Question for weusecoins.com

[the founder]

I had a quick question,  why is instawallet and mybitcoin listed there but not flexcoin.com ?

http://www.weusecoins.com/getting-started.php

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[nanotube]

probably because it smells of scam like a week-old open can of sardines left in the street smells of rotten fish.

first bitcoin bank? false, mybitcoin was first, and others later.

pay interest? using funds coming from where? possibilities: other people's accounts (ponzi scheme); lending out people's deposits (fractional reserve without insurance - just wait for that first bank run); founders actually handing out their own money (yea right).

[the founder]

Scam?   I own Yooter and Yooter owns Flexcoin...   so you're calling me a scammer?     Mybitcoin is not the first bank.. it's maybe the first online wallet.. ...  where does mybitcoin pay interest like a bank?  or have bank like features?    It's an online bitcoin client..  kudos for that.. but bank.. no interest,  no bank.    Flexcoin is the first bitcoin bank.

Flexcoin pays interest from mining and some transaction fees.  But that's great to hear people like you call it a scam...    granted your personal attacks are not justified...  (in fact they are completely off and wrong)  but the positives I can get from it is that you want how flexcoin earns income clearly labled so you can get some trust into it.

[casascius]

Scam?   I own Yooter and Yooter owns Flexcoin...   so you're calling me a scammer?     Mybitcoin is not the first bank.. it's maybe the first online wallet.. ...  where does mybitcoin pay interest like a bank?  or have bank like features?    It's an online bitcoin client..  kudos for that.. but bank.. no interest,  no bank.    Flexcoin is the first bitcoin bank.

Flexcoin pays interest from mining and some transaction fees.  But that's great to hear people like you call it a scam...    granted your personal attacks are not justified...  (in fact they are completely off and wrong)  but the positives I can get from it is that you want how flexcoin earns income clearly labled so you can get some trust into it.

If I open a Chase checking account and it doesn't pay me interest, does that mean Chase is not a bank?  That's a pretty silly definition of a bank that I don't think is going to go over well with too many people.

[the founder]

Scam?   I own Yooter and Yooter owns Flexcoin...   so you're calling me a scammer?     Mybitcoin is not the first bank.. it's maybe the first online wallet.. ...  where does mybitcoin pay interest like a bank?  or have bank like features?    It's an online bitcoin client..  kudos for that.. but bank.. no interest,  no bank.    Flexcoin is the first bitcoin bank.

Flexcoin pays interest from mining and some transaction fees.  But that's great to hear people like you call it a scam...    granted your personal attacks are not justified...  (in fact they are completely off and wrong)  but the positives I can get from it is that you want how flexcoin earns income clearly labled so you can get some trust into it.

If I open a Chase checking account and it doesn't pay me interest, does that mean Chase is not a bank?  That's a pretty silly definition of a bank that I don't think is going to go over well with too many people.

the number of people that use it proves otherwise...  all the invites were used within the first day.     We're slow on inviting people because honestly I am more concerned with security than anything else...      but look I am here to stay..   it's not like I am not contributing to the community...

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26527.0;topicseen

clearly I started the counter-attack on one of the first legal attacks on bitcoins.

 

[jostmey]

Hello, I run the search engine for that page!

Flex Coin is in there. There was a bug in the code that is being fixed.

If you do a search for flexcoin and scroll down to the bottom you will see it. Essentially the search results are flipped, and this will be fixed by tomorrow.

I appreciate your patience in this.

[the founder]

you rock man.. thanks!

[wareen]

Nobody should prejudge flexcoin.com without some hard facts about fraudulent activity!

@the founder: you surely could help building trust in your site by openly declaring your business practices and plans. I know you offered some scattered information in various threads but you could gain much from being more upfront with this issue. Have a look at the introduction thread from TradeHill for a good example.

With Bitcoin relieving us from the trust issue in the payment processing itself, it shifts all the trust concerns towards the merchants / service providers. Please be aware of that - especially when you want people to entrust their money to you.

Having said that, I really wish you all the best with your site!

[the founder]

That makes sense...  i'll publish the business model on the site over the weekend...  that way everyone can explore it and see that it would make more sense for us to run it as a legitimate business rather than "scam"  people.. because clearly there are 2 things on people's mind.

1 - security (reminded by mtgox)
2 - valid business (stability)

That's it...  everything else is minor compared to those two it appears.

