[PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela

[minerbobbert]

Does anyone here doubt that tassenb and coinve are just plants by the Venezuelan government?

They talk like propaganda experts groomed by government PR agents and say nothing but official government talking points.

Venezuela is a collapsing economy that is failed due to corruption and failed economic policies, but everything according to them is the fault of outside influences on the pristine, innocent socialist revolution.  Millions are fleeing Venezuela and those that stay are starving.

They are probably getting paid to pump this as it's the only way they can eat. I wouldn't put such propaganda tricks past Maduros regime.

The government has no credibility. This is a last ditch effort to raise money to keep the failed state afloat for another few months. You can guarantee any investment here will be lost.

I agree with the statement up above. This is an immoral investment, even if it wasn't guaranteed to be a complete blunder.

Stay away.

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[taseenb]

Venezuela is a collapsing economy that is failed due to corruption and failed economic policies, but everything according to them is the fault of outside influences on the pristine, innocent socialist revolution.  Millions are fleeing Venezuela and those that stay are starving.

Don't be more ridiculous than necessary, please.

By the way, Venezuelan economy is in trouble due to US sanctions (that make it impossible to trade in USD and even get medicines and food from near countries, allied/puppets of the US like Colombia) and historic oil price collapse since 2014 (oil represents more than 90% of exports income, which is about 15-20% of GDP, therefore it was a significant reduction in revenue). The current economic crisis in Venezuela is not a "normal" recession crisis. It's a fabricated crisis, supported by years of massive propaganda job. Some argue "corruption" and "bad policies" are the reason of everything: sorry, no corruption makes it impossible to get medicines and food from neighbouring countries, mostly because Venezuela has the money to pay for food and medicines, but now has to import it from India, Russia, China, because the US, Brazil, Colombia and others boycott them.

Petro is one of the answers to overcome (at least partially) the sanctions, that are totally illegal for the UN and the international law. The Petro is therefore not only a revolutionary crypto currency, the first issued by a State, it is also a legitimate and useful one, for the people of Venezuela. And a good example for other countries.

[taseenb]

There is no guarantee whatsoever that you will get a 30% - or any - discount by making a pre-sale offer.

According to the white paper a (relatively small) part of the tokens will be sold with 30% discount, then the discount will be lower. But from my understanding ALL the tokens sold during the pre-sale and ICO will be discounted, compared to the full oil barrel price.

[minerbobbert]

You are delusional. The economy was in trouble long before US sanctions. The sanctions are only against members of the government and their families for humanitarian crimes.

Nobody trades with Venezuela because the Venezuelan government in the time of Chavez declared a fixed exhange rate of the Bolivar, making it unprofitable for anyone to do business with Venezuela. That is why there is no trade. That is why there is a normal rate AND a black market rate on the Bolivar. That is all Venezuela's doing, but paid government shills can admit no wrong and must look outside the country to find a villian.

Venezuela's economy was falling long before the "oil crisis".

It is ironic the person in a country with government controlled media accuses others if being victims of propaganda.

Stay away from this scam people. You will only lose money and your humanity.

[STT]

Venezuela isnt the only country to have operated capital controls like that and a fixed exchange rate.   I believe UK did this at one point, I can remember reading Nixon implemented price controls in the 70's.   It didnt work, it never does and it was dropped after a while but this isnt a one off economic scenario anyhow.  However its clear from this and previous examples it does lead to restriction in open trade which can be negative spiral of constricting the economy overall.
   Lots of countries seek to protect their own industry and exclude imports from more efficient competing countries.   The real solution is not force and that kind of dual rate, State and black market but to improve efficiency in the domestic market so that it no longer wants to import goods as much and even exports in greater amounts.   I tend to agree the majority of problems would stem from internal factors but its true of many countries not just this one but this does seem more far pronounced.   USA has a giant trade deficit and that will be a problem eventually, lots of countries have various imbalances.
  I hope crypto gives a way back to a free market really I do for the peoples sake

[taseenb]

You are delusional. The economy was in trouble long before US sanctions. The sanctions are only against members of the government and their families for humanitarian crimes.

Totally false.

