[PRE-SALE][ICO] Petro $PTR - Oil backed crypto currency launched by Venezuela

[happyminer1]

So Venezuelans can not have Petros, because they do not sell them in Bs, do they have to buy Dollars at the price of a black dollar to access that token? Everything is very badly done ...

I'm afraid you are right. For common Venezuelans, yes, there is practically no other way. I strongly recommend Venezuelans who don't have other ways to access hard currencies not to invest in petros now.

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[coinve]

So Venezuelans can not have Petros, because they do not sell them in Bs, do they have to buy Dollars at the price of a black dollar to access that token? Everything is very badly done ...

I'm afraid you are right. For common Venezuelans, yes, there is practically no other way. I strongly recommend Venezuelans who don't have other ways to access hard currencies not to invest in petros now.

false.

[LUCKMCFLY]

So Venezuelans can not have Petros, because they do not sell them in Bs, do they have to buy Dollars at the price of a black dollar to access that token? Everything is very badly done ...

I'm afraid you are right. For common Venezuelans, yes, there is practically no other way. I strongly recommend Venezuelans who don't have other ways to access hard currencies not to invest in petros now.

false.

If it's false, give me the price in Bs of 1 petro then, and tell me where they sell it.

[taseenb]

Update 3-24-18:

1. Maduro announced on the 22nd that from the next day on it would be possible to buy directly through the website www.elpetro.gob.ve petros in yuan, ruble, Turkish lira, euro, ethereum, bitcoin and xem.
2. Still today there isn’t any possibility to indicate on that webpage that you want to buy petros in ruble, Turkish lira or xem. The only options continue to be dollar, euro, yuan, bitcoin and ethereum.
3. There is no way to buy petros directly through the website. You can indicate the maximum amount you want to spent on petros in the currency selected and then, hopefully, will receive one day information on how and where to transfer your money and on how you will receive your petros.
4. Just today the Nem account was updated with a new mosaic “ico” which informs us that “You will receive Petro at the end of ICO.” According to the white paper the ICO will end when “the Petros of the first emission are exhausted”.
5. The description of the new mosaic “ico” also informs, that it cannot be moved, contradicting the fact that it was created as transferable.
6. Maduro announced that the possibility to buy petros directly on the indicated website will last 15 days, but that this time might be prolonged. Given the fact next week public employees in Venezuela will not work, one should expect a prolongation.
7. The white paper is seriously out of date: There was no sale of tokens PETRO:PRESALE during “pre-sale”, there will be no way to exchange those tokens for petros VE:PTR.

More desperate FUD.

The guy wants to buy Petros so bad that he can't wait.
It's just a matter of time. They are verifying documents. In a few days people will be able to buy Petros.

[taseenb]

If it's false, give me the price in Bs of 1 petro then, and tell me where they sell it.

Petros is not obviously sold in Bs. Venezuelans can buy in dollars or bitcoins or will get Petros later from payments in the market (shops, work, etc). Venezuelans must get the benefits,, not the cost.

[taseenb]

If, and i say if, the venezuelan people will use this Petro, it's gonna be a huge thing!

Exactly. That's why anti-chavistas and Americans are getting crazy.

[happyminer1]

Missing offers

OK, Maduro “informed” on 5th of March about the number of certified offers and their composition. On 22nd of March he did the same, and no surprise, the number went up, from 186.306 to 200.927. The surprise comes if we look at the composition:

	3-5-18	22-5-18
dollar	41%	52,7%
yuan	0,3%	22,59%
euro	6,5%	15,9%
bitcoin	34%	0,7%
ethereum	17,9%	7,9%

The percentage of offers in bitcoin went down from 34% to 0,7% and of offers in ethereum from 17,9% to 7,9%!

Translated into absolute numbers the number of certified offers in bitcoin went down from 61304 to 1406 (!) and in ethereum from 32275 to 15873. While the total number of offers went up by 20621, there are now 59899 offers less in bitcoins than there were certified offers in bitcoins on March 5!

Perhaps the percentages are not about the number of offers, but about the amount offered? This would mean that as of 22nd of March a total of only 35,175 million dollars was offered in bitcoins. Assuming that up to 5th of March half the total amount of more than 5 billions was offered, around 820 million dollars of certified offers in bitcoins would have disappeared!

[happyminer1]

If it's false, give me the price in Bs of 1 petro then, and tell me where they sell it.

