bustabit – The original crash game

[JollyGood]

Is bustabit first crash game?

Yes, It was called moneypot when it was first announced and launched here back in 2014. Then it was rebranded to bustabit and in latter moment it was, as far as I understood, recoded and modified to bustabit 2.0.

and who invented crash game?

As far as I know user espringe invented it; btw it's a pity he is not anymore around here on bitcoitalk.

Here is original announcement thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709185.0

Hope I remember things correctly , maybe Devans or Rhavar might correct me.

Nice bit of information there. It was a long time ago it all started but thank you for the links.

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[Tamilson]

I wonder how do users find the website, considering there's almost no activity in this thread.

Watching on the date of replies in which the last activity of this thread is january 30 until there's an activity in this thread now.

And if the thread don't have any recent activity it does not mean that few people knew this lol. Bustabit had aged here. ;b

I wonder how do users find the website, considering there's almost no activity in this thread.

I think people are searching for websites in bitcointalk and other sites and then they find this thread. Some may search a website base on the country their in for example I search a casino website only.

Well I guess no members here didn't know bustabit and other popular gambling sites. Bitcointalk is a good place to advertise anyway.

[devans]

I would like to know what the single largest winner on a single bet placed was.

Does anybody have that information?

The largest win in a single bet was 42 BTC from a 40 BTC bet: https://www.bustabit.com/bet/104995305

[Vilrex]

Hello guys I have some questions,

can someone tell me if I invest on the bankroll with no leverage (only investing with onsite) what Kelly am I exposed to and how can I calculate it? also what is the Kelly if I where to use the offsite system as leverage?

and also if the bankroll increases 10% does that mean that my investment also grows 10%?

thank you guys

[JollyGood]

I would like to know what the single largest winner on a single bet placed was.

Does anybody have that information?

The largest win in a single bet was 42 BTC from a 40 BTC bet: https://www.bustabit.com/bet/104995305

Thank you

[RHavar]

Hello guys I have some questions,

can someone tell me if I invest on the bankroll with no leverage (only investing with onsite) what Kelly am I exposed to and how can I calculate it? also what is the Kelly if I where to use the offsite system as leverage?

So the house edge is 1%, investors always pay Dan 0.25% commissions (regardless of outcome) which means from investors point of view the edge is 0.75%.

Now according to:
https://www.bustabit.com/faq/how-does-the-bankroll-work

The max a single player can win in a round is 0.75% -- so that means if there was a single player in the game and he was aiming for the max-profit ... investors would be at a 1x kelly. However it's possible for multiple players to be playing at the same time, so there's a secondary cap at: Each round can only win 1.125 % of the bankroll which means if that happened (e.g. multiple whales at once) investors would be at a 1.5x kelly ( which is not ideal, but still +expected bankroll growth).

I couldn't find in the FAQ the current offsite limit, but what ever it is should be easy to calculate the kelly if you use it as a means to leverage (which I'd advise against)
 

and also if the bankroll increases 10% does that mean that my investment also grows 10%?

Yeah, when you "invest" you get own % (stake) of the bankroll. So when the bankroll grows or decreases, your stake stays the same. So if the bankroll doubled  your investment would double. If the bankroll halved, your investment would halve.   (Note: stakes are readjusted when people invest or divest, so you only make money when the bankroll gains money from gamblers)

[Vilrex]

Yeah, when you "invest" you get own % (stake) of the bankroll. So when the bankroll grows or decreases, your stake stays the same. So if the bankroll doubled  your investment would double. If the bankroll halved, your investment would halve.   (Note: stakes are readjusted when people invest or divest, so you only make money when the bankroll gains money from gamblers)

but when the bankroll grows or decreases my stake in the bankroll also changes, so you are telling me that if I had invested when the bankroll was at 100 btc profit and now it is 2.2k btc profit I would have 22x my investment?

[RHavar]

but when the bankroll grows or decreases my stake in the bankroll also changes, so you are telling me that if I had invested when the bankroll was at 100 btc profit and now it is 2.2k btc profit I would have 22x my investment?

