When will see prices independent of USD?

[Severos]

Pre note: all the following at my personal thoughts, I'm no expert in what so ever, so don't assume that I'm giving directions to people, instead consider it as me asking for directions.

The title is a bit unclear, and maybe misleading, I'm not the best one to come with titles for sure.

So, the whole thing is about this: while we're all here crypto enthusiasts, and yarning for the future of crypto, I still see some stuff that I believe are holding us back to the age of USD. We worry about the price conversion, and most of the services/buy/sell while they accept the payment of crypto, they still use USD as the backing value. This situation is something like trading your currency (CAD) for JPY (Japanese Yen) to buy something valued based on USD, lots of losses on the way in fees and such, also the price is volatile.
If we keep things like that, I doubt crypto will ever be the economy of future, all it will be is just another currency in the market. I understand that it takes time to reach that phase, but shouldn't we start taking the steps already? bitcoin is nearly 10 years old now, if we can't start to price things based on it accordingly, then when will we start??
Far as I think, in order to make a shift like that, we need lots of people who have variety of products enough to let them create something like a mini community so they won't be affected by the USD. But, we don't really need to make it fully independent community, at least not in one single go, maybe we should start isolating few services that are offered for a constant BTC rate, and start shifting the economy step by step?

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[gamerfan]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

[13abyknight]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.

In that case, would you pay 1 BTC for a couple of pizzas since you think its just 1 BTC worth? OP is setting focus on a completely different page while you are making no sense with your words.

But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

The entire crypto market is based on converting token prices to USD, buying at a depreciation and waiting for it to rise. Blockchain has nothing to do with trading except for the fact that it is the platform that is acting as a ledger for all the transactions. Hence, for obvious reasons, traders would be least bothered about blockchain technology and only focus on USD conversion values of their coin investments.

[tora]

As most bitcoin,and altcoin,holdings originate from USD deposits holders are interested in how their holdings compare to their original cost ie how much it is now worth in USD.

[Koadharber]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

I am with you regarding with this since most people now are not really thinking up too much on the technology behind on bitcoin but rather they do always think up on how to make dollars out of it which means interest for having an independent value isnt really there because people do always love to have fiat money and we do know this has been the motive of each everyone of us. Talking back if bitcoin would tend to have 1 btc=1btc value then where does its value came from?

[Severos]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

I am with you regarding with this since most people now are not really thinking up too much on the technology behind on bitcoin but rather they do always think up on how to make dollars out of it which means interest for having an independent value isnt really there because people do always love to have fiat money and we do know this has been the motive of each everyone of us. Talking back if bitcoin would tend to have 1 btc=1btc value then where does its value came from?

Ok then, if we have 1USD = 1USD, then where does its value come from? the paper it self isn't worth it, normal people would say its because USD is universal and could be accepted anywhere by anyone at anytime, but tracing the roots (in a simple form since I don't remember details at the moment), 1USD gets its value because its a number that represents a fraction of gold the government has stored, instead of everyone carrying gold and trading it around, everyone puts the gold with a trusted 3rd party (government) that issues bank notes that are easier to use around. But lets take a deeper look, why gold? because its what people decided (by practice, not laws) would be a common valuable item that anyone would accept as a payment method at anytime.
So in theory, if people started to shift toward BTC (or other crypto) as a generally accepted payment that anyone would accept at anytime, it should be possible to build economy where things have base value of BTC, and a currency would derive its value in compare to BTC, governments would store BTC and issue bank notes that gets its value from it (talking in theory here governments, don't do it). So instead of waking up in the morning and saying BTC has reached 7k USD, you'd say USD has reached 1k satoshies.

[South Park]

But, we don't really need to make it fully independent community, at least not in one single go, maybe we should start isolating few services that are offered for a constant BTC rate, and start shifting the economy step by step?

No, that is called price controls and you just need to look at the past to know that does not work, bitcoin is priced in dollars because everything is priced in some other currency, you can buy dollars with euros and you can buy euros with dollars, everything can be bought and exchanged for something else and bitcoin is not an exception to this rule so unless the dollar disappears we are always going to have a rate of conversion between USD and BTC.

[ralle14]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

Talking back if bitcoin would tend to have 1 btc=1btc value then where does its value came from?

If we ignore the conversion rates of fiat it'll depends on the demand what people want to trade bitcoin with and the limited supply we have for bitcoin. Halving event helps a lot because it reduces the amount of bitcoins being produced every 4 years making bitcoin more valuable.

