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Author Topic: Your child brings this letter home from school...  (Read 6325 times)
Anonymous
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July 19, 2011, 04:43:27 AM
 #1

Dear Mr. Doe,

You may already know this, but in case your son has neglected to tell you, I am assigning him to detention for one hour this Friday, April 22nd. The reason is as follows:

Alex consistently defied me. During class he contradicted me numerous time when I insisted that the length of one kilometer was greater than that of one mile. Every other student in class accepted my lesson without argument, but your son refused to believe what I told him, throwing such rebuttals as, "You're lying to the class," and commanding other students to challenge my curriculum.

Although he was correct, your son's actions show a blatant disregard for authority, and a complete lack of respect for his school. In the future, your son would be better off simply accepting my teachings without resistance.

Please see to it that your son understand this.

Sarah Derpkins


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July 19, 2011, 04:50:54 AM
 #2

Sounds familair, i had a teacher appoligize once for giving me detention back in 4th grade. She was getting all pissy about why everyone doesn't do there home work and asked the first 4 people see layed eyes on and asked why they didn't do there home work... the first two replied with serious ones like I didn't have time becuase of baseball practice, or somthing like that; The 3rd one said "My dog ate it" to be funny of course i was the 4th and Honest Xenland Me i replied with "I just don't feel like" and she point towards the door and said GET OUT OF MY CLASS, i got a detention and after school detention... later that day the teacher appoligize becuase she realized i was the only honest one....

I say congradulate the kid for showing authority of "The Truth"
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July 19, 2011, 05:09:02 AM
 #3

Congratulate your kid, pick him up early before detention to get some icecream or somthing; and write to the school asking for some punishment for the teacher for trying to teach the students wrong things and trying to punish students for his/her own mistakes.

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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July 19, 2011, 05:17:18 AM
 #4

What do you do?
Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.

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July 19, 2011, 05:19:58 AM
 #5

Congratulate the child (I see a trend here)

Have him do his time, and then take him out to Pizza. While he's in detention, he is not to do any homework, or anything remotely 'productive'. If he can sneek a book or something in, even better.

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July 19, 2011, 05:38:22 AM
 #6

Mock the teacher for being called "Mrs.DERPkins"

Congratulate the kid

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July 19, 2011, 05:51:51 AM
 #7

i'd keep him home from school that day and lock him inside the closet all day with the two ferrets- then call the school telling them it'd been dealt with.

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July 19, 2011, 08:44:27 AM
 #8

What do you do?
Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.
Cheesy


I like how Atlas is on a "it's for the kids" kick. It's amusing to watch the debates that happen.
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July 19, 2011, 01:29:27 PM
 #9

What do you do?
Firstly I try to figure out if my kid is trying to fool me with some stupid prank letter. If it turns out to be real then I would get into contact with the school and demand to know why they are teaching my son false information. Then I would continue on with some massive rant about thinking for ones self and learning to question everything you are told, even if it comes from so called authoritative figures. It's a good thing I don't want kids.

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July 19, 2011, 01:36:52 PM
 #10

Just because you're right, doesn't mean arguing with the teacher during class is the wisest thing.

What would be so bad about knowing you're right, but not saying anything?

I'd tell the kid that he's right, but that there's a time and place for arguing one's case and it's not always best to do it immediately, and so publicly.

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July 19, 2011, 01:42:16 PM
 #11

Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.
Although they will probably badmouth the teacher as being Anti-american for using kilometers in the first place. Real americans should not learn about these things or the terrorists will have already won.

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July 19, 2011, 02:00:30 PM
 #12

You do realise the letter that this entire thing comes from was photoshopped to show a teacher in bad light, correct?


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July 19, 2011, 02:02:27 PM
 #13

Quote
Although he was correct, your son's actions show a blatant disregard for authority, and a complete lack of respect for his school. In the future, your son would be better off simply accepting my teachings without resistance.
It is absolutely ridiculous! Why he need to accept bullshit just because his teacher has fiat authority? Answer hardly to this letter. These people can cause science collapse in your country, think about future!

P.S. If it would happened in Latvia, this teacher will be immediately fired and she probably lost qualification (that mean never able to work as teacher again).
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July 19, 2011, 02:13:35 PM
 #14

I would get into contact with the school and demand to know why they are teaching my son false information.

You do realize you'd be calling your (public) school every other day, right?  Cheesy
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July 19, 2011, 03:10:27 PM
 #15

I would get into contact with the school and demand to know why they are teaching my son false information.

You do realize you'd be calling your (public) school every other day, right?  Cheesy
Hahaha. Yeah...that's one of the reasons I don't want kids. I don't have time to home school a child, although it would probably be kind of fun for a while...so I'd have to send the kid to a public school (since private schools have proven to be a waste of money imo and full of rich kids who take everything for granted). I've thought about becoming a teacher too, but I don't think I would last very long. Cheesy

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July 19, 2011, 03:48:28 PM
 #16

I would question the authenticity of the letter, and contact the teachers to verify it first. Teachers usually know what the hell they're talking about, usually having earned a teaching degree and have studied the topic they were hired to teach in depth.

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July 19, 2011, 04:00:05 PM
 #17

Professor in a "Social Deviance" class went off one day:

"So how many of you go to Bar X every Friday night? <show of hands> Considering this city is only about 30% study body and by those hands I see only about 50% of those go to Bar X then about 15% or less of the General Populace feels going and getting drunk at Bar X is normal behavior so that makes those 15%, and you that raised your hands, social deviants.

I do however thank you deviants because by being deviants you keep all the cops busy on that side of town so I can take my Porsche out and speed around the mountain roads."

<ME> Professor there are only about 20-30 Porsche in this town, of those your the only one I know that waits for Friday night to go racing around, doesn't that make you the deviant?"

Class laughed, Professor side stepped, I got a C.

Sometimes planning your attack for a later date is the better solution, timing is everything they say? Hey I had an @##hole teacher in HS and I let him be that butt the entire year but when he tried to give me a D at the end of the year I had every test, every graded homework assignment and my entire family met with administration showing the work was completed the grade should be a B- and didn't the Administration find it interesting all the girls in the class got A's? That teacher was not there the next year.