No. You're confusing a few concepts. If you were invested in the bankroll when it was 100 BTC, and then it grew to 2.2k BTC purely by profits -- then you would've made 22x. But that's not really what's happened. It's best to look at it individually:


* A player loses X btc:
The bankroll will increase by (0.9975*X), but all investors will have the same % ownership (stake) as they did. (e.g. They own the same amount of a bankroll that just increased). Note: how the bankroll increased by slightly less than the player lost (that's cause Daniel is pocketing some money as commissions)


* A player wins X btc with a bet of Y:
The bankroll will decrease by (X + 0.0025*Y), but all investors will have the same % ownership (stake) as they did. (e.g. They own the same amount of a bankroll that just shrunk)


* An investors divests X btc:
The investor is given X btc. The bankroll decreases by X btc. Each investor's stake is adjusted such that  (stake*bankroll) is exactly equivalent to before the divestment (e.g. So they now own more of a smaller bankroll) with the exception of the investor who divested, whose (stake*bankroll) will be X less than before.

* An investor invests X btc:
The investor loses X btc from their balance. The bankroll goes up by 0.98*X btc. The person who invested stake is adjusted such that (stake*bankroll) is 0.98*X higher than it was before. All other investors have their stake adjusted such that (stake*bankroll) is the same before. After this process is completed, the bankroll is increased another 0.02*X. (this process is known as the "dilution fee" and is basically new investors paying the old investors (and themselves) compensation for lowering their stake

[prtty2gal2]

Lol when the investment increases does people really think its purely because people lose money on the site and bustabit and all of the investors money grow thanks to the profits made ?

I mean isn't it obvious that investment increases by faster with more investors than the profits, profits are still something that helps you grow your money of course but its not as fast as investors who see this as an opportunity. Depositing is quite easy as well so it takes no time and a good idea to be supporting a system that is designed to make you money.

It is great that Rhavar is always here helping answering questions of people but haven't you handed this off to devans ? I always wandered about the relations you three have, who owns bustabit and whats the relation between you and devans and you and bustabit and devans and bustabit, it is all a bit like a love triangle at this moment .

[Vilrex]

but when the bankroll grows or decreases my stake in the bankroll also changes, so you are telling me that if I had invested when the bankroll was at 100 btc profit and now it is 2.2k btc profit I would have 22x my investment?

No. You're confusing a few concepts. If you were invested in the bankroll when it was 100 BTC, and then it grew to 2.2k BTC purely by profits -- then you would've made 22x. But that's not really what's happened. It's best to look at it individually:


* A player loses X btc:
The bankroll will increase by (0.9975*X), but all investors will have the same % ownership (stake) as they did. (e.g. They own the same amount of a bankroll that just increased). Note: how the bankroll increased by slightly less than the player lost (that's cause Daniel is pocketing some money as commissions)


* A player wins X btc with a bet of Y:
The bankroll will decrease by (X + 0.0025*Y), but all investors will have the same % ownership (stake) as they did. (e.g. They own the same amount of a bankroll that just shrunk)


* An investors divests X btc:
The investor is given X btc. The bankroll decreases by X btc. Each investor's stake is adjusted such that  (stake*bankroll) is exactly equivalent to before the divestment (e.g. So they now own more of a smaller bankroll) with the exception of the investor who divested, whose (stake*bankroll) will be X less than before.

* An investor invests X btc:
The investor loses X btc from their balance. The bankroll goes up by 0.98*X btc. The person who invested stake is adjusted such that (stake*bankroll) is 0.98*X higher than it was before. All other investors have their stake adjusted such that (stake*bankroll) is the same before. After this process is completed, the bankroll is increased another 0.02*X. (this process is known as the "dilution fee" and is basically new investors paying the old investors (and themselves) compensation for lowering their stake

oh okay now I understand, but what what I really was referring to is the sites PROFITS, if the sites profit goes from 100 BTC to 110 BTC or from 2k BTC to 2.2K BTC does that mean my investment in the bankroll also grows 10% if all of the if there if the investment and divesting remains the same?

