[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread [Self-Moderated]

[MrTeal]

For just the 55nm chips, I'm spitballing numbers that look something like, $500 a wafer, 200 chips a wafer, 2gh a chip, 10c a chip for balling and packaging. So about a buck thirty a gigahash in chips, say a buck 50 with NRE amortized over a crap load. Probably $2 a Gh our cost by the time they are on boards...

If the numbers come close to that ballpark, it's making sense.

Those numbers seem way off. For example, Bitfury chips get around 2GH/s and they probably get ~4k dies out of a single wafer. Your cost for a fully processed wafer is also low, though not enough to even out with being possibly 20x on the number of chips.
Cost should be a lot lower than $2/GH/s at the board level to have chance of being competitive though. Cointerra is selling May delivery units in a chassis with cooling, controller and power supplies for $3/GH/s, and that's including markup to cover overhead. Cost for a 55nm product with chips shipping even in Q2 will have to be way below $1GH/s at the board level to be sensible.

[wasubii]

@minerpart

The question is for Ken to answer. One would hope he knows the costs...

[Vigil]

Bloody 'el, calm your jets!

I have re-read the last couple of pages and agree I was mistaken to assume that Vigil was having a go.  He was saying what he believed to be factual and if I'd not missed the crucial coma in his sentence perhaps I wouldn't have jumped to the wrong conclusion.  My judgement was clouded by Vigil's recent turn from pro-ActM to calling it a scam and having cheap digs at such things like the volume on CT after Vigils theory that we were already mining was shown to be wrong.

I apologise sincerely for making this rash judgement, for the unfortunate language I used and for upsetting anyone who I may have offended.

Your turn..

How is citing CT's volume a cheap dig? Also, my theory was never actually shown to be wrong. People just claimed it was wrong. We don't have enough information to prove anything. Its still a possibility in my book, regardless, until the owner of that operation steps forward and says otherwise. Did I ever acknowledge that it was incorrect?

[zumzero]

@minerpart

The question is for Ken to answer. One would hope he knows the costs...

Talking of which, Ken got back to me to say he would address the questions I posted earlier in the weekly update.  I have taken no action regarding your subsequent questions.

[Flashman]

Those numbers seem way off. For example, Bitfury chips get around 2GH/s and they probably get ~4k dies out of a single wafer. Your cost for a fully processed wafer is also low, though not enough to even out with being possibly 20x on the number of chips.
Cost should be a lot lower than $2/GH/s at the board level to have chance of being competitive though. Cointerra is selling May delivery units in a chassis with cooling, controller and power supplies for $3/GH/s, and that's including markup to cover overhead. Cost for a 55nm product with chips shipping even in Q2 will have to be way below $1GH/s at the board level to be sensible.

Right, should have thought longer about that. I don't have any access to the latest reports behind paywalls, or needing industry membership, I was seeing 2 year old projections showing 55nm dropping below $1000 a wafer and figuring UMC being the cheapest in the business.

Also, yah, should have thought twice about number per wafer, think it was GPU cores, which can be massive, BFL got 1000 per wafer didn't they on 65, for 4gh chips so don't know what I was thinking there.

[wasubii]

@zum

I have PM'd Ken with my three questions

[zumzero]

Nice one.  Let's hope for the detailed responses we'd like.  I do think that minerpart has a point in that Ken may or may not be in a position to give full answers to everything even if he were willing, but we'll see.

[Bitdust]

Those numbers seem way off. For example, Bitfury chips get around 2GH/s and they probably get ~4k dies out of a single wafer. Your cost for a fully processed wafer is also low, though not enough to even out with being possibly 20x on the number of chips.
Cost should be a lot lower than $2/GH/s at the board level to have chance of being competitive though. Cointerra is selling May delivery units in a chassis with cooling, controller and power supplies for $3/GH/s, and that's including markup to cover overhead. Cost for a 55nm product with chips shipping even in Q2 will have to be way below $1GH/s at the board level to be sensible.

Right, should have thought longer about that. [excuses]

Also, yah, should have thought twice about [not sure what] so don't know what I was thinking there.

^^Typical ActM prognosticator fail^^

[shrodes]

How long after CT setup will the accrued dividends be payed out? And how much is it per share at the moment?