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July 19, 2011, 04:07:13 PM
 #18

Just because you're right, doesn't mean arguing with the teacher during class is the wisest thing.

What would be so bad about knowing you're right, but not saying anything?

I'd tell the kid that he's right, but that there's a time and place for arguing one's case and it's not always best to do it immediately, and so publicly.

What would be so good about allowing an entire classroom full of kids to be taught something incorrect when it could have been stopped? I've seen this "letter home" before, it's on snopes and it's gone around in emails a lot. I don't remember whether snopes said it was verifiable or not but whether this instance is true or not, I know firsthand that this sort of thing happens.

I've actually done this, though I didn't get punished for it. I almost got punished for it once (9th grade biology class) but I cordially reminded the instructor that science isn't about respectfulness or minding elders, it's about finding the answers that mesh best with observed reality and that part of the scientific process is publishing your work for others to point out when you've made a dumb mistake because we ALL make dumb mistakes.

It's hard for a science instructor to punish you for following the scientific process rigorously.
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July 19, 2011, 05:14:08 PM
 #19

I'd explain my kid my perception of the situation...

School is not made to learn stuff, it's to get a diploma to give you access to better job in the future.

It's important to know the truth, but don't lose track of your objectives. Learn to play the game and get good grade. When you have your diploma in hand, then fell free to tell your teacher what a moron he really is.

I'm more a Peter Keating than a Howard Roark Cheesy

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July 19, 2011, 06:51:28 PM
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I'd explain my kid my perception of the situation...

School is not made to learn stuff, it's to get a diploma to give you access to better job in the future.

It's important to know the truth, but don't lose track of your objectives. Learn to play the game and get good grade. When you have your diploma in hand, then fell free to tell your teacher what a moron he really is.

I'm more a Peter Keating than a Howard Roark Cheesy

Actually I perceive High School as the Slave Indoctrination Camp. We will give you enough education so you can be of service to the powers that run this country but not so educated that you question their right to rule. While you get that education you are totally indoctrinated into what is permissible, what is expected, and what is not.

College is little better.

Shut Up Slave....
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July 19, 2011, 06:58:40 PM
 #21

There are significant differences between learning and just plain memorizing; unfortunatly more and more the schools and similar teaching entities have been ignoring the distinction...

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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July 19, 2011, 07:14:15 PM
 #22

School is not made to learn stuff, it's to get a diploma to give you access to better job in the future.

I would explain to them that school is mostly to teach you what there is to learn about, with maybe some guidance on where to start, but the actual learning is then done later on, on your own, on things you're actually interested in. Without going to school, likely the only things you'll ever bother with, or even be aware of learning about, are things you come across in your own life, which will likely be TV shows and fast food :/

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July 19, 2011, 09:51:20 PM
 #23

School is not made to learn stuff, it's to get a diploma to give you access to better job in the future.

 are things you come across in your own life, which will likely be TV shows and fast food :/

If you have poor parents that don't give a damn without a book in sight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awOAmTaZ4XI

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July 19, 2011, 10:03:39 PM
 #24

Have you thought of sending your kid to a different school? l hope you don't send your kid to public school...I would congratulate my kid and tell them that plenty of people have received much worse punishments than he for doing the same thing.  I would hope that your child continues to stand up for himself in similar situations. Debate in academia is very important. Obviously the the teacher isn't used to being challenged.

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July 19, 2011, 11:08:52 PM
 #25

Tell the child "And this is why we murder people.". Tongue

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July 19, 2011, 11:21:20 PM
 #26

This would be a good opportunity to teach your child that the world is full of average people and average = dumb. While learning to recognize and discredit misinformation you hear coming out of an average person's mouth is important, you must be respectful and argue your point maturely. That is where your child failed, and the reason he should 'serve his time' as they say.

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July 19, 2011, 11:27:18 PM
 #27

Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.
Although they will probably badmouth the teacher as being Anti-american for using kilometers in the first place. Real americans should not learn about these things or the terrorists will have already won.


Wait, What?

I'm sure that I'm older than you, and I learned both American Standard and Metric in grade school.  I can use both fine, but I hate using metric, and have not felt the need to teach it to my own (homeschooled) children.  If they foresee a need to learn it, they can learn it in a couple of days, or carry a pocket reference on their trip to Euroland.

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July 19, 2011, 11:29:28 PM
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What do you do?

Send your son to a real school.

Publicly dress down the teacher, the principal and the school in general.  Hopefully in front of the kids classmates, and then announce that the son will be withdrawn and homeschooled.  And that they will be receiving a letter from your lawyer about their failure to perform with your tax funds, and that you will be expecting a refund for their wasted money.

How's that?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 19, 2011, 11:35:16 PM
 #29

it's to get a diploma to give you access to better job in the future.


Talk about failure, then.  The primary purpose of the public education system in the United States is not to educate children, nor is it to provide them a means to a job.  It's designed to indoctrinate the middle class children into the lifestyle that is consistant with mass production, and to limit their free thoughts.  This is from the founder of public education himself.  He was a true 'progressive' who believed that 'over education' of the masses can only lead to unhappiness in adulthood, since they were going to be stuck working in a factory or a refinery anyway.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 20, 2011, 12:25:20 AM
 #30

it's to get a diploma to give you access to better job in the future.


Talk about failure, then.  The primary purpose of the public education system in the United States is not to educate children, nor is it to provide them a means to a job.  It's designed to indoctrinate the middle class children into the lifestyle that is consistant with mass production, and to limit their free thoughts.  This is from the founder of public education himself.  He was a true 'progressive' who believed that 'over education' of the masses can only lead to unhappiness in adulthood, since they were going to be stuck working in a factory or a refinery anyway.

Beat ya to that one. See last post on page 1  Shocked
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July 20, 2011, 10:17:06 AM
 #31

What do you do?
Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.
Cheesy


I like how Atlas is on a "it's for the kids" kick. It's amusing to watch the debates that happen.

Another copy pasta libertarian propaganda tract. This never happened, but even if it did, the issue would be resolved between the parents and school Principal since there would be something in writing that may be actionable.