Petros is not obviously sold in Bs. Venezuelans can buy in dollars or bitcoins or will get Petros later from payments in the market (shops, work, etc). Venezuelans must get the benefits,, not the cost.

If they don't have dollars or bitcoins they have to buy them at or even above the black market rate.

At the moment of this writing one can buy 1 bitcoin for 2.154.119.265,53 Bs or 8.811,52 dollars. (Implying an exchange rate of 244.466,25 Bs/$, well above the black market rate of 235.002,77.) Assuming a – non-guaranteed – discount of 10%, one petro would cost according to the table of the white paper 54 dollars or 54/8.811,52 bitcoins or  54/8.811,52*2.154.119.265,53 = 13.201.177,58 Bs. That’s more than ten times the monthly minimum wage including food stamps.

[coinve]

If it's false, give me the price in Bs of 1 petro then, and tell me where they sell it.

i'm not gonna waste my time trying to explain different ways
that a venezuelan will buy or obtain Petros.
it's not my problem if you don't see it.

you're not seeing what it's coming.
if everything goes fine, Petro will become soon a national/official/local currency in Venezuela.
an European has to buy Euros?

[STT]

54 dollars would be roughly in the region of the oil barrel price which its supposed to be.  Is the monthly wage (minimum) now 5 dollars, that would make most people unable to carry on living.   Even in India the poorest make more then a dollar a day for a while now, as I understand it anyway.      Sounds like an uncertain situation.

However the oil price has been rising recently, I think it was upto 66 dollars.    That helps make the petro link look cheap, an increased discount in theory presuming it has a relation to oil purchases I guess


Spotted this commentary which explains there is no cap to the amount of petro produced

[LUCKMCFLY]

If it's false, give me the price in Bs of 1 petro then, and tell me where they sell it.

i'm not gonna waste my time trying to explain different ways
that a venezuelan will buy or obtain Petros.
it's not my problem if you don't see it.

you're not seeing what it's coming.
if everything goes fine, Petro will become soon a national/official/local currency in Venezuela.
an European has to buy Euros?

If it is as you say it seems good! But, remember that they are going to make a monetary conversion where the zeros are going to be removed, here the fiat currency is still used, if everything is migrated to digital with petros, it changes the panorama a bit, they have to be reporting more, there is a lot of misinformation, remember if they use NEM technology they can easily track it, if they made the currency more anonymous it would be different, remember that privacy and anonymity are important, there are many interesting projects where they can learn from their technology like Monero, DeepOnion, where it is impossible to track.

[alemacgo]

Update 3-24-18:
4. Just today the Nem account was updated with a new mosaic “ico” which informs us that “You will receive Petro at the end of ICO.” According to the white paper the ICO will end when “the Petros of the first emission are exhausted”.

The number of different tokens in control of the Venezuelan government is baffling. Why use four different tokens? I can't think of any other reason than to confuse and deceive.

By the way, the "petro presale transfer" token has mutable supply, which means the government is technically capable of printing it as fast and recklessly as they have printed the hyperinflationary bolívar.

Official sources: http://chain.nem.ninja/#/mosaic/a67bed551238d970be7cdd8305fbcfbdb8dd8e5224473e18281220b234006eb8/0
https://blog.nem.io/maing-namespaces-and-mosaics/

Do you know how the bolívar is doing now?

https://i.imgur.com/iAqt43j.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PIJvMVO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YB5f31u.jpg

The government also claims the ICO has started, but no tokens have moved from the central addresses. This is just another indicator of a scam.
http://explorer.nemchina.com/#/s_account?account=NCGBBZKOTERO3EXMPPCNDNDXZQQJXBEMWWO7MB66

[alemacgo]

54 dollars would be roughly in the region of the oil barrel price which its supposed to be.  Is the monthly wage (minimum) now 5 dollars, that would make most people unable to carry on living.

A barrel of Venezuelan extra-heavy oil isn't worth $60 even if it's already loaded on a ship. I recommend this article to understand why the oil backing is false: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZYnqn75y-eIJ:https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/02/27/petro-truly-backed-oil-reserves/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[alemacgo]

[NEWS] Traki, Venezuelan brand of stores that sell house products, is already showing signs to say that they’ll accept Petros.
This could sound irrelevant, but a large company is using the Petro as promotional marketing (because Petro is not even available yet).

