VMC Fast Hash Price Drop = 64GH/s for $1K in November

[DyslexicZombei]

Fast-Hash One Silver Edition Bitcoin Mining Machine. It's rackmountable. VMC announced a price drop. Allegedly shipping in November of this year.

Starts at 64GH/s for $1K up to 384GH/s for $2.5K.

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=21&controller=product#/fh_64ghs_module_a-total_64_gh_s_hashing

What's your take? And yes, we know some people hate all pre-orders but that's our reality until someone else has in-stock equipment besides AM.

Edit: The TGB mining dashboard analysis look awful waffle falafel for the 64GH/s unit at that price even at the start of November. Even if you somehow est. just 100W for the rig, it doesn't look good: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/12f33d066a

A December delivery's worse: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/ee4533240c

[1715297451]

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[1715297451]

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[1715297451]

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[eve]

You trying to promote your escrow service?

[DyslexicZombei]

You trying to promote your escrow service?

Nope. I don't need to mention it in every post to get attention or clients.    

How about you? Came by to say hi, even though I stole your thunder? Shtalker.

[Unacceptable]

You trying to promote your escrow service?

Nope. I don't need to mention it in every post to get attention or clients.    

How about you? Came by to say hi, even though I stole your thunder? Shtalker.

Awwww,you made a friend DZ 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOaL_i5bQu0

[DyslexicZombei]

You trying to promote your escrow service?

Nope. I don't need to mention it in every post to get attention or clients.    

How about you? Came by to say hi, even though I stole your thunder? Shtalker.

Awwww,you made a friend DZ 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOaL_i5bQu0

Aw! I know! I feel like we should all break out in song & dance!

http://youtu.be/k_t7pTfdYts

[VolanicEruptor]

Fast-Hash One Silver Edition Bitcoin Mining Machine. It's rackmountable. VMC announced a price drop. Allegedly shipping in November of this year.

Starts at 64GH/s for $1K up to 384GH/s for $2.5K.

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=21&controller=product#/fh_64ghs_module_a-total_64_gh_s_hashing

What's your take? And yes, we know some people hate all pre-orders but that's our reality until someone else has in-stock equipment besides AM.

Edit: The TGB mining dashboard analysis look awful waffle falafel for the 64GH/s unit at that price even at the start of November. Even if you somehow est. just 100W for the rig, it doesn't look good: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/12f33d066a

A December delivery's worse: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/ee4533240c

Prices slashed again! 
Now $6/GH, which is the best price for a November delivery!

[southerngentuk]

Pre-Order Terms: This is a pre-order. 28nm ASIC products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 3 months or more after order.

Are we sure BFL is not starting a new company.   

[VolanicEruptor]

Pre-Order Terms: This is a pre-order. 28nm ASIC products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 3 months or more after order.

Are we sure BFL is not starting a new company.  

The queue is small right now, VMC only has $80,000 of sales so far, based on a chip with a $1,000,000 NRE price tag!  So get in there and you won't be waiting 3 months! 
Would you rather be in an order queue that has $2,000,000 worth of orders in front of you?
Or one with $80,000?
Yeah, that's what I thought

[VolanicEruptor]

Are we sure BFL is not starting a new company.

BFL was not prepared for the massive production demands, eASIC is.
They have done work with Seagate and can pump these babies out by the masses.
 

[eve]

what is their miners protection and refund policy? would they accept credit cards?

[iikun]

Pre-Order Terms: This is a pre-order. 28nm ASIC products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 3 months or more after order.

Are we sure BFL is not starting a new company.  

The queue is small right now, VMC only has $80,000 of sales so far, based on a chip with a $1,000,000 NRE price tag!  So get in there and you won't be waiting 3 months! 
Would you rather be in an order queue that has $2,000,000 worth of orders in front of you?
Or one with $80,000?
Yeah, that's what I thought

rather than how much in oorders they have, an estimated shipping date would probably be more useful/appropriate. easic may have the chips, but means nothing if the units can't be assembled quickly enough.