The sanctions have been activated by Obama to exploit the economic crisis that was triggered by the collapse in oil prices (2014). The economy of the whole region was slowing down in the last years as a result of the global crisis anyway, so growth was slower, but Venezuelan economy was not catastrophic at all. See GDP, in 2013 was still stable.

The sanctions were not only against members of the government (which is illegal anyway, according to international law, as a way to discredit a democratically elected government). From 2015, the sanctions were financial and made it difficult to make transactions through US banks and get loans like any other country, which harmed the oil industry enormously (impossible to make the regular investments needed to keep high levels of production).

Starting from 2017 the illegal sanctions became a theft: the US completely froze Venezuelan State bank accounts and large amount of assets in the US, including the revenues of CITGO (large gas stations network owned by Venezuela). Basically the US stole tens of billions of dollars from Venezuelans overnight when Trump signed the sanction, making it totally impossible to have a normal financial functioning.

Since 2015 (and likely earlier) it's impossible to trade regularly with all the countries allied with the US in the region: Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, etc. Venezuela was boycotted and refused to be delivered specific products, mostly those that have high demand (like some medicines and some kinds of food, flour, or hygene products, like toilet paper).

This comes with an internal boycott of several private companies, owned by the opposition, that helped make the delivery of some specific products even harder.

This is called "dirty war". The US have practiced it several times in the world, and mostly in South America. The most famous case is Chile, from 1971, that ended with elected president Allende killed, and dictator Pinochet installed for almost 20 years, and thousands of "desaparecidos", tortured, raped, imprisoned, etc.

The Petro is one of the defenses the government of Venezuela is trying to apply to guarantee the trade and recover the oil industry.

[taseenb]

Venezuela isnt the only country to have operated capital controls like that and a fixed exchange rate.  

  I hope crypto gives a way back to a free market really I do for the peoples sake

In South America many countries have practiced several forms of capital and exchange control for obvious reason: they have suffered for decades from a total chronic domination by the US dollar and de-facto US puppet governments (or dictatorships) that have practiced policies to empower American companies rather than develop local industries (actually the destruction of entire advanced industrial sectors created in periods of independent governments is a recurrent thing in history of South America).
Americans always enforced an undeveloped industry in the continent, because they only need cheap raw material and workforce, so South Americans import high added value products, becoming more and more poor. Venezuelans buy Nike and Iphones, and sell raw oil: they will always lose. That's why the chavistas governments started a very long process of development, from free education to access to technology, housing, healthcare and incentives to creation of enterprises in the most needed sectors. Lifting millions of people from poverty is the basis to enlarge the productive power of an economy: more demand, more education, more access to the economy, more growth. The demand in Venezuela has skyrocketed, the economy has grown for many years, almost until 2011-13, also thanks to the high oil prices and despite the continuous US aggressions. These development policies are considered hostile by the US.

In this condition, local currencies are obviously extremely weak (the levels of inflation in many Latin American countries are very high, even without an economic crisis). People try to create savings by buying USD. Mostly rich people export endless streams of capitals that end in US and European banks or tax havens. This has led many governments (not US puppets) to create some sort of exchange and capital control, with some exemptions for companies that need to import. Of course this is not ideal, but it's a measure that comes from weakness, not certainly because people in power like it (also because it's unpopular). It obviously might not work and create the opposite effect, through the black market: an inflation spiral as you say.

BUT.

This is absolutely not the main problem in Venezuela: the situation is WAY more complex than that. The capital control is only the thing opposition supporters keep repeating obsessively to attack the government (it's an opinion among others), but any change in exchange controls is far to solve the many problems and even the hyper-inflation, which is caused by other manipulations of the market (mostly an arbitrary criminal exchange rate established arbitrarily from Colombia and Miami, called DollarToday). If it was so easy to stop the inflation, the government would have done it.

The Petro could help, but it will take time. They are doing many other things to face a situation of "dirty war" that is currently unique in the world, and needs innovative and creative solutions.

[sonnycrockett]

Taseenb, it's obvious that you and Coinve are somehow part of the regime and the group behind the Petro, probably working with some kind of equity arrangement to help get it launched.

