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Author Topic: [2018-02-08]The Tax Authority of Lithuania Closes Bitcoin ATMs in Shopping Mall  (Read 60 times)
Vladdirescu87
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February 09, 2018, 04:37:59 PM
 #1

Two Bitcoin ATMs had been working in Lithuanian shopping center GO9, but the State Tax Inspectorate of Lithuania (Valstybinė mokesčių inspekcija - VMI) asked the owner company to shut them down. The authorities explained that the ATM can’t work on the financial market until they have appropriate certifications.

Read the details in the article of Coinidol dot com, the world blockchain news outlet: https://coinidol.com/lithuania-closes-bitcoin-atms/

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February 10, 2018, 05:37:12 PM
 #2

At first, i was suprised since Lithuania is know for good eviroment for block chain start ups and crypto projects in general.
But I believe that this does not represent the policy of whole country but only problems with the tax collection division, nothing to be afraid of Smiley

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February 10, 2018, 07:56:28 PM
 #3

It's not bad news. What if anybody could set up a fake ATM anywhere they pleased without having to register anywhere. Most countries have similar requirements and want the providers of any financial service providers, automated or not, to register their machines. Those ATM's were not only trading cryptocurrencies but receiving fiat and since fiat is owned by the government some action was to be expected.
At first, i was suprised since Lithuania is know for good eviroment for block chain start ups and crypto projects in general.
But I believe that this does not represent the policy of whole country but only problems with the tax collection division, nothing to be afraid of Smiley

Whether the environment remains good or not will depend on their decision regarding the certifications. It's all fine as long as you can apply, fill out the paperwork and get the permit. The problems start when you do everything by the book and are still denied the right to function.

 
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February 10, 2018, 08:30:54 PM
 #4

It's not bad news. What if anybody could set up a fake ATM anywhere they pleased without having to register anywhere. Most countries have similar requirements and want the providers of any financial service providers, automated or not, to register their machines. Those ATM's were not only trading cryptocurrencies but receiving fiat and since fiat is owned by the government some action was to be expected.
At first, i was suprised since Lithuania is know for good eviroment for block chain start ups and crypto projects in general.
But I believe that this does not represent the policy of whole country but only problems with the tax collection division, nothing to be afraid of Smiley

Whether the environment remains good or not will depend on their decision regarding the certifications. It's all fine as long as you can apply, fill out the paperwork and get the permit. The problems start when you do everything by the book and are still denied the right to function.

So what if it receives fiat? You could consider them as an advanced vending machine. The problem does not seem to be the receipt of fiat, but the attitude of the income tax department towards cryptocurrencies. I assume they have the usual concerns over anonymity and tax evasion. It could take some time before they get the hang of cryptocurrencies.


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February 10, 2018, 09:00:46 PM
 #5

Ehem. I thought that Lithuania is confiscating the ATM because of some suspicious. I think this is a good news. The authorities just wanted to set up everything and make it 'legal' in a sense to operate the ATM. Probably some business permit or something. Nothing to worry here. No crackdowns as of yet in the country.

At first, i was suprised since Lithuania is know for good eviroment for block chain start ups and crypto projects in general.
But I believe that this does not represent the policy of whole country but only problems with the tax collection division, nothing to be afraid of Smiley

My thoughts exactly. Like I said, probably some formally like documentations for tax purposes, business permit to operated. Yes the country is on the neutral grounds as far as crypto and I hope that they will stay that way.

 
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February 10, 2018, 09:30:30 PM
 #6

So what if it receives fiat? You could consider them as an advanced vending machine. The problem does not seem to be the receipt of fiat, but the attitude of the income tax department towards cryptocurrencies. I assume they have the usual concerns over anonymity and tax evasion. It could take some time before they get the hang of cryptocurrencies.

