Lol'd at Mt. Gox

[bbit]

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money! 

[MaGNeT]

And a Bitcoin exchange that doesn't accept Bitcoins for this key... 

[Chick]

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money!  

Hey, go research before you make your nonsense claims. I'll pay you 20 Bitcoins if you can tell me where to get those $1 YubiKeys.

YubiKeys aren't something 'made up' by Mt. Gox, they are used by many services that require 2 levels of authentication.

[smoothie]

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money!  

Hey, go research before you make your nonsense claims. I'll pay you 20 Bitcoins if you can tell me where to get those $1 YubiKeys.

YubiKeys aren't something 'made up' by Mt. Gox, they are used by many services that require 2 levels of authentication.

But that's just the point. Any sane institution would not charge for a security feature on their site given we pay for each transaction we make on their system. They should be providing the security at NO COST!

That's like a bank saying I'm going to charge you a fee to have added security to your money because there is a possibility someone could hack into your account and take all the funds.

If they see a flaw they should fix it or enforce policies to users to adhere to that make using their system safe, not charge them for a security feature that should be in place already.

That is Bullsh*t.

[Serge]

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money! 

Hey, go research before you make your nonsense claims. I'll pay you 20 Bitcoins if you can tell me where to get those $1 YubiKeys.

YubiKeys aren't something 'made up' by Mt. Gox, they are used by many services that require 2 levels of authentication.

But that's just the point. Any sane institution would not charge for a security feature on their site given we pay for each transaction we make on their system. They should be providing the security at NO COST!

That's like a bank saying I'm going to charge you a fee to have added security to your money because there is a possibility someone could hack into your account and take all the funds.

If they see a flaw they should fix it or enforce policies to users to adhere to that make using their system safe, not charge them for a security feature that should be in place already.

That is Bullsh*t.

If MtGox acted like a bank and used large portion of your funds for their own investments paying you small interest, then it would make sense for them to provide free security, like banks do.  and also insure your account with FDIC or something similar.  Additionally somehow my bank doesn't provide free or paid YubiKey to me :-/

Edit: How come you have to pay additional for safe deposit box at these banks? That is Bullsh*t. you should demand that service for free!

[Chick]

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money!  

Hey, go research before you make your nonsense claims. I'll pay you 20 Bitcoins if you can tell me where to get those $1 YubiKeys.

YubiKeys aren't something 'made up' by Mt. Gox, they are used by many services that require 2 levels of authentication.

But that's just the point. Any sane institution would not charge for a security feature on their site given we pay for each transaction we make on their system. They should be providing the security at NO COST!

That's like a bank saying I'm going to charge you a fee to have added security to your money because there is a possibility someone could hack into your account and take all the funds.

If they see a flaw they should fix it or enforce policies to users to adhere to that make using their system safe, not charge them for a security feature that should be in place already.

That is Bullsh*t.

YubiKeys are provided by YubiCo. Those keys aren't free, Mt. Gox can't give them out to everyone because they cost at least $20 when you buy in bulk.

[zefir]

Please be more objective.

I received my Mt.Gox YubiKey today. I got it for free, after my account was compromised during the last hack.

Just out of interest I browsed the manufacturer's web site [1] to get some technical info on that device and found price tags at [2] that are given as 750US$ for 50 pieces. Adding the 1500 JPY Mt.Gox paid for shipping to Europe (after the devices were send from Sweden to Japan for programming), they for sure do not make money providing those YubiKeys to their customers for 30US$.

If you want to complain about the money they make, better stick looking at the volumes and calculating the resulting fees (today so far: 65k*13.9US$/BTC*0.003*2 = 5421 US$).


Cheers


[1] http://www.yubico.com/
[2] https://store.yubico.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=27

[bbit]

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money!  

Hey, go research before you make your nonsense claims. I'll pay you 20 Bitcoins if you can tell me where to get those $1 YubiKeys.