Donations here in the forum is still the same 10btc and 50 btc no one wants to spend that kind of amount now. The same thing would also happen for services that ignores fiat prices.

[richardsNY]

Donations here in the forum is still the same 10btc and 50 btc no one wants to spend that kind of amount now. The same thing would also happen for services that ignores fiat prices.

That's just a principle gesture towards the people having donated that actual number of coins. In current times based on the actual demand for Bitcoin, it should be adjusted to 0.0X BTC at most -- the more usability potential Bitcoin has, the more valuable it comes. In current times we can definitely say that there is far more usability, and that translates into items or services priced at a certain amount of coins initially, to decrease in BTC quantity value due to its increased usability based value. Explaining why something is worth exactly 0.01 or 0.1 BTC is something we in current time frame won't be able figure out. One way or another, fiat might and will likely continue to play an important role.

[lowspace1]

Ok then, if we have 1USD = 1USD, then where does its value come from? the paper it self isn't worth it, normal people would say its because USD is universal and could be accepted anywhere by anyone at anytime, but tracing the roots (in a simple form since I don't remember details at the moment), 1USD gets its value because its a number that represents a fraction of gold the government has stored, instead of everyone carrying gold and trading it around, everyone puts the gold with a trusted 3rd party (government) that issues bank notes that are easier to use around.

USD is not backed by gold or silver since 1970s. So, it is technically backed by USA political and military power, which started to threaten by China's PetroYen project. What I am trying to say is that, techinaclly, BTC and USD not backed by anything.

[godzillarekt007]

It is always going to remain paired with USD and you want to know why? The US dollar is not dying anytime soon and since it will have power and purchasing power, some people will always want to diversify and liquidate some of their holdings into USD.

[Vladv26]

What you are saying is true, most of the people use bitcoin now as an investment and a way to make profit out of it and that is because there are enough shops to go and buy everything you want with bitcoin. Here comes the other problem, why there arent enough shops? Because people dont show their wish to go and buy with bitcoin. Another reason would be the fees of bitcoin, wich are pretty high. If you would want to buy a juice wich costs 1$ with bitcoin then you would pay triple the price, including the fees

[yosemit]

Crypto currencies are too volatile now so we need to orient to something stable and easy to associate for everybody. And this can change only when the cryptocurrency exchanges become stable, that is also means less investing opportunities

[Polipog]

For me, these are opposite discussions between the real paper money like U.S dollar and the opposite side of all crypto currencies. Comparing real money, it s actually a currency that lives legally endorse by government, and it will used and acceptable all the time, unlike all crypto currencies, they are just used as a digital kind of currency and not a real money, but the good of all crypto currencies are more highly value compare to real money that's why we are all interested to use and access crypto because of higher value when converted to real money. We cannot sure also on how long to live the full operations of all crypto currencies, no one can predict if crypto will stopped and shutdown immediately. Although we are now in a new technology, hoping that all crypto will live forever and more development will be upgrading.

[Nunoluck]

We will see that after USD is no longer used by people. I am sure it will be happen. We will move to the new financial system with new medium of exchange, all people will be rich in the future, there is no poor person in the future. Everybody will be rich. May be the price of bitcoin will be compared with gold.

[DrakeDG]

We will see that after USD is no longer used by people. I am sure it will be happen. We will move to the new financial system with new medium of exchange, all people will be rich in the future, there is no poor person in the future. Everybody will be rich. May be the price of bitcoin will be compared with gold.

Don't be too positive about it. There's still governments who have been hindering that changes. Plus the fact that people starts to think that BTC is just another regular currency in the making. Changing the financial system would take so much time and effort to do so.

[BTCforJoe]

We will see that after USD is no longer used by people. I am sure it will be happen. We will move to the new financial system with new medium of exchange, all people will be rich in the future, there is no poor person in the future. Everybody will be rich. May be the price of bitcoin will be compared with gold.

I hope you realize the fallacy in your statement: In order for rich people to be rich, there need to be poor people. Everybody cannot be rich, or that will lead to massive inflation. USD will always be applicable to currency. Most of it is digital nowadays; it's just a matter of time before even more becomes digital. IMHO, Bitcoin will never replace the US dollar, nor will it ever come close; at least not until the scaling issues are addressed.

Unfortunately, BTC prices rely on the US dollar value. USD seems to be the standard currency of measurement for all currencies, not just crypto. So, OP, when you state that we need to create our own economy for crypto, products and services need to have a reference point as to what they're worth. You can't just say "this painting is worth 0.5BTC" and expect people to blindly give you 0.5BTC without checking the appropriate value. I personally do not ever see Bitcoin becoming independent of USD, or any other currency, for that matter, regardless of how many people use it.

