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Author Topic: What can we do to improve bitcoin?  (Read 3349 times)
wndrbr3d
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July 20, 2011, 03:02:45 AM
 #21

Inject capital into the market. Since there's a finite number of bitcoins, all capital added to the market raises the value.
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July 20, 2011, 10:01:35 PM
 #22

It just seems very difficult for bitcoin to become a widely accepted currency, but it maybe much easier to become a great investment instrument and everybody's retire fund will be stored in it in the future

Housing used to play such kind of role, but it busted: It is still something that is tangible, people lost interest after getting it. Now it shifting to gold, but due to unknow produce power of the gold, difficult to say how long it can hold people's interest

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July 20, 2011, 11:59:10 PM
 #23

It just seems very difficult for bitcoin to become a widely accepted currency,  ...

Here's my fear.  The drunks in Congress will insist on continuing their wild partying and spending and will push and pull the dollar over the cliff in spite of the best efforts of freshmen in the House.  At that point, we'll be reliving Germany's Weimar Republic.

But rather than cart their money around in wheelbarrows like the Germans did in 1923 as the value continues to drop and drop, everbody that can will probably opt to keep their money in the relative stability of bitcoin.

So there.  That's a path that could result in bitcoin being widely used for currency.  And sadly, I fear it will come to pass.

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July 21, 2011, 03:30:23 AM
 #24

I believe that we need to build the bitcoin market for it to be a success, the best way to achieve this would be having some incentive to buy/sell in bitcoins. Right now (To me at least) it seems that most people's focus is on the bitcoin's trade value for other currencies like it's a new stock exchange.

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July 21, 2011, 03:33:32 AM
 #25

It just seems very difficult for bitcoin to become a widely accepted currency,  ...

Here's my fear.  The drunks in Congress will insist on continuing their wild partying and spending and will push and pull the dollar over the cliff in spite of the best efforts of freshmen in the House.  At that point, we'll be reliving Germany's Weimar Republic.



When you look at some basic arithmetic surrounding the deficit and debt numbers, it really does *seem* like that's inevitable in the relatively short term, doesn't it? The thing is, though, there's an incredible amount of inertia to the status-quo. The US can't become Weimar Germany while we're still the world's reserve currency, and it seems highly unlikely that the dollar will be unseated in that regard until China can afford to live without us. Given that they hold a few trillion in our debt, they'll probably be relatively nice to the dollar until their GDP outstrips ours and they decide to make a play. That's going to be 15-30yrs, probably. Don't get me wrong - something's gotta give eventually; I just think we're likely to experience a GDP-sucking decade or two of moderate-high inflation, high unemployment, and high taxes for quite some time before things actually crash and burn.

As far as bitcoin is concerned, that's a great environment in which to start moving into something like bitcoin anyway.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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July 21, 2011, 03:36:24 AM
 #26

I believe that we need to build the bitcoin market for it to be a success, the best way to achieve this would be having some incentive to buy/sell in bitcoins. Right now (To me at least) it seems that most people's focus is on the bitcoin's trade value for other currencies like it's a new stock exchange.


The incentive is the fact that bitcoin transactions are easy, cheap, and quick. It's just going to take time to snowball into critical mass.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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July 21, 2011, 04:34:48 AM
 #27

I believe that we need to build the bitcoin market for it to be a success, the best way to achieve this would be having some incentive to buy/sell in bitcoins. Right now (To me at least) it seems that most people's focus is on the bitcoin's trade value for other currencies like it's a new stock exchange.


The incentive is the fact that bitcoin transactions are easy, cheap, and quick. It's just going to take time to snowball into critical mass.
Yes, while that is true (And a very good incentive indeed). There could possibly be something more promotional or exclusive associated with bitcoins that would act as a catalyst for this theoretical snowball.
Kind of like how Microsoft has exclusive software on their Xbox Live Marketplace that gets you to buy into their points system to purchase this software. (Though it really wouldn't have to be exclusively software as the drawing point)

If the bitcoin were more stable, and friendly to microtransactions ( I don't really understand fees associated with bitcoins yet, but I've heard it's a hurdle for this ) converting the Live Marketplace, or really any virtual marketplace, from points to bitcoins would be an excellent introduction for people to bitcoins.

Also: What about the physical movement of bitcoins (Like person2person in real life at stores and shit)? Is something like a cheap debit-like card that you could program your wallet address on viable?

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July 23, 2011, 10:40:21 PM
 #28

Worldwide instant and secure payment, this is by far the best character of bitcoin

There are issues need to be improved, currently it can only be used by experienced IT people

People have to learn lots of things before they can use bitcoin, so I think it will not become a widely accepted payment method, but rather suit a fraction of the people, like SDR mostly used between IMF members

I think the most interesting character of the bitcoin is its scarcity. In today's world, almost everything can be produced limitless, there are enough advanced technology to be used to produce anything. But bitcoin put a limitation on the availability, this design makes it very unique

Of course there are something that can not be produced limitless: time and job. Time, job and bitcoin, maybe they share some thing deep inside Roll Eyes


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July 24, 2011, 01:02:39 AM
 #29

I agree we need to have more people buying and selling services.  Miners please buy as many of the things that you need as possible with bitcoins before you sell off!
People have endlessly made this point, but the exchange of BTC is what makes the world go round.

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KenJackson
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July 24, 2011, 05:20:04 AM
 #30

Another thing that needs to be done is to get some publicity.

This afternoon I chanced upon a professional investor at a party and I couldn't resist--I asked him if he had ever heard of bitcoin.  He gave me the same uncertain blank look that everyone gives me when I ask.  That needs to change.