[VolanicEruptor]

Pre-Order Terms: This is a pre-order. 28nm ASIC products are shipped according to placement in the order queue, and delivery may take 3 months or more after order.

Are we sure BFL is not starting a new company.  

The queue is small right now, VMC only has $80,000 of sales so far, based on a chip with a $1,000,000 NRE price tag!  So get in there and you won't be waiting 3 months!  
Would you rather be in an order queue that has $2,000,000 worth of orders in front of you?
Or one with $80,000?
Yeah, that's what I thought

rather than how much in oorders they have, an estimated shipping date would probably be more useful/appropriate. easic may have the chips, but means nothing if the units can't be assembled quickly enough.

Ken has a team of engineers who he is working with very hard every day.  I'm very confident that he can pull this off, especially with the small order queue he has right now.    First units are due to arrive in November, with sample chips being built onto boards in October. 

[trigeek]

Man, the September crop of shills around here are extra feisty.

[r3wt]

Man, the September crop of shills around here are extra feisty.

+1. and as far as these machines its been said a thousand times. its a risky investment. i'd probably do it anyway if i had the cash.

[DyslexicZombei]

wow, worst one yet, seems ken and all ken's bumboys will stop at nothing to delivery cutting edge mining equipment at reasonable costs
 

And he would have got away with it too!

...if it wasn't for those meddling kids.

Zoinks!

[miter_myles]

Appears that they have commenced operation VMC circlejerk on the forums as well..  

[iCEBREAKER]

Fast-Hash One Silver Edition Bitcoin Mining Machine. It's rackmountable. VMC announced a price drop. Allegedly shipping in November of this year.

Starts at 64GH/s for $1K up to 384GH/s for $2.5K.

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=21&controller=product#/fh_64ghs_module_a-total_64_gh_s_hashing

What's your take?

I have three questions:

• 1) How many gigahash per watt do these chips produce (the same or better than Bitfury)?
• 2) What is the refund policy?
• 3) Why is there no Minor Protection Plan included or offered as an option, unlike HashFast, Cointerra, and CryptX?

[DyslexicZombei]

Fast-Hash One Silver Edition Bitcoin Mining Machine. It's rackmountable. VMC announced a price drop. Allegedly shipping in November of this year.

Starts at 64GH/s for $1K up to 384GH/s for $2.5K.

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=21&controller=product#/fh_64ghs_module_a-total_64_gh_s_hashing

What's your take?

I have three questions:

• 1) How many gigahash per watt do these chips produce (the same or better than Bitfury)?
• 2) What is the refund policy?
• 3) Why is there no Minor Protection Plan included or offered as an option, unlike HashFast, Cointerra, and CryptX?

Great & valid points! I'm not sure why your questions are being deleted in the other thread.

Seems to me that you have valid questions even if you may be a competitor. I'd like some answers to these questions as well, & I have no horse in this particular race.

[VolanicEruptor]

Fast-Hash One Silver Edition Bitcoin Mining Machine. It's rackmountable. VMC announced a price drop. Allegedly shipping in November of this year.

Starts at 64GH/s for $1K up to 384GH/s for $2.5K.

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=21&controller=product#/fh_64ghs_module_a-total_64_gh_s_hashing

What's your take?

I have three questions:

• 1) How many gigahash per watt do these chips produce (the same or better than Bitfury)?
• 2) What is the refund policy?
• 3) Why is there no Minor Protection Plan included or offered as an option, unlike HashFast, Cointerra, and CryptX?

Great & valid points! I'm not sure why your questions are being deleted in the other thread.

Seems to me that you have valid questions even if you are a competitor. I'd like some answers to these questions as well, & I have no horse in this particular race.

He has repeatedly asked these questions before, and they have been answered successfully.  1/10 pages in the ACTM thread has him asking this, and it's annoying to repeat the answer over again.  
This is what trolls do.

