavery where by those who print the money get to diminish your wealth for their own ends and there is nothing you can do about it
|
|
|
|
|
|
crumbs
|
|
September 12, 2013, 07:28:49 PM |
|
fiat money is a system of slavery where by those who print the money get to diminish your wealth for their own ends and there is nothing you can do about it
Those who print the money are your betters. Be a good randian and give them respect, adoration & slavish obedience that is their due., pl0x. |
|
|
|
|
GoldSilverBitcoin
Member
Offline
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
Gold Silver Bitcoin: It's your choice
|
|
September 13, 2013, 08:44:21 AM |
|
It's okay. At this point, if you're still reading this thread, you've likely come to grand new conclusions which have tested your prior understanding of reality, and indeed who you are yourself. Things make sense for the first time: the struggle, the suffering or perhaps the days-in and days-out of mind-numbing boredom, none of them are anything more than illusions, holograms - a collective of minds.
Don't withdraw from your friends. Accept everyone else around you who doesn't know this truth. Try to show them the way. You will find, everyone does know, they just deal with it in certain ways.
On a scale from Alex Jones to Kanye West, there is an undercurrent you've just been taken by.
|
|
|
|
|
