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Author Topic: Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet  (Read 584975 times)
birr
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December 09, 2014, 01:32:26 PM
Last edit: December 09, 2014, 02:15:38 PM by birr
 #1121

I was just contacted, for the first time, through local trader by someone who wants to buy coins from me and something's wrong.  From what I can tell, he doesn't see my chat posts, and I don't see his.  Anyway, he answered my ad yesterday, I entered my phone number in the chat box and said text me.  Nothing.  So this morning, same guy answers my ad again.  I type my phone number and tell him to call or text. Nothing.  I cancel the order from yesterday, because now we're on a new one.  Then I see where it says you "may" get hit with a reputation penalty if you cancel a deal.  May?  Do you or do you not penalize?  What's the deal, does somebody at Mycelium flip a coin to decide whether to penalize each canceled deal?  And shouldn't it be obvious that sometimes you just have to cancel?

Edit:  The guy just answered my ad for the fourth time, and still no communication.  I put my phone number in the ad.
I want to put a stop to this.
Now I have this list of pending deals going nowhere, which I can't cancel for fear of damaging my reputation.  To top it all off, I had to deactivate my ad.

Local Trader needs to have a block function where I can bar clowns like this Leonardo guy.  And allow us to cancel without penalty.
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December 09, 2014, 01:54:22 PM
 #1122


Then I see where it says you "may" get hit with a reputation penalty if you cancel a deal.  May?  Do you or do you not penalize?  What's the deal, does somebody at Mycelium flip a coin to decide whether to penalize each canceled deal?  And shouldn't it be obvious that sometimes you just have to cancel?

Yes, that's bothering me too. Hope this will be changed soon.

"Unser Problem ist nicht ziviler Ungehorsam, unser Problem ist ziviler Gehorsam."  - Howard Zinn
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December 09, 2014, 08:49:58 PM
 #1123

I was trying to confirm the "cold storage spending" feature and change return process with a simple test.  It did not work as I expected it to.  Hopefully someone can tell me what I did wrong.

I had an address with only 0.25 mBTC in it.  I used the Mycelium Cold Storage feature to spend from it.  I scanned the private key and had it spend 0.14999 mBTC to one of my Mycelium addresses, and a miner's fee of 0.1 mBTC.  I was expecting to see the remaining 0.00000001 mBTC returned as change to the same cold storage address.

Instead, what happened was that the 0.14999 mBTC went to my Mycelium address, but the miner got 0.00010001 mBTC.  So, was that new amount an adjusted miner's fee?  Or was the miner's fee still 0.1 mBTC, but the change of 0.00000001 mBTC go to the miner?

Or does this have something to do with the small dust levels I'm playing with?  If I was to spend a partial amount from my cold storage, how can I trust that the change will be returned to my paper wallet?

Thanks
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December 09, 2014, 09:51:39 PM
 #1124

I was just contacted, for the first time, through local trader by someone who wants to buy coins from me and something's wrong.  From what I can tell, he doesn't see my chat posts, and I don't see his.  Anyway, he answered my ad yesterday, I entered my phone number in the chat box and said text me.  Nothing.  So this morning, same guy answers my ad again.  I type my phone number and tell him to call or text. Nothing.  I cancel the order from yesterday, because now we're on a new one.  Then I see where it says you "may" get hit with a reputation penalty if you cancel a deal.  May?  Do you or do you not penalize?  What's the deal, does somebody at Mycelium flip a coin to decide whether to penalize each canceled deal?  And shouldn't it be obvious that sometimes you just have to cancel?

Edit:  The guy just answered my ad for the fourth time, and still no communication.  I put my phone number in the ad.
I want to put a stop to this.
Now I have this list of pending deals going nowhere, which I can't cancel for fear of damaging my reputation.  To top it all off, I had to deactivate my ad.

Local Trader needs to have a block function where I can bar clowns like this Leonardo guy.  And allow us to cancel without penalty.

I also have my text number in my ad with instructions in the ad description. Yet my trade history shows 4 stopped the trade, 1 timed out after I pasted the instructions in the chat, and 1 _I_ stopped the trade after they didn't respond to my reply.

I know they see the description when they click on the ad...

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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December 10, 2014, 02:57:47 AM
 #1125


How about impacting the other party's rating when I accepted the trade, but they let it time out?

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Rassah
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December 10, 2014, 09:37:57 AM
 #1126

 Then I see where it says you "may" get hit with a reputation penalty if you cancel a deal.  May?  Do you or do you not penalize?  What's the deal, does somebody at Mycelium flip a coin to decide whether to penalize each canceled deal?  And shouldn't it be obvious that sometimes you just have to cancel?