[DyslexicZombei]

Sorry, I haven't seen these answers. Anyone care to give a link or a snippet of answers?

I perform Group Buys and help others perform Group Buys, so I need to know what's available, what are straight up scams, potential news that may affect delivery for ASIC mfgs., etc., etc..

I'm hardware/software neutral; I don't get involved in being a platform fanboi (ala XBOX vs. PS or MS vs. Linux). All I care about is whether hardware is either useful, if it'll be delivered on time, or if it can make me some moolah.

[kendog77]

VMC only accepts Bank wire, Check and BTC, which are all non-refundable payment options, so the buyer has zero recourse if they either deliver late or not at all.

If VMC screws up (and a late delivery is a serious screwup in the bitcoin mining world), your only chance of getting your money back is via a credit card chargeback, so I'll pass since they don't accept refundable payment options.

[Unacceptable]

VMC only accepts Bank wire, Check and BTC, which are all non-refundable payment options, so the buyer has zero recourse if they either deliver late or not at all.

If VMC screws up (and a late delivery is a serious screwup in the bitcoin mining world), your only chance of getting your money back is via a credit card chargeback, so I'll pass since they don't accept refundable payment options.

I'm with ya 

I would love to use BTC for payment,but alas these ASIC companies (& other buissness's) take advantage of the "no chargeback" aspect of BTC 

So if there is no CC or Paypal option I'll be looking elsewhere.It's a shame too,I would love to use BTC for ALL my purchases 

[VolanicEruptor]

Kenneth Slaughter is very open with his identity.  We have seen him, talked to him and taken pictures of him and his rented space (these can be seen in the earlier posts of the ActM thread).  He lives in the U.S. and if he were going to scam anybody then he has done a horrible job of hiding himself.  eASIC is legit, and this can be clearly seen with previous partnerships.  If he were to fail to deliver he would be must more easily liable than a group of guys from India or China, etc.. and is busy engineering every day, rather than blowing his cash on marketing (as you can see from his lack of advertising).  I am 100% confident that he is the hardest working one of the bunch, and if you want to get mining fast with 28nm technology, this is it.

[iCEBREAKER]

• 1) How many gigahash per watt do these chips produce (the same or better than Bitfury)?
• 2) What is the refund policy?
• 3) Why is there no Minor Protection Plan included or offered as an option, unlike HashFast, Cointerra, and CryptX?

Great & valid points! I'm not sure why your questions are being deleted in the other thread.

Seems to me that you have valid questions even if you are a competitor. I'd like some answers to these questions as well, & I have no horse in this particular race.

He has repeatedly asked these questions before, and they have been answered successfully.  1/10 pages in the ACTM thread has him asking this, and it's annoying to repeat the answer over again.  This is what trolls do.

Au contraire, ViagraErector - those questions have not been "answered successfully."

Cite:

There are definitely power estimates.  Check out the Genesis Block mining dashboard. 

I checked it and it seems strange. The Silver Unit 1 Module does 64Gh/s and consumes 100W, that's 1.56W/Gh; next we have the Silver Unit 2 Modules that does 384Gh/s??!! and consumes 350W, that's 0.91W/Gh; next we have Gold Unit 1 Modules that does 128Gh/s and consumes 300W???, that's 2.34W/Gh; next Gold Unit 6 Modules 784Gh/s for 800W, that's 1.04W/Gh; next Platinum Unit 1 Module for 256Gh/s for 400W, that's 1.56W/Gh (like the Silver Unit 1 Module) and last is Platinum Unit that does 1536Gh/s for 1400W, that's 0.91W/Gh(like the Silver Unit 2 Modules).

There seems to be some inconstancy on the power numbers. Care to explain me why since you seem to be the paid PR person?

And why should i trust them? Do they have better info than the manufacturer himself? Is there an official announcement about this?