It's just really sad that you're out here pushing this completely false propaganda from a group of incredibly bad human beings that are trying to do whatever they can to cling on to power, oppression of the people and their corrupt money that they've been enjoying. Money that they have literally stolen from you and every one of your fellow Venezuelans. Yet, here you are trying to steal more on their behalf from crypto investors over the internet..... Shame on you, mi pana.

[taseenb]

Taseenb, it's obvious that you and Coinve are somehow part of the regime and the group behind the Petro, probably working with some kind of equity arrangement to help get it launched.

Let me tell you this, so it's clear:

I would love to work for the Venezuelan government on an exciting project like the Petro!! The Venezuelan government is an institution of peace, led by a man of peace, Nicolas Maduro, deeply loved (and voted) by many millions of citizens. I cannot even imagine how amazing it must be to be part of the Petro team these days: these people are literally making history, with great courage and creativity. You'd love it too. RESPECT.

Unfortunately I live in London and I am a humble crypto currencies and blockchain enthusiast and developer. I also happen to be from Argentina and a proud Latin American, with the dream of an independent, sovereign and free continent from the $USD and also from US colonialism and racism, in its various forms. I simply can't care less about your hate and ignorance, it's sad but it's your problem. I obviously understand why you think like that, it's not your fault only. I know that you only get negative stories about Venezuela. It's by design.

You can keep watching CNN (and similar) war propaganda garbage if you enjoy it, but you are missing out a lot of good and exciting things going on.

Buy Petro. It's a cool one and it's even a good cause

[happyminer1]

There is no guarantee whatsoever that you will get a 30% - or any - discount by making a pre-sale offer.

But from my understanding ALL the tokens sold during the pre-sale and ICO will be discounted, compared to the full oil barrel price.

Your understanding is, as so often, wrong. For at least two reasons. The first one is this:

"... the discount will decrease successively for each lot sold, until the last lot, of 24,000,000 Petro, which will have no discount." (White Paper, p. 21)

[happyminer1]

You are delusional. The economy was in trouble long before US sanctions. The sanctions are only against members of the government and their families for humanitarian crimes.

Totally false.

The sanctions have been activated by Obama to exploit the economic crisis that was triggered by the collapse in oil prices (2014). The economy of the whole region was slowing down in the last years as a result of the global crisis anyway, so growth was slower, but Venezuelan economy was not catastrophic at all. See GDP, in 2013 was still stable.

The sanctions were not only against members of the government (which is illegal anyway, according to international law, as a way to discredit a democratically elected government). From 2015, the sanctions were financial and made it difficult to make transactions through US banks and get loans like any other country, which harmed the oil industry enormously (impossible to make the regular investments needed to keep high levels of production).

Not true. Stop spreading lies. Which sanctions were activated before August 2017 and were not directed against (a very small number of) people linked to the Venezuelan government? (There are none.)

[happyminer1]

The Venezuelan government is an institution of peace, led by a man of peace, Nicolas Maduro

From the statement by UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein, 7 March 2018:

The human rights situation in Venezuela is deeply alarming. ... I am also deeply alarmed by the possibility that crimes against humanity have been committed, and by the erosion of democratic institutions. ... Freedom of expression, opinion, association and peaceful assembly are being repressed and severely restricted. My Office has also received credible reports of hundreds of extra-judicial killings in recent years, both during protests and security operations.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22772&LangID=E

Buy Petro. It's a cool one and it's even a good cause

As long it is good cause to support people responsible for extra-judicial killings.

[taseenb]

Not true. Stop spreading lies. Which sanctions were activated before August 2017 and were not directed against (a very small number of) people linked to the Venezuelan government? (There are none.)

The illegal US sanctions activated in 2015 with the pretext of an "extraordinary threat" (then were extended in 2016, 2017 and also extended by the US Congress) had a single goal: make US and European banks stop to deal with Venezuela and isolate the country from foreign investors. This is exactly what happened, also helped by the enslaved US corporate media, which has always been a fundamental tool of CIA and US administration in wars and dirty wars. They've also used other tools of the unconventional war like local criminal gangs (often payed by opposition leaders) and financial crime like DolarToday and currency extraction. Venezuela started to be even more isolated from 2015, while its economy was already in trouble.

