[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[drawingthesun]

If ken said units had been delivered to customers, I think it's fair to say full evidence needs to be provided and a full explanation of what has gone wrong since then. You can't claim delivery and then say something obscure about rtl code (which was Ken's task?) and engineering (pcb). Similarly about the extra hashing.

I'm concerned that things went wrong in October or November and that it was then handled badly. At that point I seems to remember seeing irc logs posted showing a very stressed Ken. I have no reason to think this was anything other than failures internally and/or at outsourcers, but one must manage those failures professionally.

One must certainly not mislead customers or investors over the following months.

Ken, I know you have always meant well but this needs an open and frank explanation, very quickly indeed. Both shareholders and buyers have reason to be angry.

For everyone else, Ken is really poor at communication and a lot of this may be down to that. I always found him much better voice than in any written means. I know two posters here are trying to meet/chat to him.

Hey ffssixtynine, what does "respining" mean in context of the eASIC chips?

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[iSnow]

Hey ffssixtynine, what does "respining" mean in context of the eASIC chips?

DTS, you talking about this?

to make sure that when we spin up our chip it will work

If yes, then I'd say it is not a technical term but means "when we ramp up production of our chip..."

[drawingthesun]

Hey ffssixtynine, what does "respining" mean in context of the eASIC chips?

DTS, you talking about this?

to make sure that when we spin up our chip it will work

If yes, then I'd say it is not a technical term but means "when we ramp up production of our chip..."

Yeah ok that makes a lot of sense.

So Ken is still getting the final ASIC design complete before eASIC starts producing for us.

EDIT: Which could mean we get the next prototype by early February?

[iSnow]

EDIT: Which could mean we get the next prototype by early February?

Of course Ken has given us no information how the RTL redesign is going or when he onboarded the new ASIC engineers. Or which costs this failed attempt to do it all alone incurred. Or how many botched chips had been delivered.

[Mabsark]

Weekly Update: 1/8/13

Ken doesn't even know what day or even year it is. At least he got the month right though. 

[Thumper650]

Ugh. Failing to meet expectations is no evidence of intentional wrongdoing...

But failing to meet expectations by such a spectacular and dramatic margin sure is.
Either that, or new laws like Felonious Incompetence and Criminal Stupidity have to be passed.

[Flashman]

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

[JimmyJazz]

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

It is my line of thinking that home mining will become some what irrelevant, with huge corporate farms becoming more common.
We can already see it happening with huge farms such as Cloudhashing in Iceland and the pictures of ASICMINER recently released.
Economies of scale and all that jazz.

Maybe we are all being far to harsh and looking at the small picture. Ken has pointed out a few times his product is more industrial that that of a home miner.

This however does not mean that Ken should be much more transparent with the shareholders and customers.

What ever happens I will be holding - I have no choice either way.

[Thumper650]

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

If 500TH/sec chips are B&D hand drills, the 16TH/sec chip that ken has promised is...
It also pays to remember the growing difficulty.  A B&D hand drill delivered today is as effective as the all-pro CNC delivered tomorrow.

[wasubii]

From what I have learnt - Ken wants a perfect product and won't budge one bit on his thinking.

This could all still be OK depending on the timeline, but it does not fill you with confidence when Ken states he has no clue on the dates. (However probably a lie)

It's possible that Ken has seen the dawn glow of "Industrial scale" mining, by big boys with deep pockets.... the difference between the Black and Decker hand drills everyone else is making and a production robotic drilling station.... therefore is characterising "our" machines to fit this exploding niche.

If 500TH/sec chips are B&D hand drills, the 16TH/sec chip that ken has promised is...
It also pays to remember the growing difficulty.  A B&D hand drill delivered today is as effective as the all-pro CNC delivered tomorrow.

I wish we had 16TH/s chips

I think you mean 500GH/s and 16GH/s

But your point remains. Our efficiency to deploy is diminishing every single day. Soon we are going to look like the dickhead who thinks he can 'build the biggest bitcoin mine in the world' by only using USB miners while the rest of the world is pushing out chips hundreds of times as fast as ours....

[Minor Miner]

If there are $6M in pre-orders for these machines that likely will never work, then can someone point me toward the thread where the pre-order customers are asking questions?
It is strange I do not see it.   Because all those people are in line to get their money back before any investor does (if they exist).

[Thumper650]

...
I think you mean 500GH/s and 16GH/s
...

One day I'll learn how to math, and then... look out, world!

[zefyr0s]

Sure, investors are free to request a refund and I doubt Ken will deny this (I don't really know as it hasn't happened yet.) But they also run the risk of having to get back in at the end of the line when evidence of production does actually come out.

[VolanicEruptor]

Sure, investors are free to request a refund and I doubt Ken will deny this (I don't really know as it hasn't happened yet.) But they also run the risk of having to get back in at the end of the line when evidence of production does actually come out.