[khaled0111]

Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies are still in the first stages, and no one can estimate their real value.
We need a stable currency like USD to be able to buy and sell cryptocurrencies (according to their USD value).
This situation will not last forever and Bitcoin is likely the coin that will replace USD and will be backing all other coins.

[jakelyson]

This will happen gradually. See how people shifted from paper money to credit card. It took a lot of years before people fully use credit cards on almost all transactions.

The same can happen to cryptocurrency. There is not much merchandisers that accepts bitcoin or crypto. But if there will be a major adoption of merchandisers to accept crypto, then people can start shifting from credit card or fiat to crypto transactions. Then we can start disassociating fiat to crypto exchange.

[alyssa85]

When you can get your salary in bitcoin, pay your mortgage/rent in bitcoin, and do all your purchases in bitcoin, and pay your tax in bitcoin - that is the point where people won't reference USD.

At the moment bitcoin is going backwards in that many merchants are disabling the ability to pay in bitcoin. That in turn forces people to convert to USD to buy stuff. Which makes the price in USD even more important...

[BTCforJoe]

This will happen gradually. See how people shifted from paper money to credit card. It took a lot of years before people fully use credit cards on almost all transactions.

The same can happen to cryptocurrency. There is not much merchandisers that accepts bitcoin or crypto. But if there will be a major adoption of merchandisers to accept crypto, then people can start shifting from credit card or fiat to crypto transactions. Then we can start disassociating fiat to crypto exchange.

So you're in favor of a fixed-value economy surrounding Bitcoin? That's the only way that bitcoin can succeed as an independently free-standing currency. One thing you're failing to realize with your credit card example is that credit cards are just another method to use currency; it doesn't replace the dollar.

[South Park]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

If price is not really that important will you mind selling your BTC for a dollar? If not then you care about the price, the price you see in exchanges is the fair market value of bitcoin, the current price is an agreement between the sellers and the buyers of where is that price, and it is important not only for bitcoin but for everything, take water as an example, water is cheap but if there was a shortage its price will go through the roof, bitcoin despite all its technological advances is the same no matter how you look at it.

[stellgod]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

Talking back if bitcoin would tend to have 1 btc=1btc value then where does its value came from?

If we ignore the conversion rates of fiat it'll depends on the demand what people want to trade bitcoin with and the limited supply we have for bitcoin. Halving event helps a lot because it reduces the amount of bitcoins being produced every 4 years making bitcoin more valuable.

Donations here in the forum is still the same 10btc and 50 btc no one wants to spend that kind of amount now. The same thing would also happen for services that ignores fiat prices.

That will never be possible. USD and other currencies are required for proper calculation and other reasons. Despite I don’t know much of the reasons, one thing I’m very sure of is that USD is very, very important. And by the way, Bitcoin is not a real currency, it is just meant for investment purposes only and nothing else.

[supermine]

It will happen when we use crypto currency as currency not as an investment.

But there is no relation between the bitcoin price and the USD,the price of bitcoin really based on the satoshi value,so the people need to change their mind to see bitcoin in terms of satoshi value.
And for that it needs much time because we are still at the early stages of crypto currency so we need more time to adapt to the crypto currency system fully.Until that people will see bitcoin only in terms of USDs or in their local currencies.

[boboking]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

Talking back if bitcoin would tend to have 1 btc=1btc value then where does its value came from?

If we ignore the conversion rates of fiat it'll depends on the demand what people want to trade bitcoin with and the limited supply we have for bitcoin. Halving event helps a lot because it reduces the amount of bitcoins being produced every 4 years making bitcoin more valuable.

Donations here in the forum is still the same 10btc and 50 btc no one wants to spend that kind of amount now. The same thing would also happen for services that ignores fiat prices.

That will never be possible. USD and other currencies are required for proper calculation and other reasons. Despite I don’t know much of the reasons, one thing I’m very sure of is that USD is very, very important. And by the way, Bitcoin is not a real currency, it is just meant for investment purposes only and nothing else.

I agree this is not going to happened. People already trust usd and it is the most acceptable currency in the whole world. Lets say a country adopted bitcoin as their official currency just like any  another currency it will still be compared to other currencies of another country. Now if the whole world adopted bitcoin (which is quite impossible to happened) it will still needed to be backed up by something precious like gold to know its worth.