YubiKeys aren't something 'made up' by Mt. Gox, they are used by many services that require 2 levels of authentication.

Says the person with the huge "goxed" banner ....  I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone fucking it up then having those very customers have to pay for something they should have already covered.

[timsmith]

I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone fucking it up then having those very customers have to pay for something they should have already covered.

MtGox fucked it up and then has had those very customers pay for something they should have already covered. By your own declaration.

Also, I believe that the crux of the current banking crisis is that they fucked it, and then the customers are having to pay to put it right. That's certainly the case within the UK.

Can I have my 40 BTC now please? I'll PM you the address you can deposit if you want.

[bbit]

I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone fucking it up then having those very customers have to pay for something they should have already covered.

MtGox fucked it up and then has had those very customers pay for something they should have already covered. By your own declaration.

Also, I believe that the crux of the current banking crisis is that they fucked it, and then the customers are having to pay to put it right. That's certainly the case within the UK.

Can I have my 40 BTC now please? I'll PM you the address you can deposit if you want.

huh ?   I said if they can find me another business that has fucked their customer base and made them pay - they won't find another because it doesn't happen ....

now  for the stupidity I demand another 40 bitcoins with the original 40 bitcoins!

[timsmith]

huh ?   I said if they can find me another business that has fucked their customer base and made them pay - they won't find another because it doesn't happen ....

now  for the stupidity I demand another 40 bitcoins with the original 40 bitcoins!

No, you specifically said "I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone fucking it up...", not "I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone else fucking it up". You might have meant "someone else", but that's not what you said. I have indeed heard of someone who fucked it up and then had those very customers pay, because you just explained it in earlier posts.

Therefore I am entitled to my 40 Bitcoins please...

(Plus I gave you two examples, so even without the legal linguistic pedantry, I still have given you another business: UK banks.)

[swusc2]

How about you move your money elsewhere? Oh wait your probably some 15 year old who lost $30 in MtGox and has no money to go else where with. If not you act like one. The benefit of free business is that idiots like you don't complain constantly because you have choices. If you choose not to go elsewhere and just bitch your just a troll. GTFO.

[bbit]

How about you move your money elsewhere? Oh wait your probably some 15 year old who lost $30 in MtGox and has no money to go else where with. If not you act like one. The benefit of free business is that idiots like you don't complain constantly because you have choices. If you choose not to go elsewhere and just bitch your just a troll. GTFO.

another sucker born every minute ... seriously stfu  ....

[swusc2]

How about you move your money elsewhere? Oh wait your probably some 15 year old who lost $30 in MtGox and has no money to go else where with. If not you act like one. The benefit of free business is that idiots like you don't complain constantly because you have choices. If you choose not to go elsewhere and just bitch your just a troll. GTFO.

another sucker born every minute ... seriously stfu  ....

Youre an idiot. I would only be a sucker if I didn't believe $30 for convenience and security of a Yukikey was not worth it. I personally didn't buy one but to other people is has its worth in value. For you to tell everyone that buys one is a sucker is stupid.

I used TradeHill fyi.

And since your only argument was I'm a sucker assuming I bought and used MtGox, I stand corrected that youre a moron.

[bbit]

How about you move your money elsewhere? Oh wait your probably some 15 year old who lost $30 in MtGox and has no money to go else where with. If not you act like one. The benefit of free business is that idiots like you don't complain constantly because you have choices. If you choose not to go elsewhere and just bitch your just a troll. GTFO.

another sucker born every minute ... seriously stfu  ....

Youre an idiot. I would only be a sucker if I didn't believe $30 for convenience and security of a Yukikey was not worth it. I personally didn't buy one but to other people is has its worth in value. For you to tell everyone that buys one is a sucker is stupid.

Never said it wasn't a good idea but I don't support the way its being done. If this was TradeHill charging that make sense because they didn't have 500,000 bitcoins stolen/ lost all over the place!