We are at the point where a refund would be more profitable than holding onto the machine, even if they ship now.

[Thumper650]

Sure, investors are free to request a refund and I doubt Ken will deny this (I don't really know as it hasn't happened yet.) But they also run the risk of having to get back in at the end of the line when evidence of production does actually come out.

With so many pre-order scams, people are beginning to confuse "investors" and "customers."
The guy pre-ordering a miner is called a customer.
The guy buying virtual shares in the Virtual Identity known as Active Mining could be euphemistically called "investor."

[damiano]

if ken would get these shares on an exchange, we could at least see our divs...we are owed divs since bf shut down...if we saw divs, that would quell a lot of the shit-storm of scam accusations.

I couldn't agree anymore.  This should be a priority along with the core business atm.

edit:  I also feel manual verification of shares could of been quicker at this point.

[somestranger]

if ken would get these shares on an exchange, we could at least see our divs...we are owed divs since bf shut down...if we saw divs, that would quell a lot of the shit-storm of scam accusations.

I couldn't agree anymore.  This should be a priority along with the core business atm.

I don't know how much of a "priority" that "working on the core business" is when Ken is sitting on here all day deleting posts and not answering anyone's pertinent questions.

[deizel]

do we even have eASIC chips?

Uhm no, we don't. He has been pretty clear about that (the RTL stuff). The situation is actually much, much worse than I thought.

Due to huge gaps in my knowledge I am unsure what some of the terms mean.

RTL is the design before an ASIC gets commissioned correct? So if we have to get another RTL that means the ASIC can't exist at all right?

However Ken has said that we are not respining the chip, so I assumed that mean that the chips sort of exist?

I am confused about how we don't need to respin (whatever that means) but we are still working on RTL.

Gladly, it seems "respin" doesn't take that long using eASIC:

San Jose, California, April 25, 2005 — eASIC® Corporation, a provider of Configurable Logic and Structured ASIC products, today announced that its customer STMicroelectronics achieved 24 hours turnaround from RTL to tape-out using eASIC’s Structured eASIC technology. ST has licensed eASIC’s 0.13µ eASICore® for the rapid customization of a printer platform, which allows ST to offer fast and easy customization of a printer system controller, as well as image processing personalization, in a standard pre-verified printer-engine architecture. ST’s engineering team was able to ship the final GDS-II files to the silicon fab for eBeam customization in less than a day from the time RTL was received. The eBeam customization, which is maskless, takes only a few hours for Structured eASIC devices since just a single Via layer needs to be written.

[VinceSamios]

<Bargraphics> there's no class action on this type of case
<Vigilante> BG, are you not a shareholder?
<Bargraphics> Yes I'm a shareholder of an unregulated company in belize
<uhm> well as you see i dont have any experience in these type of stuff but i'm willing to donate to get this started
<Bargraphics> the only people that have experience in this will not start it
<Bargraphics> I promise you
<Vigilante> OK, why is that?
<Bargraphics> you have to literally understand you are putting good money after bad
<Bargraphics> to want to do this

Bargraphics is completely right - let's discuss the potential outcomes.

1. you run out of money before you get a verdict, then have to cover the other sides costs (most likely)
2. you lose, and have to cover both sides costs (very likely)
3. you win, but all the winnings only cover legal expenses and put your investment out of business. (least likely)
4. you sit back, and see what happens, and you might get rich, or your shares might be worth nothing.

Options 1,2, & 3 look great. Good thinking team. /sarcasm

[neilol]

<Bargraphics> there's no class action on this type of case
<Vigilante> BG, are you not a shareholder?
<Bargraphics> Yes I'm a shareholder of an unregulated company in belize
<uhm> well as you see i dont have any experience in these type of stuff but i'm willing to donate to get this started
<Bargraphics> the only people that have experience in this will not start it
<Bargraphics> I promise you
<Vigilante> OK, why is that?
<Bargraphics> you have to literally understand you are putting good money after bad
<Bargraphics> to want to do this

Bargraphics is completely right - let's discuss the potential outcomes.

1. you run out of money before you get a verdict, then have to cover the other sides costs (most likely)
2. you lose, and have to cover both sides costs (very likely)
3. you win, but all the winnings only cover legal expenses and put your investment out of business. (least likely)
4. you sit back, and see what happens, and you might get rich, or your shares might be worth nothing.

Options 1,2, & 3 look great. Good thinking team. /sarcasm

If people only filed rape reports when it was financially advantageous for them, rapists would be free to continue with their rapings.
You have been raped, punked, what have you.
I applaud you for "sitting back and seeing what happens."
*There are people who actually believe in things like justice, and don't enjoy surprise butsecs of the Slaughter variety.

We are in this to make money, that has been the goal from the beginning.