[nanotube]

Scam?   I own Yooter and Yooter owns Flexcoin...   so you're calling me a scammer?     Mybitcoin is not the first bank.. it's maybe the first online wallet.. ...  where does mybitcoin pay interest like a bank?  or have bank like features?    It's an online bitcoin client..  kudos for that.. but bank.. no interest,  no bank.    Flexcoin is the first bitcoin bank.

Flexcoin pays interest from mining and some transaction fees.  But that's great to hear people like you call it a scam...    granted your personal attacks are not justified...  (in fact they are completely off and wrong)  but the positives I can get from it is that you want how flexcoin earns income clearly labled so you can get some trust into it.

i said that it /smells/ like a scam, given the information that i see on the site. i was not calling you a scammer, since i didn't even know who owns that site (now i know it's you).

re: my claims:

paying interest is not a necessary precondition for calling something a bank (this was addressed in a post above already), therefore i stand by my assertion that your claim of being the 'first bitcoin bank' is false. feel free to check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank . a bank is a financial intermediary - which mybitcoin (and any ewallet before it) is.

further - "paying interest" is done by "normal banks" by lending out deposits at interest. you did not state where you get the funds for paying interest. so it was certainly a natural assumption that you are not in fact handing out free money.

if you're paying interest out of your own mining output... well good for you, i wonder how long until you get tired of handing out money for free. any business whose model is to hand out free money for nothing doesn't last long.

if you want your site to stop smelling like a scam (at least in my eyes - but probably in many reasonable people's eyes as well), i would suggest to stop making false claims, and to describe your business model so that it is clear where 'interest' is coming from, and how you are (or plan to) actually be profitable running this enterprise in the long term. (hint: handing out free money and making it up in volume is probably not going to work ).

[geek-trader]

Nobody should prejudge flexcoin.com without some hard facts about fraudulent activity!

@the founder: you surely could help building trust in your site by openly declaring your business practices and plans. I know you offered some scattered information in various threads but you could gain much from being more upfront with this issue. Have a look at the introduction thread from TradeHill for a good example.

With Bitcoin relieving us from the trust issue in the payment processing itself, it shifts all the trust concerns towards the merchants / service providers. Please be aware of that - especially when you want people to entrust their money to you.

Having said that, I really wish you all the best with your site!

I agree.  As stated on the bitcoin.org website:

"Within the Bitcoin community, many are very careful with their security and identity. This is primarily for two reasons:
* There is no violent body to cover your back for you, or, more simply, there are no courts to seek assistance from if your transaction sours.
* One’s reputation is the most important thing that any user has; traders will take very little risk with new users who have not proven themselves (as they could just be last week’s scammer with a new identity)"

As stated, if I send you BTC, it's yours.  There is NO WAY I can get it back.  There's no filing a dispute.  Therefore, I have to totally trust you.  You have to give me reason to trust you.

For this reason, many on these boards are very quick to cry "scammer!".  Maybe too quick, but you can see the reasons.

That said, we need a BTC bank.  So I want to trust you.  I look forward to your posts this weekend.

[jostmey]

The issue that caused this original thread has been resolved!

The search results were coming in upside-down, so when people typed in their own website in the search-box they would see their website last.

If the search results are still upside then clear your browsers cache - otherwise the old code will run.

The guys at www.weusecoins.com are really awesome for beta testing my API. And the search results will be passed along to the bitcoin stores so that they know what to sell !

[the founder]

I agree.  As stated on the bitcoin.org website:

"Within the Bitcoin community, many are very careful with their security and identity. This is primarily for two reasons:
* There is no violent body to cover your back for you, or, more simply, there are no courts to seek assistance from if your transaction sours.
* One’s reputation is the most important thing that any user has; traders will take very little risk with new users who have not proven themselves (as they could just be last week’s scammer with a new identity)"

As stated, if I send you BTC, it's yours.  There is NO WAY I can get it back.  There's no filing a dispute.  Therefore, I have to totally trust you.  You have to give me reason to trust you.

For this reason, many on these boards are very quick to cry "scammer!".  Maybe too quick, but you can see the reasons.

That said, we need a BTC bank.  So I want to trust you.  I look forward to your posts this weekend.

Ok the site has been updated with far more information.. everything from the TOS to privacy policy has been posted...  more invites have gone out today.. and we might even be opening up for general registration in a short as 72 hours.   Honestly the demand has been slightly overwhelming because evidently there's a land rush for flexcoin id's...  

