[PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela

[sxafir]

This is this crypto venezuela?

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[STT]

Well I see mention of an oil backing.   A properly backed currency, which is unusual now in paper FIAT, would be exchanged for oil at some level.   So I'd like to see that idea cleared up, how many Petro to fill an oil tanker should I choose to do so.   If its possible to do this, the currency will never devalue more then oil itself.    I'm guessing this level of backing is not on the ratio I imagine

Exactly. The price of a Venezuelan oil barrel is supposed to be the base price, not necessarily the price the Petro will reach while freely exchanged and traded. This was confirmed in several comments, even by Maduro.

As for the exchange you won't get oil, obviously. You will get the official value of the oil barrel, in Bolivares. In my opinion this is potentially going to change in the future if the government decides to create more confidence: they could extend the exchange to other cryptos, instead of only Bolivares which would be hard to actually use outside of Venezuela. But they need first to create a national reserve of cryptos to support that option. That could already be the case after the ICO.

I would like to see this Petro replace the Bolivar, I hope we can celebrate that happening and the people of Venezuela benefiting from a fixed currency base used in oil production.   Its hard to say how it will turn out for sure without bias but free exchange would be a positive if that occurs

Morality aside, for my one brief point here, if it is not mineable, what is to stop that gov’t
from doing what it did with their fiat cash currency 💴 ? Pumping coin out in mass, and changing
their mind on limits on coin? If/when this crypto project tanks. Likely, imho

I believe the standard for Petro quotes set amounts so it wont be debased later on.   So long as that is not changeable later on it seems a positive.  I dont know if its similar to Ripple's distribution perhaps, it might even be superior.   Its not minable or confirmed like a decentralised blockchain, its centred around governments production of oil supposedly this will lend value with some kind of unfixed ratio of backing.

[alemacgo]

Next Presidential election is on 22nd April, 2018, very soon.

More elections don't equal more democracy.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/24/opinion/1519491858_220756.html

[happyminer1]

Part of what is said by taseenb is right but unfortunately much is wrong or misleading and simply reflects the official propaganda around the petro. Only a few examples:

Petro ($PTR) will be a sovereign crypto asset backed by oil assets and issued by the Venezuelan State.

El Petro will not be backed by oil assets as is made clear by the white paper. There is no mechanism at all by which a holder of petros will be able to successfully claim oil assets or their value from the Venezuelan state.

That phrase is copied from the White Paper. You are wrong, $PTR is backed by oil assets and will be exchanged by its value in Bolivares. The mechanism is not in place yet, simply because the Petro is not even active yet.

You indeed copied the phrase from the white paper. That doesn't make it true. As I said: You are spreading the official propaganda around the petro. That it is supposedly backed by oil assests is central part of this propaganda. Only that the white paper shows it isn't. That the mechanism isn't in place yet is not the problem. The problem is that there is no mechanism foreseen. If there was going to be one it would have been the task of the white paper to describe it. There is none and there won't be one.

[happyminer1]

Morality aside, for my one brief point here, if it is not mineable, what is to stop that gov’t
from doing what it did with their fiat cash currency? Pumping coin out in mass, and changing
their mind on limits on coin? If/when this crypto project tanks. Likely, imho

the venezuelan government didn't print its currency in mass.
that's another fake news.

No fake news, just plain truth. From December 2016 to December 2017 the money supply  (M2) in Venezuela was increased by 1120,78%. This according to data published by the Central Bank of Venezuela. Check it yourself if you doubt it: http://www.bcv.org.ve/excel/1_3_1.xls

so, do you think that the Petro will succeed?
otherwise, it doesn't make sense "pumping Petros out in mass".
nobody will buy Petros if it becomes a "shitcoin", you know?

It does make sense for instance if the government forces economic agents in Venezuela to accept petros as payment by making it legal tender. Maduro's decrees at the "launching" of the petro point into that direction.

[coinve]

No fake news, just plain truth.
From December 2016 to December 2017 the money supply  (M2) in Venezuela was increased by 1120,78%.
This according to data published by the Central Bank of Venezuela.

And why the money supply increased? tell the whole story.

It does make sense for instance if the government forces economic agents in Venezuela to accept petros as payment by making it legal tender.
Maduro's decrees at the "launching" of the petro point into that direction.

If you belive that the venezuelan government is going to "pumping Petros in mass"
then don't buy Petros, nobody is pushing you, good luck!

-----------

Petro will be released and if it doesn't fail by technical issues
then the venezuelan people will start using it and some investors will buy it no matter what we discuss here.
So, i'm not going to waste too much time discussing fake news and lies.