This wattage variance is small and considered a rough estimate. Like I said, it won't make much of a difference until the network reaches at least 500 PH/S.  Using a bitcoin profit calculator will quickly show you this.  Right now you would be paying pennies per TH in electricity.

After reading the Securities thread i understand why are you avoiding this. People are asking there too and no answer from the boss himself. That raises a red flag for me.

Now on topic: Do you really consider 0.91W/Gh - 2.34W/Gh to be small and rough estimate? Ok now i see with who i am talking. No more questions yet

[zumzero]

VMC only accepts Bank wire, Check and BTC, which are all non-refundable payment options, so the buyer has zero recourse if they either deliver late or not at all.

If VMC screws up (and a late delivery is a serious screwup in the bitcoin mining world), your only chance of getting your money back is via a credit card chargeback, so I'll pass since they don't accept refundable payment options.

I'm with ya 

I would love to use BTC for payment,but alas these ASIC companies (& other buissness's) take advantage of the "no chargeback" aspect of BTC 

So if there is no CC or Paypal option I'll be looking elsewhere.It's a shame too,I would love to use BTC for ALL my purchases 

If this is your view you should not involve yourself with Bitcoin whatsoever.  Your view conflicts with Bitcoin fundamental principles.

[iCEBREAKER]

VMC only accepts Bank wire, Check and BTC, which are all non-refundable payment options, so the buyer has zero recourse if they either deliver late or not at all.

If VMC screws up (and a late delivery is a serious screwup in the bitcoin mining world), your only chance of getting your money back is via a credit card chargeback, so I'll pass since they don't accept refundable payment options.

I'm with ya 

I would love to use BTC for payment,but alas these ASIC companies (& other buissness's) take advantage of the "no chargeback" aspect of BTC 

So if there is no CC or Paypal option I'll be looking elsewhere.It's a shame too,I would love to use BTC for ALL my purchases 

If this is your view you should not involve yourself with Bitcoin whatsoever.  Your view conflicts with Bitcoin fundamental principles.

Escrow is entirely within "Bitcoin fundamental principles."

There is no escrow option for VMC hardware.

That is not acceptable, especially since there isn't even a good guesstimate of gigahash/watt power usage, much less a Miner Protection Plan (unlike HashFast/Cointerra/CryptX).

[VolanicEruptor]

My good friend icebreaker,
Watts/GH are a rough estimate, and won't matter anyway until the network hash rate is 500PH/S.  Electricity costs are pointless to talk about at this point in the game, and for many months to come, especially with this high-end technology from eASIC.  We have explained this to you numerous times, and this why we choose to ignore you -- NOT because we can't answer it.  We have also explained to you the flaws of a "miner protection plan" and how it is actually a red flag.  I am going to start making automated responses to your repeated questions..  

[iCEBREAKER]

After reading the Securities thread i understand why are you avoiding this. People are asking there too and no answer from the boss himself. That raises a red flag for me.

Now on topic: Do you really consider 0.91W/Gh - 2.34W/Gh to be small and rough estimate? Ok now i see with who i am talking. No more questions

Watts/GH are a rough estimate, and won't matter anyway until the network hash rate is 500PH/S.  Electricity costs are pointless to talk about at this point in the game, and for many months to come, especially with this high-end technology from eASIC.  We have explained this to you numerous times, and this why we choose to ignore you -- NOT because we can't answer it.  We have also explained to you the flaws of a "miner protection plan" and how it is actually a red flag.  I am going to start making automated responses to your repeated questions..  

IOW, we shouldn't worry our silly little heads with nonsense about "pointless" things like gigahash per watt, exploding difficulty, and guaranteed ROI?

You can do better than that, my esteemed old chum!   

[kendog77]

VMC only accepts Bank wire, Check and BTC, which are all non-refundable payment options, so the buyer has zero recourse if they either deliver late or not at all.

If VMC screws up (and a late delivery is a serious screwup in the bitcoin mining world), your only chance of getting your money back is via a credit card chargeback, so I'll pass since they don't accept refundable payment options.