You're still a numbnuts so don't think your smart.

[enmaku]

huh ?   I said if they can find me another business that has fucked their customer base and made them pay - they won't find another because it doesn't happen ....

now  for the stupidity I demand another 40 bitcoins with the original 40 bitcoins!

No, you specifically said "I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone fucking it up...", not "I'll pay you 40 Bitcoins if you ever heard of someone else fucking it up". You might have meant "someone else", but that's not what you said. I have indeed heard of someone who fucked it up and then had those very customers pay, because you just explained it in earlier posts.

Therefore I am entitled to my 40 Bitcoins please...

(Plus I gave you two examples, so even without the legal linguistic pedantry, I still have given you another business: UK banks.)

Hmmm having security problems then later making you pay if you'd like the added security of a two-factor authentication device...

Sounds like...

Blizzard: http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100001470
Paypal: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?&cmd=xpt/Marketing_CommandDriven/securitycenter/PayPalSecurityKey-outside
Several banks offer various cards and keyfobs, none of them free. The only time I've actually been given such a device free of charge was when I needed it to log into my employer's VPN...

All of the above charge for the devices and Blizzard's is the only one you could consider "cheap" - given that it's only protecting a game account and that they already know you've spent a small fortune before you care enough to obtain one, they've decided to take a small hit. Paypal's authenticator is $29.99.

Finally, here's a short list of other places that use the yubikey: http://www.yubico.com/references
Microsoft is on that list, touting it as a good security option for their upcoming Azure platform. Gee that smells like a scam to me too..... ?

[swusc2]

How about you move your money elsewhere? Oh wait your probably some 15 year old who lost $30 in MtGox and has no money to go else where with. If not you act like one. The benefit of free business is that idiots like you don't complain constantly because you have choices. If you choose not to go elsewhere and just bitch your just a troll. GTFO.

another sucker born every minute ... seriously stfu  ....

Youre an idiot. I would only be a sucker if I didn't believe $30 for convenience and security of a Yukikey was not worth it. I personally didn't buy one but to other people is has its worth in value. For you to tell everyone that buys one is a sucker is stupid.

Never said it wasn't a good idea but I don't support the way its being done. If this was TradeHill charging that make sense because they didn't have 500,000 bitcoins stolen/ erased all over the place!

You're still a numbnuts so don't think your smart.

I have to admit these Mt. Gox clowns are good. I mean really. They have a major flaw in their system that leads to bitcoins being hijacked everywhere then they use that to pitch a $29.95 product called the "yubikey" LOL'd ... probably costs $4.95 to ship and $1.00 to make making a $20 profit per key .... you can't make this shit up! welcome to the world of we fuck it up and make money!

Unless I'm blind and missed the "Mt. Gox clowns", the stupid use of "LOL'd", actually the whole OP and the purpose was exclusively just to say Never said it wasn't a good idea but I don't support the way its being done. I guess you could be almost be right?

This is obviously bitter at MtGox and this is obviously just a flame thread.

[TTBit]

My password wasn't compromised at mtgox.

[timsmith]

...still waiting for my 40 bitcoins...

[MaGNeT]

...still waiting for my 40 bitcoins...

Till hell freezes over?

[hiVe]

I agree with zefir.
Got it for free, but I appreciate it that much more. It offers immerse value.

Also shipping to your side alone costs 1,5k yen, which at the current exchange rate 19$ !!

So much for bbit's claim/estimate of 4,95$, well maybe if you live in Korea you could get the shipping done for that much
Not to mention manufacturing price, shipping costs to Japan, logo printing {if you chose one with mt.gox logo}, possible customs clearance expenses if bought in bulk.

I say they have no profit from this whatsoever, just handling trouble and a good feeling from customer satisfaction.

The comparison to other companies that charge you for such authentication items has already been done, hell even my fking bank to whom I regularly pay for account keeping, charges me 5€ for a auth. plastic card worth 0,10€!! so I have nothing more to add.

