[Coincraft or Minion 28nm] - Meeting for Group Buy Chip to Miner (DIY: THE WASP)

[bobsag3]

I vote for skype or google hangout, or I can host us a TS3/Vent/Mumble server.

[Bicknellski]

... we should form a group of interested person ... get a communication plattform like IRC ... and move this project forward ... .-)

Yes seems pretty clear we have enough people to move this forward.

[Xian01]

Following with interest  

 On a related note, I was really sad the day I found out that the singer in your Avatar passed away.

 RIP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eduard_Khil

[savetree]

First thing we should do is get the funds and buy the chips...

[cad_cdn]

another crazy Canuck interested 

[mobile]

I'm intrigued, watching this....

[nachius]

First thing we should do is get the funds and buy the chips...

I would suggest someone strong with math (probability and statistics as well as economics background possibly) and a little time on their hands work with BPMC to evaluate the nano and red fury production times and costs.  Also get more hard date on shipping of the chips etc.  As I mentioned earlier if these devices can't be produced and ready to ship prior to being out of the realm of ROI the original process of production would need to be fixed prior to sinking money into the chips with the expectation of losing money right up front.

Agreements with vendors both for product and labor, time frames, expectations from all companies involved and recourse if they are not able to deliver within expected time frame to provide at least some assurance for everyone involved.  Everyone is so quick trying to stay ahead of the rat race and be either first to market or get new technology is overlooking basic business functions that can be put in place for at least some degree of protection.  Nothing is fool proof, but decisions need to be based on data and that data should lead to a streamlined process.  A streamlined process with repeatable effect will lead to "know" results.

Vendor negotiation can happen up front negotiate a rate on the chips with a x day window for refund if they don't deliver or % refund declining over period of time.  Same for PCBs etc.   From there you need to know your total time to complete a product if you had all the parts on hand.  You can then work a schedule based on inventory and shipping ques to work on say PCBs for 2 weeks while you wait on chips to arrive during week 3 week 3 is chips and programming week 4 testing week 5 ship.  Fortunately or Unfortunately part of my IT background includes Lean Six Sigma training and certification and I just feel the group that will stay around will not be the one first to market, but the one able to consistently deliver products including new technology when they say they will with market data knowing when they have to have the product out to back it up to maintain profit.  It requires a LOT of work, but this community has a lot of people than can carry out this task! 

[Bicknellski]

Agreed on the math end and really being strict on the production requirements if we use a SINGLE production site for everyone involved... good to have as best costing and projections as possible before moving forward with funding. Going from design to PCB prototype can be done with moderate effort and oversight but having things vetted out first is nice to take the worry out. The plan is not to release anything to the wider DIY community until everything is working properly right up to and including the firmware / drivers.

Note this is an open group buy not restricted to BPMC members only I just wanted to push the DIY idea forward with The Wasp project so that it is really for the whole community, or those interested in supporting it at least, sort of like how the DIY for the Avalon started. Potentially others may break off to do their own version of the A1 Asics once everything is released and working. Keep that in mind I can give you a rough guesstimates on BF1s that BPMC from my own research on the production costs in Jakarta as I just received a quote for production of BF1s yesterday. Unfortunately the latest drop in Rupiah ate into the margin somewhat so component prices spiked a bit in the last two months so I am more interested in moving towards The Wasp as I see great potential especially with the 20 to 40 gh/s range per chip.

Internally though, given what I have seen with the Klondike Nano and the RedFury, you can overcome a lot of misery simply by making sure you have the money ready to cover chips and production and keep it safe if refunds are necessary. I personally had to handle 780 BTC twice in our failed K1 Nano project and that was nerve racking let me tell you. 80K is not fun to handle in digital currency.

In terms of moving forward though please contact me via PM or email with a short blurb about yourself and your skills sets and interesting in this project and how you might help. We are going to have an online discussion (text) via gtalk this weekend. I will get everyone in on the chat just provide me your gmail.

Thinking Saturday afternoon US Eastern Standard Time or Sunday morning Eastern Standard Time?

[bobsag3]

Agreed on the math end and really being strict on the production requirements if we use a SINGLE production site for everyone involved... good to have as best costing and projections as possible before moving forward with funding. Going from design to PCB prototype can be done with moderate effort and oversight but having things vetted out first is nice to take the worry out. The plan is not to release anything to the wider DIY community until everything is working properly right up to and including the firmware / drivers.

Note this is an open group buy not restricted to BPMC members only I just wanted to push the DIY idea forward with The Wasp project so that it is really for the whole community, or those interested in supporting it at least, sort of like how the DIY for the Avalon started. Potentially others my break off to do their own version of the A1 Asics once everything is released and working. Keep that in mind I can give you a rough guesstimates on BF1s that BPMC from my own research on the production costs in Jakarta as I just received a quote for production of BF1s yesterday. Unfortunately the latest drop in Rupiah ate into the margin somewhat so component prices spiked a bit in the last two months so I am more interested in moving towards The Wasp as I see great potential especially with the 20 to 40 gh/s range per chip.

Internally though, given what I have seen with the Klondike Nano and the RedFury, you can overcome a lot of misery simply by making sure you have the money ready to cover chips and production and keep it safe if refunds are necessary. I personally had to handle 780 BTC twice in our failed K1 Nano project and that was nerve racking let me tell you. 80K is not fun to handle in digital currency.