[keepinithamsta]

How long after CT setup will the accrued dividends be payed out? And how much is it per share at the moment?

Currently publicly known balance is roughly 55 BTC, or 0.0000055 per share.  These have been accruing since the last week of October.  Current rate is less than 5BTC a month to be split between 10M shares, or less than 0.0000005 per share per month.  We're not that many retargets away from making less than a Satoshi per week, per share.

[pedrog]

How long after CT setup will the accrued dividends be payed out? And how much is it per share at the moment?

Currently publicly known balance is roughly 55 BTC, or 0.0000055 per share.  These have been accruing since the last week of October.  Current rate is less than 5BTC a month to be split between 10M shares, or less than 0.0000005 per share per month.  We're not that many retargets away from making less than a Satoshi per week, per share.

I had better return from Labcoin... 

[keepinithamsta]

How long after CT setup will the accrued dividends be payed out? And how much is it per share at the moment?

Currently publicly known balance is roughly 55 BTC, or 0.0000055 per share.  These have been accruing since the last week of October.  Current rate is less than 5BTC a month to be split between 10M shares, or less than 0.0000005 per share per month.  We're not that many retargets away from making less than a Satoshi per week, per share.

I had better return from Labcoin... 

So did I.  I figured we would have had a turn-on of at least 24TH/s by now if the project ended up being successful.  At this point, February looks like a wash for launch and March launch turns into a mining failure unless Intellihash is a time machine that is able to hash at a difficulty several months in the past.

[Vigil]

How long after CT setup will the accrued dividends be payed out? And how much is it per share at the moment?

Currently publicly known balance is roughly 55 BTC, or 0.0000055 per share.  These have been accruing since the last week of October.  Current rate is less than 5BTC a month to be split between 10M shares, or less than 0.0000005 per share per month.  We're not that many retargets away from making less than a Satoshi per week, per share.

I had better return from Labcoin... 

So did I.  I figured we would have had a turn-on of at least 24TH/s by now if the project ended up being successful.  At this point, February looks like a wash for launch and March launch turns into a mining failure unless Intellihash is a time machine that is able to hash at a difficulty several months in the past.

The good thing is that it looks like difficulty should be "leveling-off" by the end of this year.

[mainline]

How long after CT setup will the accrued dividends be payed out? And how much is it per share at the moment?

Currently publicly known balance is roughly 55 BTC, or 0.0000055 per share.  These have been accruing since the last week of October.  Current rate is less than 5BTC a month to be split between 10M shares, or less than 0.0000005 per share per month.  We're not that many retargets away from making less than a Satoshi per week, per share.

I had better return from Labcoin... 

So did I.  I figured we would have had a turn-on of at least 24TH/s by now if the project ended up being successful.  At this point, February looks like a wash for launch and March launch turns into a mining failure unless Intellihash is a time machine that is able to hash at a difficulty several months in the past.

The good thing is that it looks like difficulty should be "leveling-off" by the end of this year.

The difficulty will level off when it becomes unprofitable for the best ASIC manufacturers to sell chips. This won't change as long as basic economic laws hold.  Rising tide floats all boats yadda yadda yadda.

[smiley35]

I have registered an account with crypto trade with the same email as bitfunder. How do I claim my shares now? I see that shares are being traded.

[tslimx]

Those would be Uykos seized shares for the whole weex/bitfunder fiasco.

[MilkyLep]

TLDR; You still cant claim nor trade your shares.

[electerium]

I want to invest into this company, but all i see is complete vaporware.


No proof tapeout exists or occurred
no proof of ownership of this new IP
no proof of ANYTHING


How can I invest into this thing when the press release is 3 sentences, that's backed up by nothing but hot air?

kslaughter would have a lot more people on his side, a lot less complaining, and certainly a lot less wild accusations thrown around if he'd spend a little more time showing proof that whatever he says, is actually real and happening.

then i'd invest. until then i cannot believe anyone would be a part of this venture.

[nookfoo]

I want to invest into this company, but all i see is complete vaporware.

Then why do you want to invest?

[iSnow]

I want to invest into this company, but all i see is complete vaporware.
[...]
until then i cannot believe anyone would be a part of this venture.

Yeah, this makes complete sense.