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Author Topic: Why not just buy a micronation?  (Read 3854 times)
ctoon6
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July 20, 2011, 03:57:16 AM
 #21

you would have to be very public about it, and always have cameras streaming live, that way if the US did try something the whole world would see it. my hope would be that it would turn out like Tienanmen square, but with the US actually being disciplined with trade sanctions. but i never see that happening with it being one of the most powerful entity in the world.

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July 20, 2011, 03:58:40 AM
 #22

Why push Bitcon to buy a micronation, when you can just let micronations to buy some bitcoins.

Bitcoin would be a logical choice of currency for a micronation/seasted, unless their leaders fancy themselves as little kings and cannot pass on opportunity to mint own fiat.

A nice Litmus test of sorts for a micronation.



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July 20, 2011, 04:01:11 AM
 #23

Erm -- a lot of you are confusing a small nation with a micronation.

A micronation doesn't require land.

Right now, I am an emperor of a tiny micronation, am working hard on converting my micronation into a full fledged nation.

It's been stated that a nation requires 3 things:

A government, a permanent population, and land.

Land is pretty easy to obtain, a private island. That requires but one things, money.
Second is a permanent population. Not that hard to obtain, just need a good leader.
Third and final thing -- a government. Without a proper government, you can have a permanent population -- people would leave.

Anyways, I planned on having a virtual currency, however, the foundation differed from bitcoin dramatically. I was planning on have 'credits' directly backed by gold, proportionality. I was thinking 1000 credits to each ounce of gold. Meaning in theory, you'd be buying an selling stuff with 'virtual gold coins'. Obviously, there's thousands of flaws in this system, but it seemed to me like it would be something nice to have.

Anyways, just my 2 cents Tongue


Quote from wiki:
"In international law, the Montevideo Convention on the Right and Duties of States sets down the criteria for statehood in article 1: The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation#Legitimacy


"backed by gold", Ah, this is directly opposed to "virtual" concept.
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July 20, 2011, 04:03:11 AM
 #24

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July 20, 2011, 04:03:58 AM
 #25

Erm -- a lot of you are confusing a small nation with a micronation.

A micronation doesn't require land.

Right now, I am an emperor of a tiny micronation, am working hard on converting my micronation into a full fledged nation.

It's been stated that a nation requires 3 things:

A government, a permanent population, and land.

Land is pretty easy to obtain, a private island. That requires but one things, money.
Second is a permanent population. Not that hard to obtain, just need a good leader.
Third and final thing -- a government. Without a proper government, you can have a permanent population -- people would leave.

Anyways, I planned on having a virtual currency, however, the foundation differed from bitcoin dramatically. I was planning on have 'credits' directly backed by gold, proportionality. I was thinking 1000 credits to each ounce of gold. Meaning in theory, you'd be buying an selling stuff with 'virtual gold coins'. Obviously, there's thousands of flaws in this system, but it seemed to me like it would be something nice to have.

Anyways, just my 2 cents Tongue


Quote from wiki:
"In international law, the Montevideo Convention on the Right and Duties of States sets down the criteria for statehood in article 1: The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states."
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation#Legitimacy


"backed by gold", Ah, this is directly opposed to "virtual" concept.

The gold would be represented in virtual form. Also, directly backed.
Say I had 10 ounces of gold in my coffers, only 10,000 credits would exist. The credits would all be virtual, as in 'credit'.

Virtual items can be backed by physical items. Take for example PayPal. The virtual money you send around is normally backed by real money.

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ctoon6
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July 20, 2011, 04:04:02 AM
 #26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIqA7RMHsHo

from

http://seasteading.org/

as poster eariler

Vladimir
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July 20, 2011, 04:04:58 AM
 #27

There one step from "backed by gold" to "fractional reserve", as history has demonstrated so many times already.

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repentance
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July 20, 2011, 04:08:45 AM
 #28

You don't need US weapons to topple a micronation.  Tonga's hardly a world power but it was easily able to assert its claim over the Republic of Minerva.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Minerva

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July 20, 2011, 04:26:13 AM
 #29

personally - just as an exercise - i think the way to go is:

find an island nation (somewhere in micronesia, for example) that knows its days are numbered by sea level rise due to global warming - and they're very aware of that.  a nation like that already has recognized sovereignty.  get them to sell you one of their shortly-to-be underwater islands, with the proviso that you are both granted independence and guaranteed they will recognize you as a sovereign nation at the UN.  they need money to relocate their population.  they'll do it, for enough:  high tens of millions i'd imagine.

then just start building out your little island - and building it higher.  if you've got something that's stable on the ocean floor, that's really all you need.
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July 20, 2011, 04:30:50 AM
 #30

I think the best solution to this problem is to convince a gang or group of gangs to move to a rural area of the US and succeed from the union. It would be very beneficial for them to do so because they would create the laws. if it worked, it could spread, granted the government does not crush it.

Some problems, it would initially be a very violent society, murder and rape would be rampant in the area. but over time i could see that break down when normal people got in.

