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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin going to change its inflation algorithm?  (Read 4354 times)
hugolp
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July 19, 2011, 08:16:56 AM
 #41

"The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back."

-Keynes

I'm a very patient person.

Dont give up so quickly on your trolling. This cite that has nothing to do with what anyone said is very poor even for you. You can do much better.
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cunicula
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July 19, 2011, 08:21:03 AM
 #42

Well lets implement your awesome new variant. The longer we delay in doing so the longer the world will remain deprived of its advantages.

So far we have at least done the constant creating of coins part, in GRouPcoin, which will keep making 50 coins per block forever.

-MarkM-


I'll post a blog to describe the specifications soon.

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bitterness
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July 19, 2011, 08:26:45 AM
 #43

Thus, extremely rapid price inflation is a serious risk to anyone accepting payment in bitcoin.

More so it's the risk of anyone holding significant shares of their assets or get their earnings in Bitcoin. They have to eat at some point, the eventual deflation later on doesnt help.

I know. But isn't the reason for the rapid price inflation that there's simply a lot of coins are being produced right now? Inflation is like 40% per year. This will eventually change, of course, as the 50 coins per 10 minutes become a smaller and smaller part of the total pool (and when the mining payouts get reduced to 25 coins).

Why is it so hard to get, that prices are not just a function of the existing money and even if they would, Bitcoin won't be the only currency on this planet.

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July 19, 2011, 11:43:54 AM
 #44

the change described in the above paragraph may be a hard sell

I edited the wiki to explain how such a revision could technically be possible but why realistically it likely would not occur.

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July 19, 2011, 12:46:19 PM
 #45

I'll put it this way.

Immediately after bitcoin algo is changed significantly with regard to inflation/deflation properties, the blockhain will be split. I will use the partition which uses current algo, lots of other people will do so too.

Inflationista funboys are free to stay in their inflationary reservation currency. On a positive note, they might get their own forum than.

You know what is the principal difference between inflationary and deflationary currencies? Inflationary currencies facilitate transfer of wealth from children to parents, while deflationary ones facilitate transfer of wealth from parents to children. I, personally, prefer to empower my children instead of robbing them.

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cunicula
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July 19, 2011, 01:03:53 PM
 #46

You guys are really ridiculous. Does it matter if my proposal is also deflationary and offers better protection against inflationary risk than bitcoin?
Do  you need to make an argument to show that it is inflationary or is it sufficient to just state this?

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Vladimir
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July 19, 2011, 01:09:51 PM
 #47

Than you are going to have to fight "it ain't broken do not fix it" argument.

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cunicula
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July 19, 2011, 01:10:58 PM
 #48

Than you are going to have to fight "it ain't broken do not fix it" argument.


That is completely true. It is an uphill battle.

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hugolp
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July 19, 2011, 02:18:56 PM
 #49

I'll put it this way.

Immediately after bitcoin algo is changed significantly with regard to inflation/deflation properties, the blockhain will be split. I will use the partition which uses current algo, lots of other people will do so too.

Inflationista funboys are free to stay in their inflationary reservation currency. On a positive note, they might get their own forum than.

You know what is the principal difference between inflationary and deflationary currencies? Inflationary currencies facilitate transfer of wealth from children to parents, while deflationary ones facilitate transfer of wealth from parents to children. I, personally, prefer to empower my children instead of robbing them.

I hope this happens soon so we can point out at an example of a currency not working when someone proposes the same idea.

Unfortunatelly he is a troll and wont do anything (hopefully Im wrong).
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July 19, 2011, 02:36:50 PM
 #50

Indeed, for last 6 month I am offering every inflation proponent to fork bitcoin and create inflatocoin and so far not a single attempt, not even a hint.

They do talk the talk but they do not walk the walk. Do we have to fork the inflatocoin for them?

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July 19, 2011, 02:40:51 PM
 #51

Indeed, for last 6 month I am offering every inflation proponent to fork bitcoin and create inflatocoin and so far not a single attempt, not even a hint.

They do talk the talk but they do not walk the walk. Do we have to fork the inflatocoin for them?


Heh, Vladimir, it's not worth the effort... if someone truly wants an inflationary currency I can give them hundreds of them, starting with the USD.

It's fascinating how some people fail to grasp the fundamentals of bitcoin... not a day goes by without someone suggesting "let's make it inflationary", "let's peg it to the dollar", "let's build a central authority for it"... some of these people are trolls, others are just infected with memes that won't let go.

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July 19, 2011, 02:53:38 PM
 #52

To be fair, Bitcoin is a complex concept. there is crypto, there is economics, there is block chain, there is proof of work, there is mining subsidy, there is fee mechanism given to free market to regulate, etc...

