Bitcoin Forum
December 09, 2016, 03:34:24 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: So, people are irrational and can't take care of themselves through freetrade...  (Read 2178 times)
ascent
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 20, 2011, 07:42:44 PM
 #21

Murray Rothbard does a fine job of explaining it, so I'll let him:
Quote
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory."

If that ain't consistent, I don't know what is.

Absolutely ridiculous. There is a large enough percentage of humans who will gravitate towards those who seem to be gathering power.

Tell me, in your "fantasy-world", why do you think that everyone will abide by that law?

Please donate: 1E4WizTzmANGZgyK1XBqS3h4VuXsBXo4Ev
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481297664
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481297664

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481297664
Reply with quote  #2

1481297664
Report to moderator
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 20, 2011, 08:04:58 PM
 #22

Murray Rothbard does a fine job of explaining it, so I'll let him:
Quote
"No one may threaten or commit violence ('aggress') against another man's person or property. Violence may be employed only against the man who commits such violence; that is, only defensively against the aggressive violence of another. In short, no violence may be employed against a nonaggressor. Here is the fundamental rule from which can be deduced the entire corpus of libertarian theory."

If that ain't consistent, I don't know what is.

Absolutely ridiculous. There is a large enough percentage of humans who will gravitate towards those who seem to be gathering power.

Tell me, in your "fantasy-world", why do you think that everyone will abide by that law?
Because those that do not will:
a) pay restitution to those who they have harmed (Financial incentive)
b) be ostracized (social, and to a lesser extent, financial incentive) or
c) be killed in the commission of an aggressive act.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
ascent
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 03:00:26 AM
 #23

Tell me, in your "fantasy-world", why do you think that everyone will abide by that law?
Because those that do not will:
a) pay restitution to those who they have harmed (Financial incentive)
b) be ostracized (social, and to a lesser extent, financial incentive) or
c) be killed in the commission of an aggressive act.

What makes you think those will be the laws? Communities gather like minded individuals, and perhaps the community you live in will slowly evolve into a pirate enclave, for all you know.

Keep dreaming about your "fantasy-world". You could write a fictional book about your ideal society, and most people would stop reading it halfway through because it does not realistically model human behavior. It would have the feel of a naive writer creating fiction to masquerade as his propaganda for an implausible society.

Please donate: 1E4WizTzmANGZgyK1XBqS3h4VuXsBXo4Ev
NghtRppr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 03:04:17 AM
 #24

perhaps the community you live in will slowly evolve into a pirate enclave

Clearly, you're the one living in a fantasy.

Why are the statists on these forums such clowns? Oh that's right, because it's an ideology for idiots and/or cowards.
ascent
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 03:22:46 AM
 #25

perhaps the community you live in will slowly evolve into a pirate enclave

Clearly, you're the one living in a fantasy.

Why are the statists on these forums such clowns? Oh that's right, because it's an ideology for idiots and/or cowards.

Somalia.

Please donate: 1E4WizTzmANGZgyK1XBqS3h4VuXsBXo4Ev
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 03:25:37 AM
 #26

Keep dreaming about your "fantasy-world". You could write a fictional book about your ideal society, and most people would stop reading it halfway through because it does not realistically model human behavior. It would have the feel of a naive writer creating fiction to masquerade as his propaganda for an implausible society.

Fictional books HAVE been written about such a society, and while they're not exactly best sellers, not small potatoes, either.

In fact, if you'd like, a whole chunk of such fiction has been made into comics, most of which you can read online free-of-cost at http://www.bigheadpress.com/

I highly recommend Escape From Terra. Newbies to libertarian thought should definitely start at the start, but you can jump in at the start of any storyline.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
NghtRppr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 03:35:28 AM
 #27

perhaps the community you live in will slowly evolve into a pirate enclave

Clearly, you're the one living in a fantasy.

Why are the statists on these forums such clowns? Oh that's right, because it's an ideology for idiots and/or cowards.

Somalia.