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July 20, 2011, 12:21:06 PM
 #32

I'd go in and have a chat with Ms. Derpkins.  If that didn't straighten things out, I would then talk to the principal.  If it still wasn't resolved, and I couldn't have my child switched to a different class, I would pull them out of that school and send them to another.

Don't let schools walk over your kids, if they try and pull bulllshit, just walk in there.  They're a lot less inclined to try and push adults around than they are little children, trust me.  They melt like butter when they have to face someone their own age.

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July 20, 2011, 01:10:12 PM
 #33

Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.
Although they will probably badmouth the teacher as being Anti-american for using kilometers in the first place. Real americans should not learn about these things or the terrorists will have already won.


Wait, What?

I'm sure that I'm older than you, and I learned both American Standard and Metric in grade school.  I can use both fine, but I hate using metric, and have not felt the need to teach it to my own (homeschooled) children.  If they foresee a need to learn it, they can learn it in a couple of days, or carry a pocket reference on their trip to Euroland.


Yet another reason homeschooling should be outlawed or regulated.  Knowing the metric system is a requirement for anyone of even moderate intelligence and education.  The US is the only country on earth that still uses the imperial system and the metric system is even used here for any type of science work above a elementary school level.

Regardless, you missed the point of his post.  He's making fun of Fox News for being a US propoganda outlet.

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July 20, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
 #34

Send it to Fox News. They eat that stuff right up.
Although they will probably badmouth the teacher as being Anti-american for using kilometers in the first place. Real americans should not learn about these things or the terrorists will have already won.


Wait, What?

I'm sure that I'm older than you, and I learned both American Standard and Metric in grade school.  I can use both fine, but I hate using metric, and have not felt the need to teach it to my own (homeschooled) children.  If they foresee a need to learn it, they can learn it in a couple of days, or carry a pocket reference on their trip to Euroland.


Yet another reason homeschooling should be outlawed or regulated.

It is regulated, the metric system isn't a core educational requirement in any state, nor should it be.  Try to keep your statist propoganda under wraps, you'll sound more credible.  I wouldn't want your to lose your job at the Justice Department, and then some other agent would have to monitor us.  At least I know who you are.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 20, 2011, 02:19:42 PM
 #35

Oh come on, the average home schooled child is so far ahead of the curve it's not funny.  Saying homeschooling should be banned is ridiculous.  Every method has it's problems, but the benefits of homeschooling are far beyond the costs.

Do the people arguing against the metric system believe in US exceptionalism?  I think the reason for switching to metric should be obvious to anyone who has ever tried to science.

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July 20, 2011, 04:15:16 PM
 #36

Oh come on, the average home schooled child is so far ahead of the curve it's not funny.  Saying homeschooling should be banned is ridiculous.  Every method has it's problems, but the benefits of homeschooling are far beyond the costs.

Do the people arguing against the metric system believe in US exceptionalism?  I think the reason for switching to metric should be obvious to anyone who has ever tried to science.

The reasons to learn the metric system for scientific studies is obvious, but the metric system is easy enough for a teen or an adult to learn.  Teaching it to grade school children is what makes no sense.  They have no frame of reference in which to use it.  It's like forcing them to memorize the declaration of independence.  To what end?  So they can recite it to the grands on the 4th of July?  The document exists, and can be referenced.  Rote memorization is an utter waste of educational resources, particularly time.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 20, 2011, 04:19:00 PM
 #37

I think kids measure things in school, and that is how they gain a frame of reference.  If they use a certain system the reference will be in that system.

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July 20, 2011, 06:17:05 PM
 #38

I think kids measure things in school, and that is how they gain a frame of reference.  If they use a certain system the reference will be in that system.

And they live in a nation that clings to the American Standard.  Whether or not you might think ill of that or not is irrelevant.  And teaching the American Standard isn't, and shouldn't be, a core requirement in any state either.  Kids should be taught the basics of measurement, not taught measurement systems.  They can be introduced to them, so that they are aware of the different systems, but no one really knows these kinds of things until they are old enough to need them.  Neither a kilometer nor a mile means much in the context of the average 8 year old.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 21, 2011, 12:07:37 AM
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Quote
Teaching it to grade school children is what makes no sense.

Which means an average grade school child in America
will need an IQ of 130 to be able to compute the volume
of a swimming pool in less than an afternoon worth of work.

Great idea.



I never taught my eight year old son any standards of measurements, only the functions of calculating volume, and he was able to accurately compute the internal volume of the bathtub, refrigerator and minivan in about 30 minutes.  Once a child understands the process, the next obvious question was, "how do I measure the length, Dad?"  He did it in feet, using the tape measure that his grandfather gave him for Christmas. 

Granted, my son actually does have an IQ in excess of 130, so this doesn't actually disprove your BS theorem, but I still say you're full of crap.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 21, 2011, 01:21:41 AM
 #40

Kids should be taught the basics of measurement, not taught measurement systems.  They can be introduced to them, so that they are aware of the different systems, but no one really knows these kinds of things until they are old enough to need them.  Neither a kilometer nor a mile means much in the context of the average 8 year old.

But an inch and a centimeter sure do mean a lot.  I remember sitting there in school and realizing that I could easily guess how long things were in inches, after using them for so many years.  Conversely I learned to weigh things in grams and it's very easy to estimate values when weighing. 
I understand you are saying we should have the right to learn whatever system we want, or no system at all.  I just don't see how it's possible to teach someone, say, language without them using grammar.  Why do you feel so strongly about not teaching a particular measuring system?  Are you against people teaching the standard clock, or should people decide how long they want their second to be?  I agree that people shouldn't be pushed to accept what everyone else takes for granted, but at the same time we can't communicate without common language.

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July 21, 2011, 03:10:13 AM
 #41

Kids should be taught the basics of measurement, not taught measurement systems.  They can be introduced to them, so that they are aware of the different systems, but no one really knows these kinds of things until they are old enough to need them.  Neither a kilometer nor a mile means much in the context of the average 8 year old.

But an inch and a centimeter sure do mean a lot.  I remember sitting there in school and realizing that I could easily guess how long things were in inches, after using them for so many years.  Conversely I learned to weigh things in grams and it's very easy to estimate values when weighing. 
I understand you are saying we should have the right to learn whatever system we want, or no system at all.  I just don't see how it's possible to teach someone, say, language without them using grammar.  Why do you feel so strongly about not teaching a particular measuring system?  Are you against people teaching the standard clock, or should people decide how long they want their second to be?  I agree that people shouldn't be pushed to accept what everyone else takes for granted, but at the same time we can't communicate without common language.

