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Author Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]  (Read 770348 times)
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zefyr0s
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January 10, 2014, 06:28:27 AM
 #7281

Ugh. Failing to meet expectations is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing. This is not to say that there is not intentional wrongdoing occurring, just there is no evidence to support an argument in either direction. This absence of information however is the biggest problem I currently see with Active and certainly agree that we should have information be presented much more clearly. Sure, if it is not possible to present such information then explain why. If the explanation fits the realm of plausible occurrence, cool; otherwise we certainly need more fluid conversation with development.
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January 10, 2014, 08:48:02 AM
 #7282

Ugh. Failing to meet expectations is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing. This is not to say that there is not intentional wrongdoing occurring, just there is no evidence to support an argument in either direction. This absence of information however is the biggest problem I currently see with Active and certainly agree that we should have information be presented much more clearly. Sure, if it is not possible to present such information then explain why. If the explanation fits the realm of plausible occurrence, cool; otherwise we certainly need more fluid conversation with development.

I do not believe Ken has done any wrongdoing, it's possible all the contradictions are because events played out that way. but the silence and darkness is now insufferable.

I just want the truth at this point.
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January 10, 2014, 09:09:31 AM
 #7283

do we even have eASIC chips?

Uhm no, we don't. He has been pretty clear about that (the RTL stuff). The situation is actually much, much worse than I thought.
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January 10, 2014, 09:35:38 AM
 #7284

do we even have eASIC chips?

Uhm no, we don't. He has been pretty clear about that (the RTL stuff). The situation is actually much, much worse than I thought.

Due to huge gaps in my knowledge I am unsure what some of the terms mean.

RTL is the design before an ASIC gets commissioned correct? So if we have to get another RTL that means the ASIC can't exist at all right?

However Ken has said that we are not respining the chip, so I assumed that mean that the chips sort of exist?

I am confused about how we don't need to respin (whatever that means) but we are still working on RTL.
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January 10, 2014, 09:43:50 AM
 #7285

RTL is the design before an ASIC gets commissioned correct? So if we have to get another RTL that means the ASIC can't exist at all right?

I ain't no chip designer either, but from what I googled, RTL is a high-level description of what the chips is supposed to do. It gets converted to low-level descriptions and those into masks from which the chips are made.

Ken's statement imo indicates that he had an RTL description but it was faulty or underperforming so he finally hired some expert to help him out. What I take from this is that we had sample chips but they were no good and now the design has to be re-cast into silicon.

Someone with more knowledge? Mabs?
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January 10, 2014, 10:00:50 AM
 #7286

RTL is the design before an ASIC gets commissioned correct? So if we have to get another RTL that means the ASIC can't exist at all right?

I ain't no chip designer either, but from what I googled, RTL is a high-level description of what the chips is supposed to do. It gets converted to low-level descriptions and those into masks from which the chips are made.

Ken's statement imo indicates that he had an RTL description but it was faulty or underperforming so he finally hired some expert to help him out. What I take from this is that we had sample chips but they were no good and now the design has to be re-cast into silicon.

Someone with more knowledge? Mabs?

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)
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January 10, 2014, 10:03:36 AM
 #7287

If ken said units had been delivered to customers, I think it's fair to say full evidence needs to be provided and a full explanation of what has gone wrong since then. You can't claim delivery and then say something obscure about rtl code (which was Ken's task?) and engineering (pcb). Similarly about the extra hashing.

I'm concerned that things went wrong in October or November and that it was then handled badly. At that point I seems to remember seeing irc logs posted showing a very stressed Ken. I have no reason to think this was anything other than failures internally and/or at outsourcers, but one must manage those failures professionally.

One must certainly not mislead customers or investors over the following months.

Ken, I know you have always meant well but this needs an open and frank explanation, very quickly indeed. Both shareholders and buyers have reason to be angry.

For everyone else, Ken is really poor at communication and a lot of this may be down to that. I always found him much better voice than in any written means. I know two posters here are trying to meet/chat to him.
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January 10, 2014, 10:12:28 AM
 #7288

If ken said units had been delivered to customers, I think it's fair to say full evidence needs to be provided and a full explanation of what has gone wrong since then. You can't claim delivery and then say something obscure about rtl code (which was Ken's task?) and engineering (pcb). Similarly about the extra hashing.