You ONLY get penalized if you Accept the offer by pressing the Accept button, and then cancel the offer after. If you just cancel the offer, it won't affect you. So don't hit Accept Offer until you are very sure you are going to trade, and are probably on your way to do it. As for the guy sending you requests and not replying, I don't know why, but some people just do that. I get those too. It's not that the messages don't get through, it's that they just don't say anything. Yes, we need to add many more features and much more functionality to this thing. We're working on it.

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December 10, 2014, 09:46:43 AM
Last edit: December 10, 2014, 10:09:18 AM by Rassah
 #1127

I was trying to confirm the "cold storage spending" feature and change return process with a simple test.  It did not work as I expected it to.  Hopefully someone can tell me what I did wrong.

I had an address with only 0.25 mBTC in it.  I used the Mycelium Cold Storage feature to spend from it.  I scanned the private key and had it spend 0.14999 mBTC to one of my Mycelium addresses, and a miner's fee of 0.1 mBTC.  I was expecting to see the remaining 0.00000001 mBTC returned as change to the same cold storage address.

Instead, what happened was that the 0.14999 mBTC went to my Mycelium address, but the miner got 0.00010001 mBTC.  So, was that new amount an adjusted miner's fee?  Or was the miner's fee still 0.1 mBTC, but the change of 0.00000001 mBTC go to the miner?

Reply from Daniel, one of our devs:

Quote
I just checked the code - we are combining unpent outputs until we have enough, and if the resulting change is smaller than the dust limit (i.e. would be unspendable), we include it into the miner fee and dont sent it back as change

So yeah, the reason you didn't get change back to the paper was because it would have gotten stuck on there permanently, due to being below the dust threshold. Sorry you had to lose $0.00000347 in that experiment.

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December 10, 2014, 10:53:17 AM
 #1128

I was trying to confirm the "cold storage spending" feature and change return process with a simple test.  It did not work as I expected it to.  Hopefully someone can tell me what I did wrong.

I had an address with only 0.25 mBTC in it.  I used the Mycelium Cold Storage feature to spend from it.  I scanned the private key and had it spend 0.14999 mBTC to one of my Mycelium addresses, and a miner's fee of 0.1 mBTC.  I was expecting to see the remaining 0.00000001 mBTC returned as change to the same cold storage address.

Instead, what happened was that the 0.14999 mBTC went to my Mycelium address, but the miner got 0.00010001 mBTC.  So, was that new amount an adjusted miner's fee?  Or was the miner's fee still 0.1 mBTC, but the change of 0.00000001 mBTC go to the miner?

Or does this have something to do with the small dust levels I'm playing with?  If I was to spend a partial amount from my cold storage, how can I trust that the change will be returned to my paper wallet?

Thanks

There is a minimum limit for standard outputs, 5460 satoshis. if such an output is part of a transaction it is considered nonstandard and will by default not be relayed. (and thus not mined)
Mycelium makes sure that your transactions have a chance of working and does not produce change outputs that are smaller than this limit, so the rest <= 5460 satoshis is included in the mining fee.

the reason is, on average such outputs can not be spent economically because they make the transaction bigger. some more background info is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1drocs/to_everyone_wringing_their_hands_over_the_recent/
birr
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December 12, 2014, 05:01:31 AM
 #1129

You ONLY get penalized if you Accept the offer by pressing the Accept button, and then cancel the offer after.
Exactly.  We both accepted, he flaked out and I canceled the trade.  And now I pay the price!?
There are still three more trades that he started.  Can I cancel the expired trades or will I get stung again?
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December 12, 2014, 05:38:35 AM
 #1130

How about auto-cancelling non-performing trades after a week, like when the other party does absolutely nothing? Without penalty, of course.

Perhaps the inactive counter-party could get penalized. Perhaps ask the active user whether he agrees to cancel the non-performing trade without penalty.
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December 12, 2014, 06:10:59 AM
 #1131

3.   NFC Pay tapping - 1 Tap = 1 Pay

Not possible. At least not with one tap. You need 1 tap to request the address and amount to send to, then the wallet signs, and then one more tap to send the signed transaction. The reason 1 Tap = 1 Pay works with credit cards is because it's the equivalent of tapping to give the merchant your private key, and then having them only pull out what they need.

Horray!  Finally someone gets it!
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December 12, 2014, 08:26:13 AM
 #1132

You ONLY get penalized if you Accept the offer by pressing the Accept button, and then cancel the offer after.
Exactly.  We both accepted, he flaked out and I canceled the trade.  And now I pay the price!?
There are still three more trades that he started.  Can I cancel the expired trades or will I get stung again?

Why would you accept the trade without even knowing who the other person is, or whether they intend to go through with it?

In any case, that whole reputation thing needs to be rebuilt anyway. We hope to get to it some time soon.