I teach my kids the units of measurements that they need for the problem at hand.  My son's tape measure has both a metric and a AS edge.  He could have chosen either, he chose to use the one that made the most sense to him at the time and in the context, which was a foot.  He didn't use either inches nor meters, as either unit would have been less intuitive for his problem.

To illustrate this concept, take another practicum problem that I have not yet used on my kids.  How do you weight a car, using only a pressure gauge, a pencil, a ruler and four sheets of blank paper?  The answer is that you have Dad park the car over top of the paper, trace the footprint of the tyres, and measure the tire pressures.  Then you use the ruler to make an estimate as to the area of the paper, multiply that by the pressure measurements, and add up all four results.

In AS, the pressure is Pounds-Per-Square-Inch so the paper traces are calculated in inches, and then the raw pressure measurement is multiplied.  Add them up and you are done

However, in Metric the pressure unit is the Pascal, or the Newtwon/Meter.  (No, I didn't remember that, like my own kids would do if they needed to, I simply looked it up)  So to start with one would have to measure the area in square centimeters and then convert to square meters.  Not that hard, surely, but an extra step.  Then one would have to multiply out and add up, and end up with Newtons, a unit of force instead of weight.  If the unit is wrong, the answer is wrong; so we are looking for kilograms.  To get there, we would have to involve the exceleration of gravity (2.2 m/s squared, if I recall correctly).  So the math just got way more complicated, unless the problem solver knew the shortcut that a Newton was (roughly) equal to 102 grams at Earth gravity or knew to look it up.  But why would an eight year old know that, or choose to go to the trouble?  This just illustrates what I have said about Metric in other threads, it workds well for sciences beause it was invented by scientists for their own ends.  AS appears more complicated, but is usually more practical in practice becauseit was evolved by people who freely (in most cases) choose to use those particular units.  The student should be able to use whatever unit of measurement he favors.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 21, 2011, 06:21:10 PM
 #42

I think "standards of measurement" is a pretty dumb thing to argue about when teaching your kid. I grew up on metric, came to US, was all "wtf is this foot and inch stuff?" and now after many years forgot metric. But I can always look it up.

What would concern me most is that parents, not being aware of what new knowledge is out there (without research on multiple subjects being their full time job), could be stuck teaching their children only what they themselves know. Sure, basic math, basic science, old literature, and geography don't change much, but by choosing to "not subjugate your child by letting the state decide what to teach," a homeschooling parent can inadvertently subjugate their child to what a book publisher, who write their books for state use since they're their biggest client, decides the child should learn, without an experience teacher being able to comment on current events. i.e. school or state, the only difference is method of teaching, not information (plus maybe some personal political/religious bias).
And yes, home schooled children can beat the crap out of public school children in things like basic math, science, and english, but as I said, those things don't change.  (as example, my high school science/astronomy teacher tended to go on tangents about theories of warped/limited universe and basic string theory stuff, despite it not being covered in the book, and allowed students interested in the topic to stay and discuss after class)

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July 21, 2011, 06:27:37 PM
 #43

I teach science and I love it when a student refuses to just accept what I'm saying. A good teacher would use this as an opportunity to explain how we logically determine truth. Since this teacher did not know that a mile is less than a kilometer, I bet they are not very good. Undecided

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July 21, 2011, 06:47:39 PM
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I think "standards of measurement" is a pretty dumb thing to argue about when teaching your kid. I grew up on Metric, came to us, was all "wtf is this foot and inch stuff?" and now after many years forgot metric. But I can always look it up.

What would concern me most is that parents, not being aware of what new knowledge is out there (without research on multiple subjects being their full time job), could be stuck teaching their children only what they themselves know. Sure, basic math, basic science, literature, and geography don't change much, but by choosing to "not subjugate your child by letting the state decide what to teach," a homeschooling parent can inadvertently subjugate their child to what a book publisher, that is also used by the state, decides the child should learn, without an experience teacher being able to comment on current events.
And yes, home schooled children can beat the crap out of public school children in things like basic math, science, and english, but as I said, those things don't change.  (as example, b=my high school science/astronomy teacher tended to go on tangents about theories of warped/limited universe and basic string theory stuff, despite it not being covered in the book, and allowed students interested in the topic to stay and discuss after class)

This is a common error that observers make.  Homeschooling is a misnomer, as the kids rarely stay home.  For example, my kids have art, dance and singing classes and a weekly 'co-op' set of classes taught by other parents.  I also have access to retired teachers who do contract work.  My kids took two years of Spanish from one such teacher, who formed a weekly class of about 12 homeschooled students, who then met at a local public library.  The reason that homeschoolers tend to do so well in every subject is because homeschooled children are taught how to think far better than that can be developed as a skill in a large classroom setting.  The only professional skills that teachers are taught, that other college graduagtes are not, are the skills of crowd management and child psychology, which are both neccessary when dealling with 30+ children for hours each day that you don't know in a familiar way.  Institutional educations is profoundly efficient, but that does not mean that it's more effective.

While I might not be able to teach my own children how to play a piano, I still have far more access to those who can than the average public schooled child or his parents.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 21, 2011, 06:54:17 PM
 #45

The child should be commended for thinking for himself.  I am in a graduate-level social work program, and I often find myself taking the role of both child and parent in the classroom on a regular basis.  I have probably challenged every professor at least a dozen times for misinformation, hypocrisy, blatant contradictions, etc.  I have found that there are upsides and downsides to this.  Perhaps the greatest downside is that you can become marginalized -- it seems the vast majority of people do not challenge anything and they will often see you as a troublemaker with a chip on the shoulder.  At the beginning of the 2nd semester last year, I had a professor tell me that I was already well-known by all the professors at the college (and not in a good way) because I would consistently challenge/question anything that I couldn't accept based upon prima facie evidence.  On the other hand, by continuously challenging the material, I felt as though I had a much deeper understanding of it than my fellow classmates did.  I used to simply accept things that authority figures told me, and, even though I had always gotten good grades, I had to work much harder.  Now, because I have habituated myself to question everything, I maintain a 4.0 without breaking a sweat -- learning has become fun, and not work.  In fact, if I were to suddenly receive anything less than a 4.0, I'd feel that I devolved to a monkey or something.  School is ridiculously easy if you can get outside the cognitive box they try to force you into.  On that note, not every authority is to be respected.  Competent authority is to be respected.  Teaching can be a noble profession, but teaching misinformation is not noble.  Give the kid a lollipop.