I'm with ya 

I would love to use BTC for payment,but alas these ASIC companies (& other buissness's) take advantage of the "no chargeback" aspect of BTC 

So if there is no CC or Paypal option I'll be looking elsewhere.It's a shame too,I would love to use BTC for ALL my purchases 

If this is your view you should not involve yourself with Bitcoin whatsoever.  Your view conflicts with Bitcoin fundamental principles.

I completely disagree. You can substitute "fiat cash" for "BTC" above and the arguments I make would be exactly the same. Paypal could start accepting Bitcoin tomorrow and offer buyer protection for purchases made with BTC.

[creativex]

Watts/GH are a rough estimate, and won't matter anyway until the network hash rate is 500PH/S.  Electricity costs are pointless to talk about at this point in the game, and for many months to come, especially with this high-end technology from eASIC.  We have explained this to you numerous times, and this why we choose to ignore you -- NOT because we can't answer it.  We have also explained to you the flaws of a "miner protection plan" and how it is actually a red flag.  I am going to start making automated responses to your repeated questions..  

Don't care about the lack of a gimmicky mpp, but you can't possibly be serious about efficiency numbers. Someone paying for VMC equipment would still have to budget fiat for power consumption. The difference between efficient gear and inefficient gear could easily be the difference between a positive ROI and a loss for many with high electrical costs.

[VolanicEruptor]

Watts/GH are a rough estimate, and won't matter anyway until the network hash rate is 500PH/S.  Electricity costs are pointless to talk about at this point in the game, and for many months to come, especially with this high-end technology from eASIC.  We have explained this to you numerous times, and this why we choose to ignore you -- NOT because we can't answer it.  We have also explained to you the flaws of a "miner protection plan" and how it is actually a red flag.  I am going to start making automated responses to your repeated questions..  

Don't care about the lack of a gimmicky mpp, but you can't possibly be serious about efficiency numbers. Someone paying for VMC equipment would still have to budget fiat for power consumption. The difference between efficient gear and inefficient gear could easily be the difference between a positive ROI and a loss for many with high electrical costs.

Power consumption is a big deal when your mining equipment from a year ago is still struggling hard to make a few satoshis, but at this point the electricity costs are far smaller than profit gained through mining.  ASICMINER USBs I would start worrying about right now, but not 28nm technology with less than 2W/GH.   

[VolanicEruptor]

to elaborate on my post to creativex, please turn your page to http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

with difficulty currently at 112,000,000, 1GH/S at 1W/GH is less than a penny of electricity needed to produce 59 cents worth of profit per 24 hours.

lets crank that up now to 1,112,000,000 (that's a network hashrate of 10PH/S).. your electricity costs are still less than 5% of your profit if you're running 2W/GH.


As you can see, 1W/GH vs 2W/GH isn't going to matter at all until we see phenomenal network hash rates of hundreds of PH/S

icebreaker keeps claiming that 1W/GH vs 1.5W/GH is important, and this is just plain trolling as it does not make much financial sense at all.

I would also like to add that eASIC will be constantly fine tuning the watts/GH, so it's hard to believe that a leading ASIC designer is not going to have a competitive power efficiency in their chip design.

[RoadStress]

My good friend icebreaker,
Watts/GH are a rough estimate, and won't matter anyway until the network hash rate is 500PH/S.  Electricity costs are pointless to talk about at this point in the game, and for many months to come, especially with this high-end technology from eASIC.  We have explained this to you numerous times, and this why we choose to ignore you -- NOT because we can't answer it.  We have also explained to you the flaws of a "miner protection plan" and how it is actually a red flag.  I am going to start making automated responses to your repeated questions..  

I will just quote this for posterity!

[miter_myles]

Why must you boldface a majority of all your replies??  Is that to signify something important?  It is becoming more and more evident that there is a massive shareholder circle jerk occurring here..