In terms of moving forward though please contact me via PM or email with a short blurb about yourself and your skills sets and interesting in this project and how you might help. We are going to have an online discussion (text) via gtalk this weekend. I will get everyone in on the chat just provide me your gmail.

Thinking Saturday afternoon US Eastern Standard Time or Sunday morning Eastern Standard Time?

Im on.... a lot more than I should be.
minerhosting@gmail.com

[Bicknellski]

Im on.... a lot more than I should be.
minerhosting@gmail.com

Aye to that. Real world always infringing on my play time here as well.

[Bicknellski]

The Wasp 1st Planning Meeting:

Saturday, 21st of September

11:30 PM EST (USA)
8:30 PM MTN (USA)
9:30 AM WIB (INDONESIA) Sunday 22nd.

Drop me a PM and email so I can add you to the Google Hangout we created.

[nachius]

The Wasp 1st Planning Meeting:

11:30 PM EST (USA)
8:30 PM MTN (USA)

Drop me a PM and email so I can add you to the Google Hangout we created.

Which date is this for?

[Bicknellski]

My Apologies. Saturday Night... 21st September.

[Bicknellski]

Meeting Agenda

Greetings and Salutation

+ Those interested in working through this long multiple month group buy should provide a short profile to everyone at the meeting.
+ We will cover the key positions from design of the board, software, and fabrication as well as community PR with The Wasp members.

The Wasp

+ What direction is this project going to take?
+ Which chip?
+ How will it be powered etc and what sort of upcycling will this miner be capable of when complete?
+ A very rough timeline from design to prototype and shipping finished units will be addressed?

Financials

+ What is the production price point, ROI required when it is delivered on time and late?
+ We need to have a relatively accurate estimate that will bind the design to the reality so we need rough estimates now and provide them at the meeting.
+ What sort of membership numbers do we need?
+ What sort of initial investment is required to get us going on this project in the coming weeks?

Timeline

+ What are the milestones and when do they need to be met?

Control of the BOM / Gerbers

+ Who has access to the sensitive project documents and what are agreed parameters for sharing this collective work?
+ We do not want one member to simply hijack this project and then produce units without agreement so we need to determine strict controls over the work product.

(Unfortunately I have learned, very recently, the hard way not everyone has the groups interest at heart during these longer term development projects and you need to SPELL this clause out clearly right at the beginning.)

---------------

This is off the top of my head. Feel free to add or subtract from the agenda. I volunteer to keep records as secretary for this meeting.

[itod]

For us who wouldn't be able to attend to this hangout please provide the recording if possible. Thanks.

[cad_cdn]

+1
(meaning because we cannot attend, means we anxiously await the decisions made and plans forged) 

For us who wouldn't be able to attend to this hangout please provide the recording if possible. Thanks.

[Bicknellski]

For us who wouldn't be able to attend to this hangout please provide the recording if possible. Thanks.

I will do a redacted minutes for all and post it here. Whatever "super top secret" we can't leak stuff will be pulled... but I think people want to hear more about the project  planning, so for sure I will get that up as soon as possible.

We will try and have different times so other can make the next meeting... if this time and day was a bit much.

[Bicknellski]

Blackarrow anyone?

Code:

This is an Application Specific Integrated Circuit (ASIC) designed to mine Bitcoins only. It is not useful for anything else.
This product is intended for OEM manufacturers and should not be purchased by individuals that have no technical expertise 
on how to design the hardware and software to use this ASIC. Apart from the Datasheet that describes very 
technical information on how to use it, no other technical support will be offered by Black Arrow free of charge.

All pre-orders are guaranteed to be protected against any price decrease. If at any time, during the pre-order period, 
we drop the price under what you have already paid, you will be compensated by receiving more ASICs. 
Example: If you have purchased an ASIC with 25% discount and we offer later 40% discount, your order will be 
recalculated at 40% discount and you will receive more ASICs. Then, if we offer later only 10% discount you will 
still get order as if you've ordered at 40% discount.

Guaranteed: 64GHash/second @ TT corner (Typical - Typical).

Preliminary specifications:

Node process: 28nm High Performance Process
Package: High Performance Flip Chip BGA
Frequency: 1.6 GHz
Voltage: 0.85V
Efficiency (including leakage): less than 0.5 W/Ghash/second

This ASIC supports internal commands for over-clocking and under-clocking.

It has been designed to be:

Over-clocked with around 20%. Increasing the voltage might be required.
If voltage is increased, the efficiency will drop.
Under-clocked to obtain better efficiency you can drop the voltage. 
If the voltage is dropped the clock frequency will have to be dropped resulting in slower hashing speeds.

Note: the preliminary specifications are currently reported by our design tools. 
They have not yet been proven in a laboratory and might be subject to change, although we do not expect it to vary much.

Group buys: Group buys are not permitted. We will cancel any order that we discover that is a group buy 
and will refund the payment minus 10% that we will charge for our time wasted in this matter.
By placing an order for this item you agree with the above.

Note we are posted in the group buy section but we are not a group buy per se we are a B2B purchaser.

[cad_cdn]

their pricing seems ok, but feb release is disappointing

Blackarrow anyone?

[Bicknellski]

Both chips... A1 to Minion... to...


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Meeting countdown clock. If you want to get in on it PM me your email and I can add you to the Google Hangout.


Timer removed. End time: 2013-09-22+2:30:00UTC