Idiots and/or cowards.
opticbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 677


PGP: 6EBEBCE1E0507C38


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 03:46:43 AM
 #28

How about a decentralized system of Law and Government? p2pgov?

It's called Anarcho-capitalism.

I tried to get a wiki started to do this and get people to adopt and work on it, Some people pointed me to the An-Cap wiki, before, I'm still learning. Some people pointed out what I was getting wrong and I changed some things.  Many thought i was trying to be too controlling, but anyone is welcome to change fix it, and no one else has contributed, other than the spam bots that have caused me to lock the main page.  Some of the people here on the bitcoin forums suggested we don't need a government of any kind at all and that businesses can take care of all the needs that a government does.  So I changed the basics of the idea to a business that handles government types of services, and allows taxes

Set up the same thing..
http://bit.ly/btcrefs
Get more bitcoins.
ascent
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 03:54:25 AM
 #29

In fact, if you'd like, a whole chunk of such fiction has been made into comics, most of which you can read online free-of-cost at http://www.bigheadpress.com/

I highly recommend Escape From Terra. Newbies to libertarian thought should definitely start at the start, but you can jump in at the start of any storyline.

And how is this not a fantasy-world?

Please donate: 1E4WizTzmANGZgyK1XBqS3h4VuXsBXo4Ev
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 03:55:25 AM
 #30

So I changed the basics of the idea to a business that handles government types of services, and allows taxes

Taxes? A business that handles government type services and taxes people... is a government.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 03:58:48 AM
 #31

In fact, if you'd like, a whole chunk of such fiction has been made into comics, most of which you can read online free-of-cost at http://www.bigheadpress.com/

I highly recommend Escape From Terra. Newbies to libertarian thought should definitely start at the start, but you can jump in at the start of any storyline.

And how is this not a fantasy-world?

The technical term is Science-Fiction. You know, the field of writing that was once the sole domain of moon landings, rocket ships, cell phones, communication satellites, extra-solar planets...

Besides, you specifically said that no one would read it. People do.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
ascent
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 04:03:06 AM
 #32

The technical term is Science-Fiction.

You are mincing words.

Please donate: 1E4WizTzmANGZgyK1XBqS3h4VuXsBXo4Ev
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 04:10:33 AM
 #33

The technical term is Science-Fiction.

You are mincing words.

You are dodging the point. The point was that Science fiction has included, even in some cases, introduced, concepts and technologies which we now consider commonplace.

Again, you said that people would not read it. People do.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
ascent
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 04:19:08 AM
 #34

Again, you said that people would not read it. People do.

I never said any such thing. I stated that people would not read your hypothetical book, as a way of demonstrating how your arguments do not adequately capture the way human societies come into being, and evolve. Furthermore, regarding the examples you have given, consider the audience who is reading such material. Hint: look in the mirror.

Please donate: 1E4WizTzmANGZgyK1XBqS3h4VuXsBXo4Ev
myrkul
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 532


FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM


View Profile WWW
July 21, 2011, 04:27:59 AM
 #35

Again, you said that people would not read it. People do.

I never said any such thing. I stated that people would not read your hypothetical book, as a way of demonstrating how your arguments do not adequately capture the way human societies come into being, and evolve. Furthermore, regarding the examples you have given, consider the audience who is reading such material. Hint: look in the mirror.

Now who's mincing words? Tell you what... Read the first storyline, If it's crap, I'll give you double your money back.

BTC1MYRkuLv4XPBa6bGnYAronz55grPAGcxja
Need Dispute resolution? Public Key ID: 0x11D341CF
No person has the right to initiate force, threat of force, or fraud against another person or their property. VIM VI REPELLERE LICET
the joint
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1792



View Profile
July 21, 2011, 05:17:18 AM
 #36

...so how the hell is democracy going to work if they aren't rational enough to choose good leaders?


Gotta love the bell curve.  You will find 'average' decisions being made most frequently.

NghtRppr
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 476


View Profile
July 21, 2011, 05:21:18 AM
 #37

If people are smart enough to govern each other then they are smart enough to govern themselves.
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!