The US can't become Weimar Germany while we're still the world's reserve currency, and it seems highly unlikely that the dollar will be unseated in that regard until China can afford to live without us.

Why does it seem unlikely that the world will choose something more stable than the dollar?  I've already heard some nations are looking to standardize payments for oil in euros. 

However there seems to be growing hope that Congress will have enough spine to stop the increase in the debt limit.  Maybe they'll pull us pack from the cliff.
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July 24, 2011, 01:42:20 PM
 #31

Get Bitcoin off the grid.

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July 24, 2011, 08:39:03 PM
 #32

Since lots of old guys in the existing world will try their best to prevent bitcoin to be used or ignore it, bitcoin maybe first aiming to become a standard payment method in open source community

For a piece of good code, donation in bitcoin is much easy and fun to be done than paypal Smiley

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July 25, 2011, 01:12:23 PM
 #33

Spend em

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July 27, 2011, 03:42:46 AM
 #34

When people discuss the deflationary bias of bitcoin, I think they're implicitly comparing it to the current inflationary-biased dollar. That's not the right way to think about it.

You're talking theory.

But the comparison to the dollar is the real world, since we will continue to pay our mortgages and buy gas for our cars and food for our table with dollars for the foreseeable future.  So the comparison with the dollar is a necessity.

Including the hardware and electricity for Bitcoin. For Bitcoin to stand on its own, someone must price their Electric generation and services in Bitcoin and a hardware manufacturer must price its labor and product in bitcoin.

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July 28, 2011, 01:41:47 AM
 #35

Up until now, bitcoin price still relies on traditional exchange, and that exchange is a centralized organization, this is not a distributed method

It will be great that there is a p2p based exchange, using similar algorithm to verify the exchange of bitcoin and other currency thus decide the exchange rate

Seems this will unavoidably touch the traditional banking area, where some form of bank account transfer can not be avoid, then it will greatly defeat the necessity of bitcoin (If I have to do this through bank account transfer, why should I use bitcoin?)

But maybe there IS a way to communicate between the bitcoin world and the banking world

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July 28, 2011, 02:40:13 PM
 #36

I think we need more offline Bitcoin retailers, but to attract them we need to make payments from smartphones easy and fast.

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July 28, 2011, 05:54:13 PM
 #37

It will be great that there is a p2p based exchange

No, it wont. I love when ypeople make sure everyone knows they are an idiot.

If you want a p2p exchange, trade OTC.

Exchagnes proivide significant functionality on top of fixing a price:

* They cover the counter party risk.
* They make sure you dont even have to KNOW your counter party. Buy / sell is always with the exchange. Legallyvery easy - not a ton of contracts, and for some of us mtgox means wecan sell without paying VAT (as we sell to a japanese company).
* They handle the money side. As in fiat currency. You can not exchange, effciiently, 100 USD into BTC when you have to do so with 20 wire transfers because hey, you deal with many people.

Exchanges are a perfect place to handle all the stuff that a p2p trading system just can not. Especially the financial account capabilities are hugh if you dont want to just exchange money once. Trading would never efficiently work on a p2p network unless the fiat systems would be available for that. And they wont be - and no, not using fiat is not a chnce here, exchanging BTC with BTC is king of idiotic.

I also like I dont have to dealwith the risk of the other guy not paying, dont have to set up scrow for every 0.1 BTC transfer etc.
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July 28, 2011, 07:02:55 PM
 #38

By classical econonic models, bitcoin has lots of weakness and is still very unmature, but if we are planning the future with a worldwide currency, every existing rules could be changed given good implementation

About the defaltion spiral topic, the human nature of thinking is: If this thing is going up in value, I'm going to hold to it and wait until it gets more valuable

So, in order to counter this kind of thinking, there could be a devaluate design, say if you hold a BTC for more than 3 month, it will disappear

In tradional economy, each money is same, but in bitcoin world, each coin is not the same. So maybe there is a way to get more coin into exchange everyday, a mechanism to encourage people spend those coins, e.g. the exchanged coin goes up in value, while those not used coin will disappear one by one

A currency is of no use if it is not used to spend/investment, it should never be a way to save for the future, for each saved currency, there is corresponding reduced spending power thus bring unefficiency to economy, I have a very simple example can prove this



With all due respect this Keynesians model is flawed as everyone want's something they just need to be able to pay for it.  As prices fall spending occurs since individuals can now afford the items they want or need.

The real issue with rising and falling prices with a currency is debt.  As prices fall in an economy the debt burden is increased on the debtor as he is unable to service the debt thus we all know who ends up being the biggest debtor?  Government.   So they support your method since it increases revenue if prices are constantly going up.  Our current monetary system transfers wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich, and is mathematically unsustainable thus it will collapse eventually.

It is unlikely that anyone can help you understand that you have been hoodwinked by bankers into believing this economic witchcraft.  Finally I wish you debt based monetary lovers would admit the truth... That this system is great for cheating the masses that don't understand it at the cost of being a slave to a banker at the top of the pyramid of debt.


A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero

Congratulations I am proud of you if you take credit for bringing down America.

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence. -Napoleon Bonaparte

Since I do not believe you and your Keynesians kind are incompetent, I think you dam well know what you are doing damages society.


As the inflation proceeds and the value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.
Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.
- Your economic leader

Go sell your fraud somewhere else please!
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July 29, 2011, 09:29:37 PM
 #39

Technology gets cheeper all the time but do we hold off purchases until we die? No. Ultimately money is a means to an end and the level of savings will relate to our time preferences. Time preference for food will be high, you don't want to wait until you are close to starvation. You may put off buying a TV to get a bigger and better one later but it depends how much you want that TV now.

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