Uhh, well let me know when you have the rape gangs under control and I might move in.

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July 20, 2011, 04:31:28 AM
 #31

you would have to be very public about it, and always have cameras streaming live, that way if the US did try something the whole world would see it. my hope would be that it would turn out like Tienanmen square, but with the US actually being disciplined with trade sanctions. but i never see that happening with it being one of the most powerful entity in the world.

Again, you can watch drone strikes on your evening news and read about them in stories Every Single Day.

Backlash?

Israel boarded a boat illegally and assassinated activists. Once again streamed nearly live.

Backlash?

Collateral Damage video - you know Wikileaks first newsmaker?

Backlash?
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July 20, 2011, 04:41:25 AM
 #32

personally - just as an exercise - i think the way to go is:

find an island nation (somewhere in micronesia, for example) that knows its days are numbered by sea level rise due to global warming - and they're very aware of that.  a nation like that already has recognized sovereignty.  get them to sell you one of their shortly-to-be underwater islands, with the proviso that you are both granted independence and guaranteed they will recognize you as a sovereign nation at the UN.  they need money to relocate their population.  they'll do it, for enough:  high tens of millions i'd imagine.

then just start building out your little island - and building it higher.  if you've got something that's stable on the ocean floor, that's really all you need.

This is essentially what happened with Minerva.

Quote
In 1971, barges loaded with sand arrived from Australia, bringing the reef level above the water and allowing construction of a small tower and flag. The Republic of Minerva issued a declaration of independence on 19 January 1972, in letters to neighboring countries and even created their own currency. In February 1972, Morris C. Davis was elected as Provisional President of the Republic of Minerva.

Even if Tonga hadn't asserted a claim over the Minerva reefs (a claim disputed by Fiji), nothing bound other countries in the region to recognise the Republic of Minerva as an independent, sovereign nation.

There are literally tens of thousands of islands in the Pacific and many of them are for sale, but they're not likely to ever be for sale "no strings attached" - especially not in such a volatile region where fledging nations trying to assert their independence with the support of the international community still often fail.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
ctoon6
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July 20, 2011, 04:45:59 AM
 #33

you would have to be very public about it, and always have cameras streaming live, that way if the US did try something the whole world would see it. my hope would be that it would turn out like Tienanmen square, but with the US actually being disciplined with trade sanctions. but i never see that happening with it being one of the most powerful entity in the world.

Again, you can watch drone strikes on your evening news and read about them in stories Every Single Day.

Backlash?

Israel boarded a boat illegally and assassinated activists. Once again streamed nearly live.

Backlash?

Collateral Damage video - you know Wikileaks first newsmaker?

Backlash?

The US public is more worried about getting their Social Security checks and x than innocent lives i guess.

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July 20, 2011, 12:21:35 PM
 #34

you would have to be very public about it, and always have cameras streaming live, that way if the US did try something the whole world would see it.
Two words: jamming devices. Worked very well for the Israeli government.

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July 20, 2011, 12:26:30 PM
 #35

What would you say to a group effort to purchase a micronation as base for bitcoin. Billionares could fly in like an bank branch for bitcoin. Because we are all going to be billionaires with bitcoin Smiley

Micro-nations with modern infrastructure (service provider with undersea cable, 3G, airports, hospital, paved roads, etc.) would be prohibitively expensive. Also we are a free web-forum, not an organization.
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July 20, 2011, 01:35:12 PM
 #36

Buying a private island and attempting to secede from a larger nation would only result in them sending their military out to reclaim the land. Buying a micro nation advanced enough to host an internet based currency would be terribly expensive, i am with Vladimir its probably better to get a already established micro nation to adopt Bitcoin instead of having Bitcoin adopt a micro nation.

Just in case i do something worthwhile: 12YXLzbi4hfLaUxyPswRbKW92C6h5KsVnX
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July 20, 2011, 01:49:45 PM
 #37

how would it look if the US just torpedoed 50 innocent people on a whim.

Well they could fire those things from submarines and nobody would see what happen until things go skyhigh.
And they could always spin it thus...

"Breaking news:  Power generator incident on Bitopia destroys new nation"

Or maybe

"We have credible intelligence reports that these are terrorists harbouring Weapons of Monetary Destructions"

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July 20, 2011, 02:00:41 PM
 #38

It's secede, not succeed. And regarding the idea of pressing some helpful rape gangs into service to seize a rural area, the US has historically been quite uncooperative about attempts to secede from the union.
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July 20, 2011, 03:22:04 PM
 #39

It's secede, not succeed. And regarding the idea of pressing some helpful rape gangs into service to seize a rural area, the US has historically been quite uncooperative about attempts to secede from the union.

If only it could be both!

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July 20, 2011, 03:23:39 PM
 #40

Could always buy a decommissioned cruise ship. Big enough to be a city, plenty of tech on board, and can move around the water. Main problems would be initial cost, protection from pirates, and power generation (maybe buy a nuke reactor from Iran, too?)

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