[RHavar]

I mean isn't it obvious that investment increases by faster with more investors than the profits, profits are still something that helps you grow your money of course but its not as fast as investors who see this as an opportunity. Depositing is quite easy as well so it takes no time and a good idea to be supporting a system that is designed to make you money.

I'm not sure it is. There's a 2% dilution which I think represents a pretty significant discouragement for new investors. Meanwhile site profits have been rather amazing (eyeballing it: https://dicesites.com/bustabit  and daily average volume seems to be 600 BTC? or so). So I bet the vast majority of recent bankroll growth is from profits (although at the start it would've been all due to new investors)

It is great that Rhavar is always here helping answering questions of people but haven't you handed this off to devans ? I always wandered about the relations you three have, who owns bustabit and whats the relation between you and devans and you and bustabit and devans and bustabit, it is all a bit like a love triangle at this moment .

I'm just answering here on the forum as I have nothing better to do (I've got a modest investment myself in the bankroll (under the exact same system/terms as any other investor) so I like to keep an eye on what's happening). [And full disclosure: I also have mod-privs on the chat, so I can mute people. But I rarely am on the chat these days]

oh okay now I understand, but what what I really was referring to is the sites PROFITS, if the sites profit goes from 100 BTC to 110 BTC or from 2k BTC to 2.2K BTC does that mean my investment in the bankroll also grows 10% if all of the if there if the investment and divesting remains the same?

Close again, but not quite. When you invest, your stake is based on how much the bankroll is (regardless of how much of that is profit). But then *after* you invested, all you care is about profits. So imagine the bankroll was 100 BTC, you put in another 100. Then you'd own ~50% of the bankroll.  Now you'd get ~50% of the site profits/loses

[Vilrex]

Close again, but not quite. When you invest, your stake is based on how much the bankroll is (regardless of how much of that is profit). But then *after* you invested, all you care is about profits. So imagine the bankroll was 100 BTC, you put in another 100. Then you'd own ~50% of the bankroll.  Now you'd get ~50% of the site profits/loses

it is true what you are saying, but my question is really simple, it doesn't matter if I have a 50% stake or a 0.002% stake, if the sites PROFITS goes from 2k to 2.2k (example) this means my investment also grew 10%,

and I have a more personal question for you RHVAR, do you use the offsite system at all? because if you only use the onsite system you are exposed to a 1.5Kelly, but that dosnt mean you will eventually loose your entire bankroll, this only happens if you use the offsite system exposing yourself to more than 1.5Kelly.

thanks for all your responses RHVAR im trying to wrap my head around this

[RHavar]

it is true what you are saying, but my question is really simple, it doesn't matter if I have a 50% stake or a 0.002% stake, if the sites PROFITS goes from 2k to 2.2k (example) this means my investment also grew 10%

No, it makes all the difference. If the site profit goes from 2k to 2.2k ... it means the site made 200 BTC in profit. So if you have a 50% stake, your investment would've increased by 100 BTC (50% of 200 BTC). If you had a 0.002% stake then your investment would go up by 0.004 BTC. How much in % increases that was, will depend on how big the bankroll is...

and I have a more personal question for you RHVAR, do you use the offsite system at all? because if you only use the onsite system you are exposed to a 1.5Kelly, but that dosnt mean you will eventually loose your entire bankroll, this only happens if you use the offsite system exposing yourself to more than 1.5Kelly.

Yeah, I'm currently using the offsite system. But mainly because I have invested in both bustabit and bustadice. So by using the offsite system, I can limit my total counter-party risk and I can easily rebalance by moving money between the two. I also use it extremely conservatively (right now I have 3:1 onsite:offsite ratio on bustabit). For most investors, I advise strongly advise against using it due to its potential to backfire if you don't really understand what you're getting into. While pure onsite is more "set and forget" which is probably more suitable.

