[SCAM PREVENTION]Remove self-moderation for topics within the marketplace!

[BTCforJoe]

bump for a major problem that needs fixed

I think you are just wasting your time, the staff will never implement changes to stop scammers, even though they know you are correct, even though they know it's the right thing to do, their pride will get in the way.

A lot of people have said the same thing about spammers and shit posters. It took years, but the merit system was introduced as a self-governing way to combat the problem.

If enough people make noise and show concern here about scammers and their blatant/obvious attempts to scam people by utilizing certain tools/features that they have access to, then it's just a matter of time before the staff see this and explore the options and variables that are being brought up.

While this forum is not a democracy, the staff actually do listen. But I do understand your frustration; it may hold more value if theymos actually addressed some of these concerns, whether it's in favor of the suggestion or not.

[1714054593]

1714054593

[1714054593]

1714054593

[1714054593]

1714054593

[1714054593]

1714054593

[1714054593]

1714054593

[MiLkz]

But I think that this point is raised constantly because there hasn't been a valid solution that has been implemented. And until theymos or Cyrus answer in any of these topics with a definitive answer, they will continue to be asked. Additionally, requiring a member to check the Scam Accusations thread before purchasing anything and trying to navigate it to find a relevant post with the possibility that their seller will have a thread? HORRIBLE user flow, and highly ineffective. Which is why posts like this keep popping up.

Exactly

bump for a major problem that needs fixed

[BTCforJoe]

But I think that this point is raised constantly because there hasn't been a valid solution that has been implemented. And until theymos or Cyrus answer in any of these topics with a definitive answer, they will continue to be asked. Additionally, requiring a member to check the Scam Accusations thread before purchasing anything and trying to navigate it to find a relevant post with the possibility that their seller will have a thread? HORRIBLE user flow, and highly ineffective. Which is why posts like this keep popping up.

Exactly

bump for a major problem that needs fixed

I think we've hit a minor milestone. EcuaMobi's thread "[WARNING] Avoid auto-buy links, especially by newbies, locked or self-moderated" has been stickied to the Digital goods board.

While this isn't exactly the solution you've recommended, it is at least an acknowledgement by staff that there is a problem with [at least] newbie accounts that self-moderate their threads.

However, I still believe that there is a need to remove the feature from the marketplace altogether, so I'll continue to bump this thread occasionally until it is implemented, or at least addressed.

[MiLkz]

But I think that this point is raised constantly because there hasn't been a valid solution that has been implemented. And until theymos or Cyrus answer in any of these topics with a definitive answer, they will continue to be asked. Additionally, requiring a member to check the Scam Accusations thread before purchasing anything and trying to navigate it to find a relevant post with the possibility that their seller will have a thread? HORRIBLE user flow, and highly ineffective. Which is why posts like this keep popping up.

Exactly

bump for a major problem that needs fixed

I think we've hit a minor milestone. EcuaMobi's thread "[WARNING] Avoid auto-buy links, especially by newbies, locked or self-moderated" has been stickied to the Digital goods board.

While this isn't exactly the solution you've recommended, it is at least an acknowledgement by staff that there is a problem with [at least] newbie accounts that self-moderate their threads.

However, I still believe that there is a need to remove the feature from the marketplace altogether, so I'll continue to bump this thread occasionally until it is implemented, or at least addressed.

Yes, that helps some, definitely better than nothing.

Do we have any idea what mod stickied that thread?  Maybe they can contact the admin..

[BTCforJoe]

But I think that this point is raised constantly because there hasn't been a valid solution that has been implemented. And until theymos or Cyrus answer in any of these topics with a definitive answer, they will continue to be asked. Additionally, requiring a member to check the Scam Accusations thread before purchasing anything and trying to navigate it to find a relevant post with the possibility that their seller will have a thread? HORRIBLE user flow, and highly ineffective. Which is why posts like this keep popping up.

Exactly

bump for a major problem that needs fixed

I think we've hit a minor milestone. EcuaMobi's thread "[WARNING] Avoid auto-buy links, especially by newbies, locked or self-moderated" has been stickied to the Digital goods board.

While this isn't exactly the solution you've recommended, it is at least an acknowledgement by staff that there is a problem with [at least] newbie accounts that self-moderate their threads.

However, I still believe that there is a need to remove the feature from the marketplace altogether, so I'll continue to bump this thread occasionally until it is implemented, or at least addressed.

Yes, that helps some, definitely better than nothing.

Do we have any idea what mod stickied that thread?  Maybe they can contact the admin..

It kind of happened under the radar, and afaik, no one took credit for it. Maybe ask EcuaMobi?

[EcuaMobi]

It kind of happened under the radar, and afaik, no one took credit for it. Maybe ask EcuaMobi?

I don't know who made that thread sticky. I don't have any information. I just hope it helps reducing the scams, especially against newbies and non-registered users.


I just saw this, sorry for the late reply:

I'd also forbid them to unlock threads.

Yep, I have that in my original suggestion. Locked threads can just as easily be using in the same fashion as self-moderation.

I know you included locked threads in OP. My point was that I'd forbid threads being unlocked rather than being locked.
Allowing newbies to lock threads can be useful some times.

[MiLkz]

I know you included locked threads in OP. My point was that I'd forbid threads being unlocked rather than being locked.
Allowing newbies to lock threads can be useful some times.

My fault, I see now

Removing the ability to unlock threads would allow them only 1 bump before they had to lock it, however..  The scammers would then have to create a new thread and quickly lock it every time they wanted to bump.  This would circumvent our new limitations and create more spam.