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July 21, 2011, 06:56:48 PM
 #46

The reason that homeschoolers tend to do so well in every subject is because homeschooled children are taught how to think far better than that can be developed as a skill in a large classroom setting.

Bah! "Thinking" is for college/university grads. We only need high school diploma types for things like fast food and assembly line work.

BTW, sounds like your "home schooling" is actually a distributed version of private schooling/tutoring. I'd even go so far as to say "my children are taught by private tutors we hire," since "homeschool" suggests the parents keep their kids at home, and tech them themselves in their own garages, from material they either picked themselves, or were provided by their church/political cult.
I'm all for private tutoring, if you can afford it, btw.

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July 21, 2011, 07:49:54 PM
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The reason that homeschoolers tend to do so well in every subject is because homeschooled children are taught how to think far better than that can be developed as a skill in a large classroom setting.

Bah! "Thinking" is for college/university grads. We only need high school diploma types for things like fast food and assembly line work.


Yeah, and that is exactly how the public education system is designed.  To provided the education levels necessary to get by working for someone else.  That's why the wealthy don't send their kids to public schools.

Quote

BTW, sounds like your "home schooling" is actually a distributed version of private schooling/tutoring. I'd even go so far as to say "my children are taught by private tutors we hire," since "homeschool" suggests the parents keep their kids at home, and tech them themselves in their own garages, from material they either picked themselves, or were provided by their church/political cult.


Well, homeschooling varies dramticly along that kind of scale.  I've never encountered the much feared 'church/political cult' type homeschool family, and seriously doubt that they even really exist in any non-trivial amount.  My wife & I did start out with choosing our materials ourselves, but that is a lot of work.  For the past several years we have opted to pay the money for a packaged curriculum that we think highly of, that is a derivitive of literature based education theory. (http://www.sonlight.com/aboutus.html)  Yes, it's Christian.  No, that's not the overwelming focus.  I have seen such systems that have to have a bible reference for every single lesson, which is kind of superfluous when one is trying to recreate Newton's apple drop lesson on gravity.

Quote

I'm all for private tutoring, if you can afford it, btw.

If you're primarily homeschooling, a few focused classes with professional tutors or co-ops isn't terriblely expensive.  Far less expensive than the $12K per year per child that the state spends on public education.  All totalled, with the yearly packaged curriculium and the money we spend for coops, group classes, tutored classes and a few museum trips each year; I'd say that I spend about $8K per year for all my kids.  I could probably afford private school with that (my parents did for myself and my siblings) but homeschooling works well for us.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 21, 2011, 08:02:41 PM
 #48

All totalled, with the yearly packaged curriculium and the money we spend for coops, group classes, tutored classes and a few museum trips each year; I'd say that I spend about $8K per year for all my kids. 

Sadly, that is a ridiculously high amount for a lot of people. Especially if you have 2 or 3 kids. But, I guess the answer to that is "PRIORITIES!!!"

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July 21, 2011, 08:06:29 PM
 #49

But, I guess the answer to that is "PRIORITIES!!!"

If your boat is more important than your child's education, then public school really is the best place for them anyway.  At least then they would actually have a decent chance of getting a decent education.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 21, 2011, 08:07:26 PM
 #50

All totalled, with the yearly packaged curriculium and the money we spend for coops, group classes, tutored classes and a few museum trips each year; I'd say that I spend about $8K per year for all my kids. 

Sadly, that is a ridiculously high amount for a lot of people. Especially if you have 2 or 3 kids. But, I guess the answer to that is "PRIORITIES!!!"

That's ridiculously high if they have one kid. for - 3 , I think it was - It's a damn fine deal.

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July 21, 2011, 09:04:52 PM
 #51

All totalled, with the yearly packaged curriculium and the money we spend for coops, group classes, tutored classes and a few museum trips each year; I'd say that I spend about $8K per year for all my kids. 

Sadly, that is a ridiculously high amount for a lot of people. Especially if you have 2 or 3 kids. But, I guess the answer to that is "PRIORITIES!!!"

That's ridiculously high if they have one kid. for - 3 , I think it was - It's a damn fine deal.

Oh, wait, I misread that at 48k per kid. I take that back, sorry. Does seem pretty cheap.

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July 21, 2011, 09:18:21 PM
 #52

What do you do?

Increase his allowance.
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July 21, 2011, 09:21:46 PM
 #53

What do you do?

Increase his allowance.

Ha! +1.

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July 21, 2011, 09:26:06 PM
 #54

What do you do?

Increase his allowance.

SOCIALIST!

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July 22, 2011, 01:33:01 AM
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Since this teacher did not know that a mile is less than a kilometer, I bet they are not very good. Undecided

I hope you were kidding.

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July 22, 2011, 01:35:27 AM
 #56

Since this teacher did not know that a mile is less than a kilometer, I bet they are not very good. Undecided

I hope you were kidding.


Kidding, or dyslexic.

I do that sort of thing all the time. I've learned to double check my work.

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July 22, 2011, 06:59:58 AM
 #57

Yet another reason homeschooling should be outlawed or regulated.  Knowing the metric system is a requirement for anyone of even moderate intelligence and education.  The US is the only country on earth that still uses the imperial system and the metric system is even used here for any type of science work above a elementary school level.

Regardless, you missed the point of his post.  He's making fun of Fox News for being a US propoganda outlet.
Not necessarily. They are an extreme-right-wing-Republican't propaganda outlet. But it serves internal purposes only, it's not like they care that much about the world that they would try to shape our opinion about the US in any way. After 9/11 maybe, you could get FNC for free on several European satellites, but then they found out that their tactics don't work and people would still prefer CNN International.