[creativex]

to elaborate on my post to creativex, please turn your page to http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

with difficulty currently at 112,000,000, 1GH/S at 1W/GH is less than a penny of electricity needed to produce 59 cents worth of profit per 24 hours.

lets crank that up now to 1,112,000,000 (that's a network hashrate of 10PH/S).. your electricity costs are still less than 5% of your profit if you're running 2W/GH.


As you can see, 1W/GH vs 2W/GH isn't going to matter at all until we see phenomenal network hash rates of hundreds of PH/S

icebreaker keeps claiming that 1W/GH vs 1.5W/GH is important, and this is just plain trolling as it does not make much financial sense at all.

I would also like to add that eASIC will be constantly fine tuning the watts/GH, so it's hard to believe that a leading ASIC designer is not going to have a competitive power efficiency in their chip design.

...still waiting for the punchline...

Holy crap man. Do you even lift mine? Small miners that struggle to scrape together enough BTC to purchase a rig are surely going to care if their monthly power bill is going to increase by 100% or 200% regardless of how many PH it is until they're actually losing fiat to the power company. To say nothing of the fact that the heat has to be dealt with and mining gear that uses more power...PRODUCES MORE HEAT. Not everyone is lighting their cigars with $100 bills bud. Equipment that uses more power can incur unforeseen expenses. Visits from the electrician and/or the heating and cooling guy as well.

[VolanicEruptor]

I have mined quite a bit actually, and have not experienced the problems you are describing.  They are exaggerated.  Difficulty is literally a hundred times more of a culprit of profit loss than electricity is, especially in the first run to 100% ROI  Punch some numbers in on that calculator and you will see that.

[creativex]

I have mined quite a bit actually, and have not experienced the problems you are describing.  They are exaggerated.  Difficulty is literally a hundred times more of a culprit of profit loss than electricity is.  Punch some numbers in on that calculator and you will see that.

Why would I need a calculator? I run a mining company, I have gear running 24/7 and the electricity bills to prove it. The difference between 1w/Gh/s and 2w/Gh/s can make a huge difference in potential returns depending on price/kWh. You sound like somebody speaking about a topic for which you have little practical experience. Never mind that bitfury has gear out now that uses under 1w/Gh/s and you're hawking wares that won't even be around until December.  

[markm]

I walked through the order process and once I got to shipping it told me my order should arrive 20th to 23rd of december.

So from that it seems like any talk about novermber is long out of date by now.

-MarkM-

[VolanicEruptor]

I have mined quite a bit actually, and have not experienced the problems you are describing.  They are exaggerated.  Difficulty is literally a hundred times more of a culprit of profit loss than electricity is.  Punch some numbers in on that calculator and you will see that.

Why would I need a calculator? I run a mining company, I have gear running 24/7 and the electricity bills to prove it. The difference between 1w/Gh/s and 2w/Gh/s can make a huge difference in potential returns depending on price/kWh. You sound like somebody speaking about a topic for which you have little practical experience. Never mind that bitfury has gear out now that uses under 1w/Gh/s and you're hawking wares that won't even be around until December.  

I can see your hardware is pretty ancient... no offense, but in BTCland you're considered a dinosaur:
"(9)Avalon ASICs(30 hashing modules total), (1)BFL Minirig SC, (4)BFL Single SCs, (2)Radeon 7770, (2)Radeon 6770"
those BFL rigs are costing you $50/GH, I can't even imagine what those Radeon boards are doing to your house.  No fires yet?  

Yes, you would know a lot about heat wouldn't you!  

Once these Fast Hash machines are as old as Radeon 6770's, we'll start comparing power efficiencies with competitors.

Fact is, electricity costs don't matter until you're struggling to crank out a few satoshis with those video cards of yours.  By this time you have already made your money, and you can toss it out.

I'll say this again, we don't even know exact GH/W at this point, but we're dealing with eASIC here.  They are a LEADING semiconductor company so why wouldn't they make their efficiency competitive?  