[coinve]

Advantages and Disadvantages of Crypto-Currencies: The Petro
https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13611

[taseenb]

No fake news, just plain truth. From December 2016 to December 2017 the money supply  (M2) in Venezuela was increased by 1120,78%. This according to data published by the Central Bank of Venezuela. Check it yourself if you doubt it: http://www.bcv.org.ve/excel/1_3_1.xls

The money supply increased because of the fabricated exchange rate (USD / Bolivar) imposed through the black market and DolarToday (https://dolartoday.com/), a website based in Cucuta and Miami. The Central Bank was forced to increase the supply, because the inflation skyrocketed.

If you try to apply a common logic to the economic crisis in Venezuela, you would find that it doesn't work. Venezuela does not have a "normal" recession.  Venezuela goes through an economic war that was triggered by the collapse of oil prices in 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_oil_glut).

[taseenb]

Next Presidential election is on 22nd April, 2018, very soon.

More elections don't equal more democracy.
https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/24/opinion/1519491858_220756.html

El Pais is a propaganda tool of coup plotters and have supported violence and terrorism (when it serves their interests), it has always been. The have been publishing fake news and negative propaganda against Venezuela, every day, for 20 years. Venezuela is a democracy, where parties can participate in elections and people can vote.

[coinve]

Impressive Petro Presale Prompts Plans for Second Cryptocurrency
https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13679

Caracas going crypto-crazy: Venezuela set to launch second digital currency
https://www.rt.com/business/419528-venezuela-second-cryptocurrency-maduro/

Venezuelan state oil firm to strike deals using national cryptocurrency
https://www.rt.com/business/419419-pdvsa-oil-deals-petro-maduro/

Venezuela raised $735mn on launch of oil-backed ‘petro’ cryptocurrency
https://www.rt.com/business/419397-venezuela-petro-cryptocurrency-maduro/

[happyminer1]

No fake news, just plain truth. From December 2016 to December 2017 the money supply  (M2) in Venezuela was increased by 1120,78%. This according to data published by the Central Bank of Venezuela. Check it yourself if you doubt it: http://www.bcv.org.ve/excel/1_3_1.xls

The money supply increased because of the fabricated exchange rate (USD / Bolivar) imposed through the black market and DolarToday (https://dolartoday.com/), a website based in Cucuta and Miami. The Central Bank was forced to increase the supply, because the inflation skyrocketed.

The black market is the result of inadequate supply of foreign exchange through official channels. A website cannot impose an exchange rate. The Central Bank increased supply to finance the fiscal deficit.

If you try to apply a common logic to the economic crisis in Venezuela, you would find that it doesn't work. Venezuela does not have a "normal" recession.  Venezuela goes through an economic war that was triggered by the collapse of oil prices in 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010s_oil_glut).

Lower oil prices surely explain something as do US sanctions since August 2017. For the rest, there is no economic war on Venezuela, but disastrous economic policy.

[coinve]

This is truly valuable information. I have been looking for a way to buy Petro, but I did not have the slightest idea on how to proceed. Now I finally have some clues and I can study how the process works.

as far as I know,
right know you can only make a "intention to buy", an offer.
you are not going to really buy petros at the moment.
there are still no petros, blockchain or transactions.

if the government is really selling and receiving money,
that would be private with big investors using others mechanisms, i guess.

if you want to deal with the venezuelan government burocracy
and its technical issues just to make an offer, then go to: elpetro.gob.ve
anything else is a scam.

you just register in elpetro.gob.ve
they send you a email.
go to the link that comes with the email.
make the offer and you're done, i believe.
i'm not sure if they ask you for something else like the "crypto exchanges".
i think they had to simplified the process because they were receiving too many offers or web traffic.

[alemacgo]

you are not going to really buy petros at the moment.
there are still no petros, blockchain or transactions.

That's very interesting! So Maduro basically pulled the 9837563 gazillion dollars number out of thin air? With no blockchain, no auditable contracts, and no recognizable party announcing how much they're investing, can we really trust what Maduro is saying? I think not.

[StoneCrypto]

Anyone know how the Petro is progressing? I haven't heart anything positive about it yet and the idea of being backed by a physical asset (barrel of oil) just sounds like a whole bunch more headache.

[taseenb]

you are not going to really buy petros at the moment.
there are still no petros, blockchain or transactions.

That's very interesting! So Maduro basically pulled the 9837563 gazillion dollars number out of thin air? With no blockchain, no auditable contracts, and no recognizable party announcing how much they're investing, can we really trust what Maduro is saying? I think not.

Yes, you can trust Maduro. But Maduro is a chief of State, not a technician. So you should listen his generic declarations about the project, don't expect specific technical details.
He declared that investors offered more than 750 millions dollars in 24h from the pre-sale launch, which is quite possible since they're offering 40% discount on the oil price. The initial investments in Petro will be much higher than that, likely.