Homeschooling is actually outlawed over here and not many people complain about it. In fact, it's said that although the selection process is unfair and too early (basically your child's future is determined by their performance in 4th grade), it's because it's a multipartite school system that there are not that many private schools. You can send your kid to a school that has the right profile for you, be it scientific or linguistical or whatever.

I agree that little children might be overwhelmed by the Metric system when all they know is that they are 4 feet tall. But that's why the US has finally switch to the evil Metric system. C'mon, if America Jr. (Canada) could pull it off, you can too! In fact, you did it already! I came across something called the Metric Conversion Act, but that only applies to trade and commerce.
It might be more "intuitive" to use the system you grew up with, but calculating in US customary units is just hellish. Or can you tell me how I can convert a quarter mile into yards easily? My navigation system displays yards but the road signs are in fractions of a mile, oh my.

On the other hand, I still want to be able to order a "footlong" at Subway and not a "30 centimeter long" submarine-shaped sandwich. Plus, here in Europe they cheat us by .48 cm (= 4.8 mm, see how easy it is? I didn't need a calculator! Smiley ) on each sandwich!

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July 22, 2011, 11:41:40 AM
 #58

Authoritarians are the new crazy.
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July 22, 2011, 12:08:56 PM
 #59

Have anyone thought about teaching children to learn instead of all that less significant stuff that was mentioned ITT?

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July 22, 2011, 07:10:18 PM
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Teaching people to learn is indeed an worthy endeavor

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July 22, 2011, 07:23:08 PM
 #61

Yet another reason homeschooling should be outlawed or regulated.  Knowing the metric system is a requirement for anyone of even moderate intelligence and education.  The US is the only country on earth that still uses the imperial system and the metric system is even used here for any type of science work above a elementary school level.


Actually, the US isn't the only nation left that still uses an Imperial system.  But that doesn't matter much.  There are 300+ million people in the US.  Two-thirds of whom don't give a crap what Europeans do.
Quote
Homeschooling is actually outlawed over here and not many people complain about it.


They don't complain because that gets you arrested.  The prohibition on homeschooling is the only statute still in effect that was passed by the Nazi's.  That alone should tell you something.  I'd bet you think you live in a free country.

Quote


I agree that little children might be overwhelmed by the Metric system when all they know is that they are 4 feet tall.

I was never overwhelmed by the metric system, I just don't consider it particularly useful.
Quote

But that's why the US has finally switch to the evil Metric system. C'mon, if America Jr. (Canada) could pull it off, you can too! In fact, you did it already! I came across something called the Metric Conversion Act, but that only applies to trade and commerce.

Interstate Freeway signs are also in both AS and Metric around here.  So is my speedometer.  Doesn't matter much.  Data in metric is available in the US, it's just that nobody cares, and the government can't realy force people to care.  If it was truely a better system, people would use if of their own free will.  In some ways, they do.  I know that a gallon is just under four liters, and beverages are available in both types of bottles.  The gallon jugs also have their metric measurements printed on the label so the Eurotrash visiting Walt Disney World in the off season won't have a stroke trying to buy milk.  The public will adapt to whatever they use daily.  If Metric is superior, it's not superior enough to get people to switch.  It was easy enough for Europeans to do that because the various imperial systems that existed were all incompatible, which affected commerce.  THe United States never really had that problem.

Quote
It might be more "intuitive" to use the system you grew up with, but calculating in US customary units is just hellish. Or can you tell me how I can convert a quarter mile into yards easily? My navigation system displays yards but the road signs are in fractions of a mile, oh my.

How often do you need to convert from Km to meters in real life?  I agree that it doesn't require much thought converting between different scales, but doing that in AS tends to develop the gray matter.  If you needed to convert between miles to yards in your daily life, you'd know how to do it in your head as well.  Most people don't have to do that.  That said, AS actually is very intuitive within scales, as it is largely based upon halving and quartering, whichis something that the human mind has no problem doing.  Even the math illiterate public have never had issues with AS in the past, as in the Old West attaracting gold prospectors who couldn't even read.  Try to teach a four year old how a decimal system of division works, and then try to teach that same four year old about even sharing and you will understand the differences.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 22, 2011, 08:08:13 PM
 #62

Metric system is more convenient than Imperial, all units are 1000 fold, e.g. 1 km = 1000m, 1m = 1000 millimeters or 1 tonne = 1000 kg, 1 kg = 1000 g. Most counties in the world adopted it, even UK was forced to use double Imperial/Metric labeling.
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July 22, 2011, 08:15:31 PM
 #63

Metric system is more convenient than Imperial, all units are 1000 fold, e.g. 1 km = 1000m, 1m = 1000 millimeters or 1 tonne = 1000 kg, 1 kg = 1000 g. Most counties in the world adopted it, even UK was forced to use double Imperial/Metric labeling.

Imperial is more convenient than metric, all units are halves or thirds or quarters of another. It's all in how you market it, and which way you grew up using.

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July 22, 2011, 10:23:42 PM
 #64

Metric system is more convenient than Imperial, all units are 1000 fold, e.g. 1 km = 1000m, 1m = 1000 millimeters or 1 tonne = 1000 kg, 1 kg = 1000 g.


I disagree with this subjective opinion.

Quote
Most counties in the world adopted it, even UK was forced to use double Imperial/Metric labeling.

You (convientiently, I assume) completely ignored the reasons that most countries in the world have adopted it.  You also fail to notice the contradiction that citizens in the UK were forced to use Metric, and did not chose to use Metric of their own will.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 23, 2011, 12:06:37 AM
 #65

Teaching people to learn is indeed an worthy endeavor

That can be read more than one way, and both interpretations are worthy endeavours.

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July 23, 2011, 12:14:38 AM
 #66

Teaching people to learn is indeed an worthy endeavor

That can be read more than one way, and both interpretations are worthy endeavours.


Indeed. "He who teaches, also learns, and he who learns, teaches."

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July 23, 2011, 12:36:25 AM
 #67

If your son called him a liar that's wrong of him. A mistaken belief isn't a lie.
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July 23, 2011, 01:25:04 AM
 #68

Metric system is more convenient than Imperial, all units are 1000 fold, e.g. 1 km = 1000m, 1m = 1000 millimeters or 1 tonne = 1000 kg, 1 kg = 1000 g. Most counties in the world adopted it, even UK was forced to use double Imperial/Metric labeling.