[spruce]

Several banks offer various cards and keyfobs, none of them free. The only time I've actually been given such a device free of charge was when I needed it to log into my employer's VPN...

I'm in the UK. My bank provides a little electronic gizmo you stick your bank card in and it gives (different) authentication codes for each time you use online banking. That was free of charge.

[malditonuke]

Several banks offer various cards and keyfobs, none of them free. The only time I've actually been given such a device free of charge was when I needed it to log into my employer's VPN...

I'm in the UK. My bank provides a little electronic gizmo you stick your bank card in and it gives (different) authentication codes for each time you use online banking. That was free of charge.

some banks in the US do that; some don't.  Citibank did that for me when i opened a business account with them a few years back.  i just opened a Chase business account a couple months ago, and they didn't provide one.

[bbit]

Please be more objective.

I received my Mt.Gox YubiKey today. I got it for free, after my account was compromised during the last hack.

Just out of interest I browsed the manufacturer's web site [1] to get some technical info on that device and found price tags at [2] that are given as 750US$ for 50 pieces. Adding the 1500 JPY Mt.Gox paid for shipping to Europe (after the devices were send from Sweden to Japan for programming), they for sure do not make money providing those YubiKeys to their customers for 30US$.

If you want to complain about the money they make, better stick looking at the volumes and calculating the resulting fees (today so far: 65k*13.9US$/BTC*0.003*2 = 5421 US$).


Cheers


[1] http://www.yubico.com/
[2] https://store.yubico.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=27

I was merely pointing out have you ever heard of such a thing where a Business screws their customer base then charges them  regardless if they make a profit or not its odd isn't it ?

[bbit]

And a Bitcoin exchange that doesn't accept Bitcoins for this key... 

doesn't that seem odd?

[RchGrav]

Please be more objective.

I received my Mt.Gox YubiKey today. I got it for free, after my account was compromised during the last hack.

Just out of interest I browsed the manufacturer's web site [1] to get some technical info on that device and found price tags at [2] that are given as 750US$ for 50 pieces. Adding the 1500 JPY Mt.Gox paid for shipping to Europe (after the devices were send from Sweden to Japan for programming), they for sure do not make money providing those YubiKeys to their customers for 30US$.

If you want to complain about the money they make, better stick looking at the volumes and calculating the resulting fees (today so far: 65k*13.9US$/BTC*0.003*2 = 5421 US$).


Cheers


[1] http://www.yubico.com/
[2] https://store.yubico.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=27

I was merely pointing out have you ever heard of such a thing where a Business screws their customer base then charges them  regardless if they make a profit or not its odd isn't it ?

Not really.. they made a lot of concessions for their customers that were effected.  I'm satisfied with the way they handled the whole thing, I had about $3000 in there and didn't lose a penny.  But I'm not happy about the situation as a whole.. who is?

I give them credit for the way the handled the situation with integrity, and until the same thing occurs with another exchange I don't know how they would respond.. For all I know, if placed in the same situation, they would just take the money and run.

That being said... I have experience with their service, and I don't have any with the competitors.  That is why I continue to use them.  Not to mention they still have the largest daily volume of any exchange.

What exactly are you looking for?

Do you even use their service? 

[FlyingFlapjack]

Is this basically the same sort of little keychain thing that some MMO's use for account security?

You can usually get a 'free' one if you buy the collector's edition. Of course, it's not exactly free. When you add up what you got in the Collectors edition and how much it cost the company probably, you paid more. But at least you don't get ripped off as much as if you just bought the security fob from them standalone. And the thing is, most people won't even think to do a little hypothetical math about costs and what they've already paid. They will just get the security dongle in the CE and think yaaaay CE is so cool look at all this suff I get woohooo.

Think about it...that's just for stupid MMOs.

So...Mt Gox really should obviously consider the customer service angle.