They say human brain can hold only so much information in quick access memory (RAM). I would guess that some people are just not capable to grasp the concept instantly due to large number of intertwined components of bitcoin ecosystem (brain swapping their "RAM" to somewhere).

It took me a week of reading and thinking to grasp Bitcoin concept and see how ingenious and elegant it is. However, I have my INTP intuition which told me that this may worth the effort, just based on quick read of Satoshi's paper.

Some may not put in such an effort to "get" it and simply reject what they do not understand.

Many once discover Bitcoin try to find a way to improve it, by changing some of the fundamental properties somehow. I did that too in the beginning, but I gave up on it long ago.




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cunicula
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July 19, 2011, 03:56:46 PM
 #53

You guys are really ridiculous. Does it matter if my proposal is also deflationary and offers better protection against inflationary risk than bitcoin?
Do  you need to make an argument to show that it is inflationary or is it sufficient to just state this?

Okay answer to the above is clear. Should I take that to mean that you can't find a flaw in the proposal? I would really prefer constructive criticism to ad hominem attacks. Would love to make my idea better but need help from people willing and able to exercise their brains.

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July 19, 2011, 06:16:09 PM
 #54

What Vladimir said.
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July 19, 2011, 06:22:54 PM
 #55

Why is it so hard to get, that prices are not just a function of the existing money and even if they would, Bitcoin won't be the only currency on this planet.
Huh? I don't think I ever said that I believe that. I just proposed an alternative coin generation scheme for CuniculaCoin.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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July 19, 2011, 06:45:39 PM
 #56

You guys are really ridiculous. Does it matter if my proposal is also deflationary and offers better protection against inflationary risk than bitcoin?
Do  you need to make an argument to show that it is inflationary or is it sufficient to just state this?

Okay answer to the above is clear. Should I take that to mean that you can't find a flaw in the proposal? I would really prefer constructive criticism to ad hominem attacks. Would love to make my idea better but need help from people willing and able to exercise their brains.

I can see one flaw.  It is pointless.

I know you aren't looking for more ad hominem arguments, so I won't say that the whole proof-of-stake concept is stupid, but I will say that you are suggesting massive changes, making the system vastly more complicated than it is already, and threatening pretty much all of the key features that everyone (nearly everyone) likes about the current system.

And for essentially no real gain that I can see.  The only gain I can see is to you personally.  Not that I think you stand to profit from the new system necessarily, but personally in the sense that you seem to have a subjective preference for this convoluted and ridiculous system over the simple one that we already have.  And I mean ridiculous as a mere statement of fact that it has been ridiculed, not as a value judgment.

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July 19, 2011, 08:06:27 PM
 #57


Bitcoin is currently a super inflationary currency so there is no need for a new version yet if you like inflation.

After reading more I also came to the conclusion I was wrong and a deflationary currency might actually be the fix
we need in addition to the other superb qualities of bitcoin.

The only reason to add a very small inflation might be to give the miners more incentive in the future.
Nobody seems to agree what will happen when the majority of funding for miners comes from fees.

However this sort of group behaviour  is near impossible to predict.
It's pointless to swap out one unknown future with another, so for now just let it be.


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July 19, 2011, 08:19:30 PM
 #58

Indeed, for last 6 month I am offering every inflation proponent to fork bitcoin and create inflatocoin and so far not a single attempt, not even a hint.

They do talk the talk but they do not walk the walk. Do we have to fork the inflatocoin for them?


Actually GRouPcoin keeps pouring out 50 coins per block forever so all those who want inflatacoin can come on over there its already up and running.

-MarkM-

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July 19, 2011, 08:50:50 PM
 #59

"The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back."

-Keynes


This is, beyond doubt, the most ironic (and accurate) statement that Keynes ever made concerning his own field of study.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 19, 2011, 08:57:21 PM
 #60

You guys are really ridiculous. Does it matter if my proposal is also deflationary and offers better protection against inflationary risk than bitcoin?
Do  you need to make an argument to show that it is inflationary or is it sufficient to just state this?

On it's initial presentation, it appears potentially deflationary.  The problem that I have with it, already, is that it is an even more complex algo than Bitcoin presently uses, which has many co-dependent parts that function together.  You're algo may appear functional, and may even be functional for decades, but the odds of a more complex algo resulting in a failure of many sorts is increased even over Bitcoin, which again is not a small risk.  On it's face, I think that I can see a potential method of exploitation of the algo, so that the results are ever inflationary.  Could still be better than fiat currencies, but I doubt that it's going to be better than Bitcoin's highly predictable algo.  It's that kernal of doubt that will prevent me, and others, from seriously considering it.  Ever.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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