Imperial is more convenient than metric, all units are halves or thirds or quarters of another. It's all in how you market it, and which way you grew up using.

lol wut?


12 inches = 1 foot

How is that a half, third, or quarter?

3 feet = 1 yard

1,760 yards = 1 mile

Huh?  Sweet massive leap.  So for anything over 3 feet and under 5,280 feet, I can either use a ruler that's way too small or one that's way too big.

2 cups = 1 pint

2 pints = 1 quart

2 quarts = WTF!?!? why doesn't it equal anything?


8 ounces = 1 cup

16 ounces = 1 pound

1/2 pound = 1 cup Huh?

Whaaaa?

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July 23, 2011, 01:46:52 AM
 #69

Metric system is more convenient than Imperial, all units are 1000 fold, e.g. 1 km = 1000m, 1m = 1000 millimeters or 1 tonne = 1000 kg, 1 kg = 1000 g. Most counties in the world adopted it, even UK was forced to use double Imperial/Metric labeling.

Imperial is more convenient than metric, all units are halves or thirds or quarters of another. It's all in how you market it, and which way you grew up using.

lol wut?


12 inches = 1 foot

Ahh, AyeTroll, as productive as ever... 1 foot /3: 4 inches. /4: 1 inch. (didja forget that 4 * 3 is 12?)

My point was that it's more what you're used to, than which is 'easier'.

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July 23, 2011, 02:13:32 AM
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lol wut?


12 inches = 1 foot

How is that a half, third, or quarter?

3 feet = 1 yard

1,760 yards = 1 mile

Huh?  Sweet massive leap.  So for anything over 3 feet and under 5,280 feet, I can either use a ruler that's way too small or one that's way too big.
Don't forget the weird units like rods and chains.
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July 23, 2011, 02:13:35 AM
 #71


2 cups = 1 pint

2 pints = 1 quart

2 quarts = WTF!?!? why doesn't it equal anything?


8 ounces = 1 cup

16 ounces = 1 pound

1/2 pound = 1 cup Huh?

Whaaaa?

Talk about 'derp'.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units#Units_of_capacity_and_volume)

Bushel
Half-Bushel
Peck
Gallon
Half-Gallon
quart
pint
cup
gill (half-cup)
Half-gill (quarter-cup)
Ounce
Tablespoon

Each one of those is a half measurement of the one above it.  The volume to weight references are because a pint of water (16 fluid ounces) is very close to one pound in weight.

EDIT:  From Wikipedia...

"One fluid ounce is 1⁄16 of a U.S. pint, 1⁄32 of a U.S. quart, and 1⁄128 of a U.S. gallon. The fluid ounce derives its name originally from being the volume of one ounce avoirdupois of water, but in the U.S. it is defined as 1⁄128 of a U.S. gallon. Consequently, a fluid ounce of water weighs about 1.041 ounces avoirdupois.

The saying "a pint's a pound the world around" refers to 16 US fluid ounces of water weighing approximately (about 4% more than) one pound avoirdupois. An imperial pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter."

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 23, 2011, 02:16:47 AM
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lol wut?


12 inches = 1 foot

How is that a half, third, or quarter?

3 feet = 1 yard

1,760 yards = 1 mile

Huh?  Sweet massive leap.  So for anything over 3 feet and under 5,280 feet, I can either use a ruler that's way too small or one that's way too big.
Don't forget the weird units like rods and chains.

Why do we have to remember them?  No one uses them anymore.  At least the gill is still called the half-cup.  The point of this argument is that AS is still in use in the US wherever it is more useful than any alternative system.  Metric is used by Americans, when we want to.  Ever heard of a two liter bottle?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 23, 2011, 03:34:19 AM
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Oh my God, Christ!

Report her to the education department.
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July 23, 2011, 06:19:24 AM
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... Long list of useless stuff edited out ...

The saying "a pint's a pound the world around" refers to 16 US fluid ounces of water weighing approximately (about 4% more than) one pound avoirdupois. An imperial pint of water weighs a pound and a quarter."


LOL. Dude, thanks for make everyone else's point.

What point would that be, that Metric is more precise?  Of course it is, it was developed by and four science & international commerce.  But the fact that I can look at a gallon of water, and know that it's just a bit over 8 pounds tells me something useful in practice.  Real people don't need that kind of precision, most of the time.  For example, I've been running an experiment over the past two weeks.  I've got two coolers, and I want to figure out how much ice would be required to keep the contents chilled for four days as well as how much salt to add to those gallons in order to keep the contents frozen for four days.  Everything that I'm doing is in gallons, but for a frame of reference, I checked out the price of bagged ice at the store.  The bagged ice is sold only in four pound and 10 pound bags.  Knowing that a gallon of water is very close to 8 pounds gives me a frame of reference to make my intuitive guesses as to how much it would cost me to buy the ice I need versus freezing my own in gallon jugs.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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July 23, 2011, 10:02:11 AM
 #75

Actually, the US isn't the only nation left that still uses an Imperial system.  But that doesn't matter much.  There are 300+ million people in the US.  Two-thirds of whom don't give a crap what Europeans do.
Yah, Liberia and Myanmar still use it as well. Great club. UK is almost done with metrification. The not-crap-giving is what bothers the rest of the world, though.

They don't complain because that gets you arrested.  The prohibition on homeschooling is the only statute still in effect that was passed by the Nazi's.  That alone should tell you something.  I'd bet you think you live in a free country.
Hmm, I hear Godwin calling. Did you know that what you call "AS" is actually "BS" the Imperial system? That should tell you something...

Complaining does not get you arrested in Germany. Where did you get that? Maybe it does in the US... Breaking the law does and the law is that each child is required to go to a school - and an officially recognized one, not some building you put a sign on that says "SHCOOL".
I bet you think you live in a free country. Where you can't even talk about Christ in public schools or invite to Christian events. Where people have to be warned that "CAUTION! Hot beverages are hot!" in order not to get sued. A "free" country is an illusion, there are always rules and regulations you have to abide by, however the degree of freedom varies. Nobody stops you from giving your child extra education after school, as long as it does it's stretch for 6-7 x 45 minutes. Of course, the "indoctrination" needs to be "washed out" of the child's brain afterwards, right?! Roll Eyes
And don't talk to me about Nazis. We dealt with our past and still deal with the nationalists every day. You foster them.