Then, from 2017 the US literally stole billions of dollars from Venezuelan bank accounts and assets.

If you see someone in trouble, a normal person would try to help...

[happyminer1]

Not true. Stop spreading lies. Which sanctions were activated before August 2017 and were not directed against (a very small number of) people linked to the Venezuelan government? (There are none.)

The illegal US sanctions activated in 2015 ...

To your additional false claims we can come later. First either admit, that all sanctions before August 2017 were directed agains a small group of people linked to the government or point us to proof that were others.

[taseenb]

As long it is good cause to support people responsible for extra-judicial killings.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights is a single Jordanian prince (yes prince!) who has attacked Venezuela with totally unsubstantiated claims in various occasions. Wonder why attacking Venezuela makes you a great career...

There are no such thing as "extra-judicial killings" in Venezuela, it's a complete fantasy.  

There have been 176 deaths in 2017 because of opposition funded criminal gangs, described as "protests": these gangs were armed and are responsible of more than a half of the deaths, including several security forces. A truth and reparation commission has been create last year and is still working on creating exact reports for ALL the victims. There are also several policemen who've been suspended or arrested for abuses, something almost no country in the world would even have done in such circumstances.

[taseenb]

Your understanding is, as so often, wrong. For at least two reasons. The first one is this:

"... the discount will decrease successively for each lot sold, until the last lot, of 24,000,000 Petro, which will have no discount." (White Paper, p. 21)

Gotcha, you are right on this one. First time, or second maybe, you say something true and can actually prove it.

Take note: No discounts after 24 million Petros.

[taseenb]

To your additional false claims we can come later. First either admit, that all sanctions before August 2017 were directed agains a small group of people linked to the government or point us to proof that were others.

False.

The illegal US sanctions declared Venezuela an "unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States". By doing this, Washington declared Venezuela an official US enemy, triggering a huge escalation of an already conflictual relation and starting a diplomatic domino that pushed other governments in the western hemisphere to follow the boss in the following years. This had an obvious and important impact in the diplomatic, financial, industrial relations and on the economy of Venezuela, since 2015.

I suppose that's all.

[happyminer1]

To your additional false claims we can come later. First either admit, that all sanctions before August 2017 were directed agains a small group of people linked to the government or point us to proof that were others.

False.

The illegal US sanctions declared Venezuela an "unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States".

Indeed Obama declared that. But then only ordered sanctions against a small number of persons. (Seven at first, to be precise.) Do you know the difference between an order and the reasons given for that order?

[taseenb]

Indeed Obama declared that. But then only ordered sanctions against a small number of persons. (Seven at first, to be precise.) Do you know the difference between an order and the reasons given for that order?

It's the exact opposite. The sanctions against Venezuelan officials are totally illegal and shameful, but have almost no impact by themselves. The formal declaration of "threat" is a way to smear and send a political message to all the allies, like in the mafia. It is the way Washington allowed the escalation, from the administration and government, and therefore more sanctions and attacks. All this of course, along with all the other ongoing criminal operations: media blockade, financial crime, violence, coup plots etc.

No country in the world has ever been victim of such a long lasting (20 years), endless series of attacks, sabotages, smears, psyops and criminal operations. And a (failed) military coup, and many coup plots.

Enough, you repeated the same question 3 times. Good luck.

[happyminer1]

As long it is good cause to support people responsible for extra-judicial killings.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights is a single Jordanian prince (yes prince!) who has attacked Venezuela with totally unsubstantiated claims in various occasions. Wonder why attacking Venezuela makes you a great career...

There are no such thing as "extra-judicial killings" in Venezuela, it's a complete fantasy.

He was unanimously approved approved by the United Nations General Assembly and bases his statements on well documented reports by his office. He surely has better information on Venezuela than you.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2014/06/471002-general-assembly-confirms-jordans-prince-zeid-new-un-human-rights-chief
http://www.ohchr.org/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/Documents/Countries/VE/HCReportVenezuela_1April-31July2017_EN.pdf

A truth and reparation commission has been create last year and is still working on creating exact reports for ALL the victims.

Just an outlet of the government.