[zhelis74]

I really like your mindset. For me 1 BTC is just 1 BTC. No need to consider its $ price.
But keep in mind many people are here just for speculative purposes and don't care about blockchain technology, Bitcoin and so on. They think to cryptocoins just as a good way to make some dollars buying it and then sell it at a higher price. That's why people look so concerned about USD price.

Talking back if bitcoin would tend to have 1 btc=1btc value then where does its value came from?

If we ignore the conversion rates of fiat it'll depends on the demand what people want to trade bitcoin with and the limited supply we have for bitcoin. Halving event helps a lot because it reduces the amount of bitcoins being produced every 4 years making bitcoin more valuable.

Donations here in the forum is still the same 10btc and 50 btc no one wants to spend that kind of amount now. The same thing would also happen for services that ignores fiat prices.

That will never be possible. USD and other currencies are required for proper calculation and other reasons. Despite I don’t know much of the reasons, one thing I’m very sure of is that USD is very, very important. And by the way, Bitcoin is not a real currency, it is just meant for investment purposes only and nothing else.

It is hard to happen by now, but its not impossible that Bitcoin value will be independent from USD. When the world are fully interconnected until its smallest corner then everything will be run digitally in everyday living of the people, all monetary transaction is course through in a single chip that every individual holds and no more real money, people will buy and transact using its unique identified chips using an apps that easy and quick for use.

[shulio]

When the Bitcoin acceptance will be more than 20% around the world, then we may quit saying BTC price is xxx usd. Instead the USD price will be defined in BTC and we use BTC on all transactions and payments.

[krishnapramod]

Here's is an old article on Why Bitcoin Value vs. The Dollar Doesn’t Matter.

https://www.ccn.com/why-bitcoin-value-doesnt-matter

So the Bitcoin value versus the dollar right now is irrelevant, since Bitcoin is not going to replace the “World’s reserve currency” regardless. Ask Bitcoin industry leaders like Andreas Antonopoulos and Cameron Winklevoss, and they’ll tell you the price doesn’t matter. As Andreas once said on a Joe Rogan Podcast, the Internet’s value is not measured in its ability to replace a number of fax machines. So why measure Bitcoin in dollars? They are totally different ecosystems. Like comparing apples to oranges, literally.

Two different ecosystems, it's not about replacing, but not being absolutely dependent. Bitcoin is heavily dependent on the fiat system, the crypto gurus with several thousands of dollars prediction, the cash flow is there, but it's mostly about expectations to withdraw thousands in fiat at a point in future. There is no circular flow of income, for buying Bitcoin, fiat is needed, but again converting it to fiat, there would be no Bitcoin economy, it would be like using unlimited supply of fiat to buy Bitcoin to cash it out for more unlimited supply of fiat.

I guess if the Bitcoin economy grows to the point where it not only acts as a stable store of value, but also a reliable medium of exchange where almost everything can be bought using Bitcoin, it would have an independent value, where the price/supply/demand is decided more based on investments, goods and services rather than fiat conversions.

[xieqieshangu9]

The entire digital currency is traded on the basis of the dollar!

There is no other currency to replace the dollar! Because the dollar is a more stable legal tender!

[gabmen]

When the Bitcoin acceptance will be more than 20% around the world, then we may quit saying BTC price is xxx usd. Instead the USD price will be defined in BTC and we use BTC on all transactions and payments.

That may be a bit too much to ask for today but you're right, btc needs to have acceptance of at least a fifth or even a quarter to be in a way independent from the dollar or any fiat currency. It may take a while before we arrive at that time since not all people who know btc are in support of it

[cryptogirlboss]

I hope never, we still need a stable currency, can you imagine entering a shop and see prices like:

Water - 0.0000011
Milk - 0.0000012
Beer - 0.000002

It would be highly impractical and not even considering cryptos volatility!

[Shikaina]

I dont derstand, if you want bitcoin to be independed of USD so in what currency do you want it to depend or be based? Even gold is based of fiat if not you will be holding your bitcoin as an asset but has no definite value because there will be no currency it is based on. Eve our local currency has its equivalent in fiat. May it be USD or Euro.

[Aleister Crowley]

When the Bitcoin acceptance will be more than 20% around the world, then we may quit saying BTC price is xxx usd. Instead the USD price will be defined in BTC and we use BTC on all transactions and payments.

will become indispensable if the BTC has been consumed much by the world, the price of the bitcoin price is turned into a benchmark for fiat money, and along with it btc will be the best solution used as the world currency for the payment system