I'm concerned that things went wrong in October or November and that it was then handled badly. At that point I seems to remember seeing irc logs posted showing a very stressed Ken. I have no reason to think this was anything other than failures internally and/or at outsourcers, but one must manage those failures professionally.

One must certainly not mislead customers or investors over the following months.

Ken, I know you have always meant well but this needs an open and frank explanation, very quickly indeed. Both shareholders and buyers have reason to be angry.

For everyone else, Ken is really poor at communication and a lot of this may be down to that. I always found him much better voice than in any written means. I know two posters here are trying to meet/chat to him.

Hey ffssixtynine, what does "respining" mean in context of the eASIC chips?
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January 10, 2014, 10:31:49 AM
 #7289

Hey ffssixtynine, what does "respining" mean in context of the eASIC chips?

DTS, you talking about this?

Quote
to make sure that when we spin up our chip it will work

If yes, then I'd say it is not a technical term but means "when we ramp up production of our chip..."
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January 10, 2014, 10:39:19 AM
 #7290

Hey ffssixtynine, what does "respining" mean in context of the eASIC chips?

DTS, you talking about this?

Quote
to make sure that when we spin up our chip it will work

If yes, then I'd say it is not a technical term but means "when we ramp up production of our chip..."

Yeah ok that makes a lot of sense.

So Ken is still getting the final ASIC design complete before eASIC starts producing for us.

EDIT: Which could mean we get the next prototype by early February?
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January 10, 2014, 10:57:31 AM
 #7291

EDIT: Which could mean we get the next prototype by early February?

Of course Ken has given us no information how the RTL redesign is going or when he onboarded the new ASIC engineers. Or which costs this failed attempt to do it all alone incurred. Or how many botched chips had been delivered.
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January 10, 2014, 12:09:46 PM
 #7292

Weekly Update: 1/8/13

Ken doesn't even know what day or even year it is. At least he got the month right though.  Cheesy
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January 10, 2014, 01:19:09 PM
 #7293

Ugh. Failing to meet expectations is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing...

But failing to meet expectations by such a spectacular and dramatic margin sure is.
Either that, or new laws like Felonious Incompetence and Criminal Stupidity have to be passed.
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January 10, 2014, 02:32:05 PM
 #7294

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6

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January 10, 2014, 02:58:08 PM
 #7295

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

It is my line of thinking that home mining will become some what irrelevant, with huge corporate farms becoming more common.
We can already see it happening with huge farms such as Cloudhashing in Iceland and the pictures of ASICMINER recently released.
Economies of scale and all that jazz.

Maybe we are all being far to harsh and looking at the small picture. Ken has pointed out a few times his product is more industrial that that of a home miner.

This however does not mean that Ken should be much more transparent with the shareholders and customers.

What ever happens I will be holding - I have no choice either way.
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January 10, 2014, 03:07:19 PM
 #7296

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

If 500TH/sec chips are B&D hand drills, the 16TH/sec chip that ken has promised is... Huh
It also pays to remember the growing difficulty.  A B&D hand drill delivered today is as effective as the all-pro CNC delivered tomorrow.
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January 10, 2014, 03:42:40 PM
 #7297

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

If 500TH/sec chips are B&D hand drills, the 16TH/sec chip that ken has promised is... Huh
It also pays to remember the growing difficulty.  A B&D hand drill delivered today is as effective as the all-pro CNC delivered tomorrow.

I wish we had 16TH/s chips

I think you mean 500GH/s and 16GH/s

But your point remains. Our efficiency to deploy is diminishing every single day. Soon we are going to look like the dickhead who thinks he can 'build the biggest bitcoin mine in the world' by only using USB miners while the rest of the world is pushing out chips hundreds of times as fast as ours....
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January 10, 2014, 03:46:06 PM
 #7298

If there are $6M in pre-orders for these machines that likely will never work, then can someone point me toward the thread where the pre-order customers are asking questions?
It is strange I do not see it.   Because all those people are in line to get their money back before any investor does (if they exist).


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January 10, 2014, 03:54:02 PM
 #7299

...
I think you mean 500GH/s and 16GH/s
...

One day I'll learn how to math, and then... look out, world! Cheesy
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January 10, 2014, 04:02:45 PM
 #7300

Sure, investors are free to request a refund and I doubt Ken will deny this (I don't really know as it hasn't happened yet.) But they also run the risk of having to get back in at the end of the line when evidence of production does actually come out.
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