You can make an offer saying how much Petro would you like to buy on the official pre-sale page (after registration): https://regpetro.mppeuct.gob.ve/

[taseenb]

Anyone know how the Petro is progressing? I haven't heart anything positive about it yet and the idea of being backed by a physical asset (barrel of oil) just sounds like a whole bunch more headache.

Pre-sale just started on the 20th February. You cannot buy yet, only make an offer (how much you'd like to buy during the ICO, at a discounted price). The technology is still under development, so things can still change. We'll know more towards the end of March or early April. So stay tuned.

Most negative things you hear mirror US and EU media negative propaganda: hostility against Venezuela is very strong because their government is not enslaved and they have a lot of oil. Be careful, only rely on official information from Venezuelan government sources if you decide to buy (there are many fakes already).

[taseenb]

That phrase is copied from the White Paper. You are wrong, $PTR is backed by oil assets and will be exchanged by its value in Bolivares. The mechanism is not in place yet, simply because the Petro is not even active yet.

You indeed copied the phrase from the white paper. That doesn't make it true. As I said: You are spreading the official propaganda around the petro. That it is supposedly backed by oil assests is central part of this propaganda. Only that the white paper shows it isn't. That the mechanism isn't in place yet is not the problem. The problem is that there is no mechanism foreseen. If there was going to be one it would have been the task of the white paper to describe it. There is none and there won't be one.

You can have personal opinions and invent things. In economic and legal terms FACTS are:

- The oil reserves of a part of the Orinoco Belt (for 5.342 billion certified barrels of oil) form the initial backing of the Petro and this has been made into law in Venezuela, months ago.
- The White Paper is the only official document that introduces the project to the world, so until there is evidence of something else, that is what we know. Anything else is an opinion.
- The mechanism to exchange Petros in Bolivares is not in place yet for a simple reason: there are no Petros yet.

Also, this argument against the Petro is really weak. Few will want to actually exchange Petros in Bolivares (that is not the interest of Petro investors and that is not the goal): the expectation is that Petro will actually be more valuable that its value in oil/bolivares, once introduced in the secondary market (exchanges) because of its adoption by millions of people and companies, in Venezuela and abroad. That's the real challenge. Petro could be the most used (I don't say not the most traded) crypto currency in the world at some point.

[alemacgo]

He declared that investors offered more than 750 millions dollars in 24h from the pre-sale launch

You know what we love the most about the decentralized movement? We have no need to trust central authorities, especially authorities that spend their days bossing around and ordering other people what to do, requiring absolute loyalty (that's what Maduro does, in case you haven't noticed, watch him give orders to the audience and get forced applauses, very North-Korea-style).

Maduro claimed a ridiculous number, considering the top-grossing ICOs in history, and considering the track record of Venezuela with economic mismanagement and hyperinflation. It's simply a bad investment, and everybody knows it.

So my very strong suspicion is that Maduro is (a) making those numbers up so that they sound impressive, or (b) ordered a bunch of people and bots to make fake offers, something that's not impossible to do, even with recaptcha. We have no way of knowing (sadly!) because the code isn't open source and nobody can audit it.

Shame.

[taseenb]

He declared that investors offered more than 750 millions dollars in 24h from the pre-sale launch

Maduro claimed a ridiculous number, considering the top-grossing ICOs in history, and considering the track record of Venezuela with economic mismanagement and hyperinflation. It's simply a bad investment, and everybody knows it.

False: many think differently. You simply repeat what you see in the mainstream and social media (from one part of the world only, which means massive hostile propaganda against Venezuela).
Venezuela history, relations with the US and the situation of its economy are a complex subjects: either you get into it seriously or you keep living in Disneyworld and repeating childish narratives. That's very simple.

This has never happened in history and Venezuela will push crypto adoption (not only Petro) like no other country has done so far.

But hey, sit back and relax. Nobody forces you to invest anything in Petro if you think it's a bad investment.

[taseenb]

I think Venezuela should involve others countries in Petro like Russians, China, Saudi Arabia or Iran

Except Saudi Arabia (US vassal), they are all very involved already in Petro and in their own crypto currencies, in many different ways. One of the companies developing Petro is Russian and Venezuela has huge relations with Chinese companies providing hardware (certainly also for their newly launched State owned mining factories, and also for private miners that are now regulated in Venezuela).

What we read here is the US/European focused imperial (and often racist) culture that is losing grip: people repeat narratives from the US propaganda as if everything coming out from Bloomberg, Reuters, CNN, New York Times was true, and anybody else was an idiot or evil. Well, it will be nice to see. Many surprises to come.