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December 12, 2014, 09:42:07 AM
 #1133


I have been using Mycelium in my Android device for quite some time now, and I'd love to thank you for this great wallet. I really love it, and I have got no intentions to change it for another wallet.

Please, always do your best!


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December 12, 2014, 09:57:42 AM
 #1134

If you love our wallet, and love supporting us, PLEASE make sure that you have a working verified backup of your wallet, and any single address keys you may have. We had some incidents where people lost their keys for whatever reason (phone wiped, app uninstalled, etc) and the users didn't have a backup, or had an encrypted one without the password, making it useless. We also had someone who thought scanning their public bitcoin address into their wallet was all they needed to restore a backup, since the address was added and showed a balance in their wallet (it was a watch only address at that point), and they were quite upset when they sent more coins to that address, and later found out that they couldn't spend from it.
So, users losing coins upsets us a lot, we really hope everyone keeps their coins safe, and being safe and having backups keeps us happy and "supported"  Smiley

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December 12, 2014, 10:53:35 AM
Last edit: December 12, 2014, 12:17:23 PM by birr
 #1135


Why would you accept the trade without even knowing who the other person is, or whether they intend to go through with it?

My very first step out of the gate, I get hit with this reputation penalty.  Rather than accept responsibility for an obscure, tricky design,  you blame the problem on me.

Reputation penalty is for people who do something dishonest, or who inconvenience other users.  I didn't scam or even cause the mildest of inconvenience to any user whomsoever.  So I didn't deserve this penalty.  The fault is yours, not mine.

You should change the way Local Trader allocates penalties so this doesn't happen to anybody else; people to whom it has happened should have the undeserved penalty removed.
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December 12, 2014, 09:19:41 PM
 #1136


Why would you accept the trade without even knowing who the other person is, or whether they intend to go through with it?

My very first step out of the gate, I get hit with this reputation penalty.  Rather than accept responsibility for an obscure, tricky design,  you blame the problem on me.

Reputation penalty is for people who do something dishonest, or who inconvenience other users.  I didn't scam or even cause the mildest of inconvenience to any user whomsoever.  So I didn't deserve this penalty.  The fault is yours, not mine.

You should change the way Local Trader allocates penalties so this doesn't happen to anybody else; people to whom it has happened should have the undeserved penalty removed.

The point of the penalty is so that if you discuss the trade, plan to meet, set up a time and place, accept the conditions of the trade, and then don't show up after all that, you get dinged. So don't accept any trades until you are sure that it will happen, and until you want to make sure that whoever you are trading with knows they will get penalized if they don't show up too. If someone contacts you, you don't hit accept trade, and then you or they cancel the order, it won't affect your reputation. Maybe that was lost in translation somewhere, since we kind of assumed that the trade simply showing up in your listing is enough to "accept" it the way you do, where you discuss it, and then actually accepting it is the pre-final step before you go out to meet each other. Maybe you could suggest how we can rename it?

But in any case, this reputation hit is not a big deal at this point. It doesn't work right, people know it doesn't work right, and I haven't met anyone who actually pays attention to it. Plus, as I said, we WILL be changing the way reputation works in LocalTrader, mainly so that users can actually add reputation feedback themselves instead of it being automatic. Chances are that we will wipe and reset the score (star rating) when we switch, too, since, again, it doesn't really mean anything at this point.

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December 13, 2014, 03:39:35 PM
 #1137

Chances are that we will wipe and reset the score (star rating) when we switch, too, since, again, it doesn't really mean anything at this point.
Does that mean that every traders score will be reset?

"Unser Problem ist nicht ziviler Ungehorsam, unser Problem ist ziviler Gehorsam."  - Howard Zinn
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December 13, 2014, 09:29:52 PM
 #1138

OK, thanks for the explanation Rassah.
Now, on to other things.  I need to sign messages to several of the addresses in my HD wallet.  This is actually pretty important, because I'm undergoing an audit of sorts.  And the HD wallet doesn't seem to have message signing; at least I couldn't figure out a way to do it.
Time is of the essence.  If there was a way to export private keys from the HD wallet I could sign messsages to those addresses.  How can I do that?
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December 14, 2014, 08:35:52 AM
 #1139

birr: I think the easiest way for you would be importing the whole account to client that support signing, like Armory
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December 14, 2014, 12:50:59 PM
 #1140

If you select the account on accounts tab, choose "sign message" from the action bar menu. You get shown a alphabetically sorted list of all addresses the account has keys for. Select the one you want, and you'll be able to sign with it.

I am a bit confused cause you say it's not available, but I know for sure, cause I coded it myself ☺ Didn't we release it yet? It's for sure at least in beta, I definitely have it. Which version do you use? Might be you need to enable beta versions if you need it right away, I can't tell from the top of my head when exactly it was coded.
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