[Supercrypt]

Lol what did you do, sell the things you made yourself than kept on being the investor even without a real affiliation? .

That is so weird for an exit, like you could have owned all of the game yourself and run it if you want but you turned the responsibility of running the casino over to someone else (I assume in exchange for some bitcoins) and than reinvested in it to have less responsibilities and more profits but than you turn out here to answer questions anyway. Don't get me wrong it is awesome that you would do that but you gotta admit that is a pretty rare thing to see .

Normally when someone turns over their company to someone else they leave and work on something different, you kept your position and just increased your investor level also I doubt you would use your mod rights unless something obvious like ad spams or whatever, you do not look like a guy who likes silencing others.

[JollyGood]

Lol what did you do, sell the things you made yourself than kept on being the investor even without a real affiliation? .

That is so weird for an exit, like you could have owned all of the game yourself and run it if you want but you turned the responsibility of running the casino over to someone else (I assume in exchange for some bitcoins) and than reinvested in it to have less responsibilities and more profits but than you turn out here to answer questions anyway. Don't get me wrong it is awesome that you would do that but you gotta admit that is a pretty rare thing to see .

Normally when someone turns over their company to someone else they leave and work on something different, you kept your position and just increased your investor level also I doubt you would use your mod rights unless something obvious like ad spams or whatever, you do not look like a guy who likes silencing others.

Has it been publicly stated how much it was sold to devans for? Or is that private information?

[devans]

Lol what did you do, sell the things you made yourself than kept on being the investor even without a real affiliation? .

That is so weird for an exit, like you could have owned all of the game yourself and run it if you want but you turned the responsibility of running the casino over to someone else (I assume in exchange for some bitcoins) and than reinvested in it to have less responsibilities and more profits but than you turn out here to answer questions anyway. Don't get me wrong it is awesome that you would do that but you gotta admit that is a pretty rare thing to see .

Normally when someone turns over their company to someone else they leave and work on something different, you kept your position and just increased your investor level also I doubt you would use your mod rights unless something obvious like ad spams or whatever, you do not look like a guy who likes silencing others.

If only hanging out on the forums were the extent of the work required to run a casino

Has it been publicly stated how much it was sold to devans for? Or is that private information?

Nope, that remains undisclosed.

[Supercrypt]

Of course, I didn't mean like the only thing required is to be online on the forum but honestly it would be disingenuous to even think RHavars existence in this chat is not helpful.

I mean he was the owner, he sold it (or transferred the ownership, we don't know if money was involved) and he could have just left, he didn't and he is still here, of course there are ton of other works to be done on the website I am sure but RHavar has been taking care of one part of it when he doesn't have to unless we don't know a rule in the sale contract that states he will stay and help answering peoples questions.

Don't get me wrong you are doing an amazing job running this website, hell maybe even better than him who knows, I just wanted to praise his helpfulness and that is all, it wasn't meant to diminish your work, it was to praise his. One can exist without the other.

[xvids]

My favorite gambling site ,
Wish I have found out that I could invest in that site,
I should have invested instead of losing all of my money 😂.

[justspare]

Both investing and gambling have their own good parts mate, don't worry about it. If you invest you can make money and that is great can talk about how awesome it is to be invested in a website this trustworthy and one of the rarest places on earth where you can leave your money and never look back and know for sure that you will be profiting every day so yeah you are right that its awesome to invest.

However this doesn't mean gambling and losing money is bad neither, of course if you lost more money than you can afford that is always bad however if you gamble with money you can afford to lose and wouldn't mind losing than this is a game where you play against the casino with other players, you go shoulder to shoulder with your fellow gamblers and feel the wish of trillions of people (okay maybe not trillions) to see the game go above x2 and sometimes even more. That sense of togetherness of gamblers is non-existing in any other game and believe me this game worth the money you put in when you play.

[xvids]

Seem's like there are still Nyan catcher out there ,
I am just curious what is the highest multiplier that have been achieved?
https://ibb.co/nbC1m1N