The owners of Traki are linked to the Venezuelan government. In 2016, Traki was the only store that offered products like diapers at international price. Back then, people couldn't find them anywhere else because the government shut down any other store that tried to sell them above their approved, fixed price. They allowed Traki a monopoly over diapers and graciously looked the other way.

Traki is now taking dollars and euros as payment:
http://cronica.uno/en-tiendas-traki-aceptan-dolares-y-euros-en-efectivo-como-forma-de-pago/

But it's not taking petros yet, as the ICO hasn't happened:
https://twitter.com/maryorinmendez/status/976848847057104896

[STT]

The government used a 20% recovery rate on those resources to calculate proven reserves when, in fact, recovery rates in the Oil Strip are much lower (6-8% in the most productive blocks), Ayacucho 1 being one of the blocks with the lowest expected productivity. The actual proven reserves are, at most, half of the 5,342 million barrels reported

That document seems a fair discussion of the likely support to Petro or the government generally.    Its very common to read in company reports and oil exploration of recovery rates being difficult to obtain.    I'm not especially surprised to read this as it explains the general situation and disparity between the worlds richest oil country and the struggle to survive financially.    Every economy has this fight for efficiency at its heart that is challenged by half a dozen different factors, not just other oil fields around the world but energy in general is being developed to contest the viability of difficult recovery of heavy oil like this.

This volume placed Canadian proven reserves second in the world behind those of Saudi Arabia.

For reference of this ongoing dynamic: mention of Canadian tar oil reserves, also very challenging recovery vs Venezuela - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Estimated_oil_reserves

[foroplus]

you're not seeing what it's coming.
if everything goes fine, Petro will become soon a national/official/local currency in Venezuela.
an European has to buy Euros?

For the first time, you're very right dude.
Yes, we're not seeing what it's coming because everything has to go veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy fineeeeeeeeeeeeee if the Petro gains the necessary traction to become the currency of we don't know where. I have not enough "y"s to imagine the ideal, perfect and pink environment to make this happen.
And no, in Europe we don't have to buy € because we have a lot of them, as we live in a normal economy in which € floods all aspects of our society, from the Norwegian North pole to the southernmost tip of Malta or Cyprus.

[coinve]

a venezuelan store called traki that blah blah blah...
¿who cares? that only concern to the venezuelan people living in Venezuela.

And no, in Europe we don't have to buy € because we have a lot of them.

you see? it was easy.
you just have to use your brain a little more than your normal use.

as we live in a normal economy

yeah, right, normal economy, that's why we are talking about cryptocurrencies right now, because the "normal economy".

[happyminer1]

Is the monthly wage (minimum) now 5 dollars, that would make most people unable to carry on living.   Even in India the poorest make more then a dollar a day for a while now, as I understand it anyway.      Sounds like an uncertain situation.

Live is very difficult for the majority of people: https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/02/21/encovi-2017/

But the ruffly 5,4 dollars per month are based on a valuation of the minimum wage according to a market exchange rate and not according to purchasing power parities. Some goods are extremely cheap in Venezuela because of subsidies. Those numbers of people living on one dollar a day you mention are based on purchasing power parities.

But again, in January 2018 the income of a family of five with two earners of a minimum wage including food allowances only would cover 9,6% basic needs! (That's based on prices in Venezuela.)

[EHEP]

I'm impressed; we seem to have an expert on petroleum favoring us with his knowledgeable advice.

[EHEP]

The government used a 20% recovery rate on those resources to calculate proven reserves when, in fact, recovery rates in the Oil Strip are much lower (6-8% in the most productive blocks), Ayacucho 1 being one of the blocks with the lowest expected productivity. The actual proven reserves are, at most, half of the 5,342 million barrels reported

That document seems a fair discussion of the likely support to Petro or the government generally.    Its very common to read in company reports and oil exploration of recovery rates being difficult to obtain.    I'm not especially surprised to read this as it explains the general situation and disparity between the worlds richest oil country and the struggle to survive financially.    Every economy has this fight for efficiency at its heart that is challenged by half a dozen different factors, not just other oil fields around the world but energy in general is being developed to contest the viability of difficult recovery of heavy oil like this.

This volume placed Canadian proven reserves second in the world behind those of Saudi Arabia.

For reference of this ongoing dynamic: mention of Canadian tar oil reserves, also very challenging recovery vs Venezuela - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Estimated_oil_reserves

This is the petroleum expert that has impressed me.