1st, it's probably better for them to use a 'generic' supplier in China rather than a brand like Yubikey. For the people they do charge, they could charge less and make more money.

2nd...give it to your good customers 'for free.'

As in, don't send one for free to every dink with 10 BTC and $100 in there.

DO send one for free to every dink with say, 100+ BTC and $1000+ in there.

Or whatever the numbers are. They have big fees. Some customers have paid a lot more in fees already than the real cost to MTGOX of these security fobs/dongles/whatevers.

So yeah this thread is basically right except don't give them away to just anybody. "Give" them away to customers who are worth it.

If they had taken the route of dealing with a generic Chinese manufacturer, it should only be a few $'s per customer. They could then charge the rest of their customers less money and yet make more profit on the endeavor.

[zefir]

Please be more objective.

I received my Mt.Gox YubiKey today. I got it for free, after my account was compromised during the last hack.

Just out of interest I browsed the manufacturer's web site [1] to get some technical info on that device and found price tags at [2] that are given as 750US$ for 50 pieces. Adding the 1500 JPY Mt.Gox paid for shipping to Europe (after the devices were send from Sweden to Japan for programming), they for sure do not make money providing those YubiKeys to their customers for 30US$.

If you want to complain about the money they make, better stick looking at the volumes and calculating the resulting fees (today so far: 65k*13.9US$/BTC*0.003*2 = 5421 US$).


Cheers


[1] http://www.yubico.com/
[2] https://store.yubico.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=27

I was merely pointing out have you ever heard of such a thing where a Business screws their customer base then charges them  regardless if they make a profit or not its odd isn't it ?

For sure I was not happy to see my account and hashed password in files freely downloadable for everyone 

But hey, such things do happen regularly in modern world. Web-shops get hacked, as do companies and institutions that spend huge resources for securing their servers (VISA, FBI, Facebook, etc.).

I am realistic enough to understand that there are no (and never will be) 100% secure systems. More than that, I am even aware of the potential risk to loose all my deposits at Mt.Gox (or TradeHill) after an attack more successful than the previous one. So far, I did not loose a single Satoshi - whereas seeing my hashed password flying around motivated me to double-check my security policies

With respect to the charge for the YubiKey: I have to deal with a dozen of those 2-factor authentication devices to access my bank and brokerage accounts. About half of them I got for free (mostly 'cheap' TAN generators), for the others I payed some 15 to 25€ each.


Cheers

[bbit]

Going to move the conversation forward  and say Mt.gotcha cashed out the 25,000 bitcoins or 500,000 bitcoins I mean the price goes up and magically half a  million coins disappear!

[luv2drnkbr]

Just goes to show you the power of "being first"....

TradeHill has no cash withdraw limits, free security, far better security, they did it of their own accord before the Gox incident, 3rd party verification of their security and business finances, and lower fees, and that Duo security shit they use is super awesome and easy to use, free for the user, and can be used with your phone instead of having a brand new thing you gotta keep somewhere.  But Gox still has 10x their volume.

[GeniuSxBoY]

Just goes to show you the power of "being first"....

TradeHill has no cash withdraw limits, free security, far better security, they did it of their own accord before the Gox incident, 3rd party verification of their security and business finances, and lower fees, and that Duo security shit they use is super awesome and easy to use, free for the user, and can be used with your phone instead of having a brand new thing you gotta keep somewhere.  But Gox still has 10x their volume.

TradeHill interface is still crappier than MtGox. That's why it will and always will be #2.

[bbit]

Just goes to show you the power of "being first"....

TradeHill has no cash withdraw limits, free security, far better security, they did it of their own accord before the Gox incident, 3rd party verification of their security and business finances, and lower fees, and that Duo security shit they use is super awesome and easy to use, free for the user, and can be used with your phone instead of having a brand new thing you gotta keep somewhere.  But Gox still has 10x their volume.

Yes, the power of being first does go along way this is true...