A vending machine doesn't operate on high limits like that. What if there was a vending machine that sells gold bars? Would that require a registration? In a Bitcoin ATM you can easily buy cryptocurrency worth a couple thousand USD and you could be doing that with a credit card and a transaction is difficult to trace and irreversible. I'm pretty sure if a teenager took a credit card belonging to his father and bought Bitcoin the first thing a father would do is try to call the ATM company asking for a refund, yet in cryptocurrency things like that don't exist and the company that owns the ATM is not in control of the accounts.
Cryptocurrency is still a mystery to most of the society. They don't understand that there's no customer support and nobody to complain to and nobody to sue, so I can fully understand the authorities here.

 
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February 10, 2018, 09:58:40 PM
 #7

We need regulations and Bitcoin to go mainstream. Closing ATM's like that is actually funny, but if something needs to be regulated it only can be done with legalization.
Legalization of cryptocurrencies will be the one of the hot topics for 2018.
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February 11, 2018, 12:05:16 AM
 #8

So what if it receives fiat? You could consider them as an advanced vending machine. The problem does not seem to be the receipt of fiat, but the attitude of the income tax department towards cryptocurrencies. I assume they have the usual concerns over anonymity and tax evasion. It could take some time before they get the hang of cryptocurrencies.

A vending machine doesn't operate on high limits like that. What if there was a vending machine that sells gold bars? Would that require a registration? .


There are vending machines that sell gold bars. They don't require registration for small purchases, but you have to register to make big purchases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_to_Go#Machines

Quote
Gold to Go is a product brand made by the TG Gold-Super-Markt corporation designed to dispense items made of pure gold from automated banking vending machines.[1] The first gold-plated vending machine, located in the lobby of the Emirates Palace hotel in Abu Dhabi, dispenses 320 items made of gold, including 10-gram gold bars and customized gold coins.[2] There are currently twenty vending machines installed across three continents, with the first vending machine in the United States installed in Boca Raton, Florida in December 2010

Quote
The vending machines are covered in gold leaf, and include a touch screen, cash and credit card slots, and a lighted display showcase. Users must scan identification for purchases exceeding 100 Euro, and any single user may only access the system three times in one day before an enforced 48-hour break to prevent money laundering.
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February 11, 2018, 10:53:52 AM
 #9

It's not bad news. What if anybody could set up a fake ATM anywhere they pleased without having to register anywhere.
That is a very good point.
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February 11, 2018, 12:11:56 PM
 #10

So what if it receives fiat? You could consider them as an advanced vending machine. The problem does not seem to be the receipt of fiat, but the attitude of the income tax department towards cryptocurrencies. I assume they have the usual concerns over anonymity and tax evasion. It could take some time before they get the hang of cryptocurrencies.

A vending machine doesn't operate on high limits like that. What if there was a vending machine that sells gold bars? Would that require a registration? .


There are vending machines that sell gold bars. They don't require registration for small purchases, but you have to register to make big purchases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_to_Go#Machines

Quote
Gold to Go is a product brand made by the TG Gold-Super-Markt corporation designed to dispense items made of pure gold from automated banking vending machines.[1] The first gold-plated vending machine, located in the lobby of the Emirates Palace hotel in Abu Dhabi, dispenses 320 items made of gold, including 10-gram gold bars and customized gold coins.[2] There are currently twenty vending machines installed across three continents, with the first vending machine in the United States installed in Boca Raton, Florida in December 2010

Quote
The vending machines are covered in gold leaf, and include a touch screen, cash and credit card slots, and a lighted display showcase. Users must scan identification for purchases exceeding 100 Euro, and any single user may only access the system three times in one day before an enforced 48-hour break to prevent money laundering.


Well, the fact that registration is required to make big purchases pretty much proves the point of the previous poster. Even if a registration was not required, you could argue that there is no possibility of a vending machine to be confused with something else; whereas a bitcoin ATM could very well be confused with a regular ATM, leading users to lose their money somehow.

I think it is perfectly acceptable and positive that these ATMs are regulated, so that people who don't know what bitcoin is don't lose their money and claim that bitcoin is a scam, which would lead to a worse image for bitcoin.

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February 11, 2018, 12:41:26 PM
 #11

I don't doubt that tax service was following some of the government's law in this concrete case, but will they shut down all bitcoin ATM in the country or this two are everything Lithuania has?
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