I think the ability to delete a thread would suffice for what you want?

[EcuaMobi]

Removing the ability to unlock threads would allow them only 1 bump before they had to lock it, however..  The scammers would then have to create a new thread and quickly lock it every time they wanted to bump.  This would circumvent our new limitations and create more spam.

You're right, that would be a problem. There could be rules for newbies and jr. members to prevent them from creating a new thread after several days they've locked one, but that would probably bee too complex.

I think the ability to delete a thread would suffice for what you want?

Yes, I guess. But considering only moderators can delete threads (I mean the whole thread and OP, not only a single post) then I think it's too much to ask to allow newbies to delete their threads. Besides it can delete other's warnings and important information.

[MiLkz]

Yes, I guess. But considering only moderators can delete threads (I mean the whole thread and OP, not only a single post) then I think it's too much to ask to allow newbies to delete their threads. Besides it can delete other's warnings and important information.

Oh, I didn't know the delete did not work for an entire thread, I have never tried it.  Well they can at least edit the main topic to avoid negative trust.

[malikusama]

Appreciation from my side, I agree what you have said, self moderation topics are heaven for scammers and to restrict users to create self moderation topics in marketplace will help to reduce their impact on forum.
If administrator or staff don't want to implement it for all members then this would be the best option indeed.

Only users with the rank of Member or below would lose their self-moderation options.

[warningsigns]

Please tag this account:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3189236.0

Registered today and very first post is a locked post on the Goods section.

I pm'd him a few times asking him to unlock the thread but as usual I expect to be ignored.

[BTCforJoe]

Please tag this account:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3189236.0

Registered today and very first post is a locked post on the Goods section.

I pm'd him a few times asking him to unlock the thread but as usual I expect to be ignored.

Post it in EcuaMobi's thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3035620.0

You're more likely to get a quicker response from there. Or simply sending EM a PM is probably the quickest way.

It just sucks seeing the self-moderated and/or locked topics keep popping up in the marketplace. Every time I see one, I think to myself that another sucker is about to get got...

[bolinao]

A lot of people have said the same thing about spammers and shit posters. It took years, but the merit system was introduced as a self-governing way to combat the problem.

Well let hope this doesn't take years to implement. I believe this is a matter of urgency and the longer it takes the more people will be scammed.

t

[bolinao]

Yet more reasons why this needs to be implemented, how many more people need to be scammed ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3035620.msg33231264#msg33231264

https://ufile.io/k4zr4

[MiLkz]

Yet more reasons why this needs to be implemented, how many more people need to be scammed ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3035620.msg33231264#msg33231264

https://ufile.io/k4zr4

Yep

I am sure it happens a lot more than we know about.. and it will continue.. they bump their threads every hour filling half of the first page of digital goods with scams -.-

[bill gator]

If we are going to implement what you are suggest Milkz, then we would also need to take EcuaMobi's newest thread into consideration when doing so. It may be a little known fact, but there exists exploits that would enable a user to take advantage of a thread as if it was self-moderated, even without making it self-moderated.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3191518.msg33077273#msg33077273

I'm not sure about all of the nuances, or exactly how this would play into what is being suggested, but it certainly cannot be discounted if removing self-moderation from lower-ranking members is something that is to be taken seriously.

I bumped into a Jr. Member today that had a self-moderated thread, in which they were blatantly a scammer that was deleting any critical comments, reasonable questions or pretty much anything except for vouches (from their alts?) and self-bumps. After a few other members jumped in on their thread to warn potential victims they resorted to locking their thread. I imagine this user will unlock their thread when they feel it is safe.

TheQuinn suggested an auto-lock after X days without a post and I thought this might work nicely in conjunction with what is being proposed. Auto-lock after X days, not allowing lower ranking members to self-moderate their topics, fixing the loopholes as pointed out by EcuaMobi and potentially not allowing these members to unlock their threads as well. All of this would play nicely towards a more tidy and strict on newbies approach that would almost certainly benefit the forum in a major way.

[bolinao]

If we are going to implement what you are suggest Milkz, then we would also need to take EcuaMobi's newest thread into consideration when doing so. It may be a little known fact, but there exists exploits that would enable a user to take advantage of a thread as if it was self-moderated, even without making it self-moderated.

This shouldn't be a problem, if you took away the ability for newer members to self moderate then they would not be able to self moderate, no matter what forum they moved their thread to, right ?

[bill gator]

This shouldn't be a problem, if you took away the ability for newer members to self moderate then they would not be able to self moderate, no matter what forum they moved their thread to, right ?

It may or may not be a problem. I was simply trying to bring up relevant information and point out that our current system is able to be abused even if they are unable to self-moderate in a particular board. There just constantly seems to be something we are failing to consider, which leads to an exploit of some kind to some degree. Something fell through the cracks, and so those places where staff has decided that newbies cannot self-moderate on these boards are still able to be self-moderated. I'm just saying we need to be wary of our past mistakes and not to allow them to slip through in our future solutions and implementations.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3198529.0

I've been trying to post warnings on this users thread, they've already been tagged by DT members, but it's still annoying seeing them bump their thread, while deleting any critical comments. Freely allowing them to spam their scam, without anyone being able to jump in. I'm in full support if we're being honest.

[MiLkz]

I wasn't even aware we could move threads, let alone exploit it.  I completely agree with EcuaMobi, the exploit would have to be removed.

EDIT: theymos took care of the exploit already, check ecuamobi's thread for his response

[bolinao]

Feeling depressed because staff won't take this problem seriously.    BUMP