[VolanicEruptor]

I walked through the order process and once I got to shipping it told me my order should arrive 20th to 23rd of december.

So from that it seems like any talk about novermber is long out of date by now.

-MarkM-

You are safe with starting in December, even early 2014.  These are built to be profitable for quite awhile, especially if you go with the $6/GH machines.  There is no way Cointerra will be delivering on time, with that large of an order queue. VMC will kill the competition.  Also, see my recent posts on why these "protection plans" are huge red flags.  They know they're going pull a BFL on all of us so they're preparing the damage control already.

[RoadStress]

Once these Fast Hash machines are as old as Radeon 6770's, we'll start comparing power efficiencies with competitors.

Fact is, electricity costs don't matter until you're struggling to crank out a few satoshis with those video cards of yours.  By this time you have already made your money, and you can toss it out.

I'll say this again, we don't even know exact GH/W at this point, but we're dealing with eASIC here.  They are a LEADING semiconductor company so why wouldn't they make their efficiency competitive?  

I'm very amazed that "american marketing" still works...

[markm]

Well I guess come the 20th to 25th or so of december I'll check back to see if same day shipping is available yet and if so consider ordering.

-MarkM-

[miter_myles]

Well I guess come the 20th to 25th or so of december I'll check back to see if same day shipping is available yet and if so consider ordering.

-MarkM-

Wise decision.. these VMC pre-order pump clowns are amusing..

If any company had a highly profitable Bitcoin miner on hand, they would never sell it to you.  Your best bet is a preorder because your funds are going directly to the actual manufacturing of the hardware, which belongs to you as soon as its put together.  There is a much larger markup when a company has to invest their own money for inventory.  In this case however, you have directly fueled your own production for the maximum profit potential.

This guy is a riot.. 

[markm]

Yeah he basically seems to be saying the company is not actually in the mining-hardware business, they are just selling a few small pieces of their private farm at exorbitant prices to get their farm R&D and NRE paid then will be yet another private farm driving us all out of business with a farm we (aka a bunch of suckers) paid the R&D/NRE for.

-MarkM-

[WikileaksDude]

Well I guess come the 20th to 25th or so of december I'll check back to see if same day shipping is available yet and if so consider ordering.

-MarkM-

Consider it a christmas present lol

Yeah he basically seems to be saying the company is not actually in the mining-hardware business, they are just selling a few small pieces of their private farm at exorbitant prices to get their farm R&D and NRE paid then will be yet another private farm driving us all out of business with a farm we (aka a bunch of suckers) paid the R&D/NRE for.

-MarkM-

NRE is already paid. ~1m $ . but its already paid.

VMC sells mining equipment
ActM mines bitcoins

2 different things.

[wrenchmonkey]

Come see me when you have a product to ship. 

[markm]

If the up front costs are already paid why the pre-orders then?

The guy was saying earlier that no company is ever going to sell mining rigs for any less than the amount of coins they will ever mine, because it makes no sense to sell the rigs instead of mining with them.

So basically parting with any rigs is just a side-scam to help defray the cost of the company's private mining centres. Which, considering they could host their miners in places with $0.02 per KWH electricity, also means it makes no sense to sell them if mining with them at $0.02 per KWH power would rake in more money.

In short they are saying it makes no sense to be in the mining hardware business, the only business that makes sense is the actual mining business, and that only if you design and have-foundried your own chips.

I guess the big problem bitcoin mining has compared to gold etc mining is the lack of a stake. If miners needed a stake - a place to actually mine, kind of thing - then it could make sense to be in the mining hardware business because you could be in that busienss without having to own any actual gold-mines like the actual miners - of gold etc - have to do.

So maybe a new kind of stake-based mining would be a good innovation for a coin: one where to do mining at all you have to have a stake, so that hardware-only companies will no longer consider merely supplying hardware to "not make sense" compared to actually mining.