I was never overwhelmed by the metric system, I just don't consider it particularly useful.
You mean, because you have already a system of measurement? Because in and of itself, the Metric system is quite useful. I mean you can measure length, volume, weight, etc. with it. If you'd grown up differently, you'd think otherwise. So it's just a matter of upbringing and of "but I don't wanna switch!!". Much like people complained about the Euro that prices and wages were suddenly halved and how they didn't have the right "feeling" for money. How hard can it be? A rolling stone gathers no moss, as they say.

How often do you need to convert from Km to meters in real life?  I agree that it doesn't require much thought converting between different scales, but doing that in AS tends to develop the gray matter.  If you needed to convert between miles to yards in your daily life, you'd know how to do it in your head as well.  Most people don't have to do that.  That said, AS actually is very intuitive within scales, as it is largely based upon halving and quartering, whichis something that the human mind has no problem doing.  Even the math illiterate public have never had issues with AS in the past, as in the Old West attaracting gold prospectors who couldn't even read.  Try to teach a four year old how a decimal system of division works, and then try to teach that same four year old about even sharing and you will understand the differences.
Oh, okay. So it is now actually better to have a complicated system, because you need to think about conversions more. No way, people will just use their calculator! Especially since everybody has one nowadays in their cell phone. Even though you know what to calculate to get 0.34 miles in yards, it's not especially easy to do apart from guesstimating. However, I can easily say that 0.34 km is 340 m or 34,000 cm without breaking a sweat. The width of railroad tracks is given in mm. But I can't relate to 1435 mm, so I quickly convert it to, oh, 1.435 m and suddenly a have a much better feeling for it. With 4' 8.5" I just know it's a little under 5 feet, actually somewhere in the middle between 4.5 and 5.
Yeah, you don't need too much precision in daily life and guesstimating 1 gallon as 4 liters is probably enough for a rule-of-thumb calculation. But still, it is only for historic reasons that the US customary units still exist.

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July 23, 2011, 10:11:25 AM
 #76

Ahh, AyeTroll, as productive as ever... 1 foot /3: 4 inches. /4: 1 inch. (didja forget that 4 * 3 is 12?)

My point was that it's more what you're used to, than which is 'easier'.
So then tell me how many inches are 7.35"? How can your halving and thirding help there? I can however say easily that 7.3548 m are 735.48 cm or 7354.8 mm. It doesn't even require calculation, you just move the decimal point. Since we use the decimal system now and not the duodecimal system of the Middle Ages where everything was to the basis of 12 (a dozen), you should be more "used" to that.

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July 23, 2011, 03:00:16 PM
 #77

Ahh, AyeTroll, as productive as ever... 1 foot /3: 4 inches. /4: 1 inch. (didja forget that 4 * 3 is 12?)

My point was that it's more what you're used to, than which is 'easier'.
So then tell me how many inches are 7.35"? How can your halving and thirding help there? I can however say easily that 7.3548 m are 735.48 cm or 7354.8 mm. It doesn't even require calculation, you just move the decimal point. Since we use the decimal system now and not the duodecimal system of the Middle Ages where everything was to the basis of 12 (a dozen), you should be more "used" to that.
First, the distance would be presented in feet and inches (or just inches), instead of a decimal amount of feet. If presented in feet and inches, you are done because you likely don't care about the number of inches.
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July 23, 2011, 06:04:00 PM
 #78

Ahh, AyeTroll, as productive as ever... 1 foot /3: 4 inches. /4: 1 inch. (didja forget that 4 * 3 is 12?)

My point was that it's more what you're used to, than which is 'easier'.
So then tell me how many inches are 7.35"? How can your halving and thirding help there? I can however say easily that 7.3548 m are 735.48 cm or 7354.8 mm. It doesn't even require calculation, you just move the decimal point. Since we use the decimal system now and not the duodecimal system of the Middle Ages where everything was to the basis of 12 (a dozen), you should be more "used" to that.

A lot of stuff still is base 12. Time for instance. What time is 7.35 hours after noon?

For me, because I grew up in the US, a foot is a more intuitive unit than a meter. I can do the calculations with it easily, and estimate with it in my head. When I want precision, I'll switch to metric, since that's what's generally used in scientific measurements anyway. but mm precision isn't necessary in my daily life, so inches it is.

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July 23, 2011, 06:51:26 PM
 #79

Ahh, AyeTroll, as productive as ever... 1 foot /3: 4 inches. /4: 1 inch. (didja forget that 4 * 3 is 12?)

My point was that it's more what you're used to, than which is 'easier'.
So then tell me how many inches are 7.35"? How can your halving and thirding help there? I can however say easily that 7.3548 m are 735.48 cm or 7354.8 mm. It doesn't even require calculation, you just move the decimal point. Since we use the decimal system now and not the duodecimal system of the Middle Ages where everything was to the basis of 12 (a dozen), you should be more "used" to that.

A lot of stuff still is base 12. Time for instance. What time is 7.35 hours after noon?

For me, because I grew up in the US, a foot is a more intuitive unit than a meter. I can do the calculations with it easily, and estimate with it in my head. When I want precision, I'll switch to metric, since that's what's generally used in scientific measurements anyway. but mm precision isn't necessary in my daily life, so inches it is.


You don't seem to get that there's a different between intuitive and what you know.  Imperial is easier for you because you grew up with it.  Metric is intuitive because it's simple and logical.

As someone else said, this thread perfectly demonstrates the ability of thick headed people to be thick headed in the face of anything.

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July 23, 2011, 06:57:45 PM
 #80

You don't seem to get that there's a different between intuitive and what you know.  Imperial is easier for you because you grew up with it.  Metric is intuitive because it's simple and logical.

As someone else said, this thread perfectly demonstrates the ability of thick headed people to be thick headed in the face of anything.

Considering the source, the irony in that statement is so thick you can taste it.

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