Most likely what's causing the spike :  
http://www.flexcoin.com/?page_id=103

This is the TOS :
http://www.flexcoin.com/?page_id=118  

This is the updated FAQ  :
http://www.flexcoin.com/?page_id=15

Privacy and Security page:
http://www.flexcoin.com/?page_id=22


I think you'll have a much better idea of it's sustainability and business model now...  hopefully this will put to rest any questions

[piuk]

Bumping an old question. Would the weusecoins please consider a link to My Wallet on the Getting started page? What are the criteria for approval?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Bumping an old question. Would the weusecoins please consider a link to My Wallet on the Getting started page? What are the criteria for approval?

First criteria isn't to necro some barely related thread.
Create new thread (and possibly link to old thread).

[PrintCoins]

I don't think flexcoin should be listed on the getting started page. It is a bank, not a wallet service. It is way too complicated for a new user, and I have no idea where private keys are being stored, but I am guessing on their server. This could be the same as replacing one scam hacked server (mybitcoin) with another.

Instawallet, strongcoin, My Wallet, android wallet, and other services that focus on open source and not storing private keys with some operator is important.

[the founder]

I don't think flexcoin should be listed on the getting started page. It is a bank, not a wallet service. It is way too complicated for a new user, and I have no idea where private keys are being stored, but I am guessing on their server. This could be the same as replacing one scam hacked server (mybitcoin) with another.

Instawallet, strongcoin, My Wallet, android wallet, and other services that focus on open source and not storing private keys with some operator is important.

I have to say I strongly disagree.....   

1 - we're not mybitcoin ... there's no mystery on who runs it.
2 - we have an operational history that has proven to be reliable.

Explain to me how instawallet is different from flexcoin in terms of where the wallet is located?  Because you vouched for one,  but an identical one you dismiss.

[SgtSpike]

Hmmm...

My username is SgtSpike, but it appears as though someone already registered as SgtSpike on flexcoin.  It's not me, because both of my emails come back with an error when I try to recover my password.

Ideas?  I have a feeling that anyone who registered as SgtSpike who wasn't me probably has malicious intentions in mind...

[PrintCoins]

I don't think flexcoin should be listed on the getting started page. It is a bank, not a wallet service. It is way too complicated for a new user, and I have no idea where private keys are being stored, but I am guessing on their server. This could be the same as replacing one scam hacked server (mybitcoin) with another.

Instawallet, strongcoin, My Wallet, android wallet, and other services that focus on open source and not storing private keys with some operator is important.

I have to say I strongly disagree.....   

1 - we're not mybitcoin ... there's no mystery on who runs it.
2 - we have an operational history that has proven to be reliable.

Explain to me how instawallet is different from flexcoin in terms of where the wallet is located?  Because you vouched for one,  but an identical one you dismiss.

You are right, after reading through their faq, it seems like instawallet should be taken off the list as they too store private keys on their server. It is a shame as they make it so darn easy to use their service.

I point people all of the time to weusecoins.com to educate and get people started on bitcoins. I don't want new user's faith in the system to be destroyed due to your server getting hacked. It doesn't matter if your identity is known. The legal system doesn't seem set up to protect users and the liability you might face if you defraud or just fail to protect user's coins seems to be limited to a tarnished reputation.

As a community we can never forget mybitcoin. Someone made off with a lot of money, and no one was ever caught. Heck the person that most likely committed the crime is practically the face of bitcoin with his video series.

Assuming we have 100% faith in your moral caliber:
Do you believe that your system is uncrackable? Keep in mind, your server is a vault with money in it. Digital money that can be taken away and never found again in a heart-beat. I wouldn't put that much faith in a wordpress driven site on a LAMP stack.

New users need to be directed to a system that can't be abused and doesn't represent a honey pot for hackers.

[the founder]

By that measure all bitcoin related sites,  such as Mt. Gox,  Installwallet,  Tradehill and Flexcoin fall under the notion that the only safe server is one that is completely unplugged and bricked.   

We had a huge uphill battle in terms of trust due to the thieves at Mybitcoin but I have to stress that if we as a community go that route there would be no such thing as a bitcoin related site,  ewallet,  or exchange... as all of them would require some sort of centralization in order to function.

I do disagree with your opinion,  HOWEVER I do understand where you are coming from.

I never had coins at mybitcoin,  but I felt the pain for months afterwards as people wouldn't trust any ewallet due to what happened.