-MarkM-

[creativex]

I can see your hardware is pretty ancient...<snip>

ROFL

Whatever shred of credibility you had left just went buh bye. ActM is hashing with Avalons DOOFUS. They're doing so because their own vaporware won't be around for months.

I think we're done here...keep your overpriced inefficient vaporware.

[VolanicEruptor]

I can see your hardware is pretty ancient...<snip>

ROFL

Whatever shred of credibility you had left just went buh bye. ActM is hashing with Avalons DOOFUS. They're doing so because their own vaporware won't be around for months.

I think we're done here...keep your overpriced inefficient vaporware.

Overpriced at $6/GH?? Are you nuts?  You're just trolling, which is very unprofessional since you're supposed to represent your company.  Where's your manners?  You are still mining with video cards and BFL singles, not just avalons.. so I can see why you're complaining about power efficiency. 

[creativex]

I can see your hardware is pretty ancient...<snip>

ROFL

Whatever shred of credibility you had left just went buh bye. ActM is hashing with Avalons DOOFUS. They're doing so because their own vaporware won't be around for months.

I think we're done here...keep your overpriced inefficient vaporware.

You are still mining with video cards and BFL singles, not just avalons.. so I can see why you're complaining about power efficiency.

Presumably you've heard of scrypt by now? ...you are aware that single sc's are more efficient than ActM's fleet of (6)Avalons correct?

You're completely out of your element here aren't you VE?

[iCEBREAKER]

If the up front costs are already paid why the pre-orders then?

The guy was saying earlier that no company is ever going to sell mining rigs for any less than the amount of coins they will ever mine, because it makes no sense to sell the rigs instead of mining with them.

So basically parting with any rigs is just a side-scam to help defray the cost of the company's private mining centres. Which, considering they could host their miners in places with $0.02 per KWH electricity, also means it makes no sense to sell them if mining with them at $0.02 per KWH power would rake in more money.

In short they are saying it makes no sense to be in the mining hardware business, the only business that makes sense is the actual mining business, and that only if you design and have-foundried your own chips.

I guess the big problem bitcoin mining has compared to gold etc mining is the lack of a stake. If miners needed a stake - a place to actually mine, kind of thing - then it could make sense to be in the mining hardware business because you could be in that busienss without having to own any actual gold-mines like the actual miners - of gold etc - have to do.

So maybe a new kind of stake-based mining would be a good innovation for a coin: one where to do mining at all you have to have a stake, so that hardware-only companies will no longer consider merely supplying hardware to "not make sense" compared to actually mining.

-MarkM-

   Nice catch realizing energy costs will dominate BTC mining, as they do in gold, once we reach tech equilibrium.

Another astute observation is asking 'why the pre-orders if NRE is paid?'

It takes a metric shit-ton of PCB to house the bazillion slow-ass chips ACTM made, and that's so expensive it makes NRE look cheap.

ACTM may soon sell more shares to cover the $2-$3 million expense of assembling/testing/deploying hundreds of thousands of chips onto tens of thousands of boards.

I expect this to happen because the paltry pre-orders don't even come close to enough.

[gorgorom]

So when are these due? I want to pre-order but don'tr want to wait forever...

[Unacceptable]

So when are these due? I want to pre-order but don'tr want to wait forever...

Uh.........it is December,right

"Limited Availability on these units (Shipping Starts November 2013)"

"ESTIMATED DELIVERY DATE WILL BE DISPLAYED UPON CHECKOUT"

Nevermind,found this:

"Availability date: 2013-12-31 "  

Having not seen any "News",not sure what to think

[almwaysa]

My order is dated at 24-7-2013
Still there are no news of shipping.
My friend ordered from KNC and he already at 200% profits

[auto2nr1]

My order is dated at 24-7-2013
Still there are no news of shipping.
My friend ordered from KNC and he already at 200% profits

What is your Order# and have you contacted VMC in regards to a shipping date? Please contact them and see where you are in the order queue. Thanks.