Bitcoin Forum
September 16, 2019, 07:53:03 AM *
News: If you like a topic and you see an orange "bump" link, click it. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: When you see a locked Marketplace topic, do you think:
The offer is closed - 11 (84.6%)
The offer is still open - 2 (15.4%)
Total Voters: 13

Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Institute threadcrap fine/sticky for Marketplace & child boards  (Read 1518 times)
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
September 29, 2013, 07:50:11 PM
Last edit: September 29, 2013, 08:44:18 PM by TheButterZone
 #1

After receiving threadcrap after threadcrap after threadcrap on my Marketplace threads, I recently put this threadcrap fine rule in them:

FAIR WARNING: If you post *anything negative without first transacting with me*, you acknowledge 1) that's defined as threadcrap 2) that your threadcrap will be screenshot before I delete it, and referenced in my negative trust rating of you 3) you will pay a 1 BTC fine to remove my negative trust rating 4) if you do not pay 1 BTC, my negative trust rating on you will not be removed, until you do.

A user just acknowledged and violated this anyway on one of those threads, and was consequently negrated with screenshot. It's as if people think they can commit any act of aggression whatsoever on the internet and get away with it, and act like everyone else are assholes for trying to do business in peace, not wanting flaming bags of crap left on their virtual storefront doorsteps. I don't see threadcrap ever slowing down unless the forum adopts a variant of this rule and stickies it on the Marketplace boards.

As I said in this post, I wonder if trust rating can be separated from scumbag rating, because I'd rather not have to neg trust someone for being an aggressor who didn't steal my BTC.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
1568620383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568620383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568620383
Reply with quote  #2

1568620383
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1568620383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568620383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568620383
Reply with quote  #2

1568620383
Report to moderator
1568620383
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1568620383

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1568620383
Reply with quote  #2

1568620383
Report to moderator
Kluge
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1011



View Profile
September 29, 2013, 07:53:46 PM
 #2

No person may reply to this thread without paying a 1BTC fine. Should you post after I have posted this, without paying the 1BTC fine, a negative rating will be made against your account by me, and not removed until you pay the 1BTC fine. You may pay fines to 1FascistpopKgMzuXubvKZRwk1WqKjaiY8

(Wouldn't it be easier just to self-moderate the thread?)
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
September 29, 2013, 07:58:00 PM
 #3

It's because I self-moderate my threads that I can delete threadcrap instantly, easier than reporting to mods. But self-mod doesn't deter threadcrappers in the first place, and I can't afford to be online/awake 24/7 to delete the unrepentant scumbags. There's nothing easy about that.

It's not fascism to want not to be aggressed upon.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
grue
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1208



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 12:25:43 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2013, 12:42:51 AM by grue
 #4

Your "threadcrap fine" is a terrible way to deter "threadcraping". All it does is force the user to create a sockpuppet, spam a few posts, and wait 24 hours (for the newbie restrictions to expire). Then he can "threadcrap" with impunity.

Institute threadcrap fine/sticky for Marketplace & child boards
But "threadcrap" is allowed in the marketplace last time I checked. You're getting ahead of yourself by suggesting to impose fines.

A user just acknowledged and violated this anyway on one of those threads, and was consequently negrated with screenshot. It's as if people think they can commit any act of aggression whatsoever on the internet and get away with it, and act like everyone else are assholes for trying to do business in peace, not wanting flaming bags of crap left on their virtual storefront doorsteps. I don't see threadcrap ever slowing down unless the forum adopts a variant of this rule and stickies it on the Marketplace boards.
To be fair, you cannot prove that the poster read, comprehend and agreed to the message. Your warning is a flimsier version of "I agree" clickwrap agreements. Also, for the situation you mentioned, you could have very well reported the post to a moderator. The post was clearly off topic. There was no need to take the laws into your own hands, issue "fines" to people, and give people negative trust.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Adblock for annoying signature ads | Enhanced Merit UI
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
September 30, 2013, 01:26:25 AM
 #5

Your "threadcrap fine" is a terrible way to deter "threadcraping". All it does is force the user to create a sockpuppet, spam a few posts, and wait 24 hours (for the newbie restrictions to expire). Then he can "threadcrap" with impunity.


Then what way would you suggest is not terrible? An interstitial warning before posting in Marketplace topics, in large text warning against threadcrap? I'm just trying to work within the system we are stuck with here and suggest possible improvements: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=304134.msg3263534#msg3263534

Institute threadcrap fine/sticky for Marketplace & child boards
But "threadcrap" is allowed in the marketplace last time I checked. You're getting ahead of yourself by suggesting to impose fines.

A user just acknowledged and violated this anyway on one of those threads, and was consequently negrated with screenshot. It's as if people think they can commit any act of aggression whatsoever on the internet and get away with it, and act like everyone else are assholes for trying to do business in peace, not wanting flaming bags of crap left on their virtual storefront doorsteps. I don't see threadcrap ever slowing down unless the forum adopts a variant of this rule and stickies it on the Marketplace boards.
To be fair, you cannot prove that the poster read, comprehend and agreed to the message. Your warning is a flimsier version of "I agree" clickwrap agreements. Also, for the situation you mentioned, you could have very well reported the post to a moderator. The post was clearly off topic. There was no need to take the laws into your own hands, issue "fines" to people, and give people negative trust.

I quoted that rule in a PM to him almost immediately, and he didn't delete his post on his own, he signed off! That's pretty close to mens rea to me, unless you can detect that PM I sent is actually unread.

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.

The post I deleted referred to a different cryptocoin's sound so only slightly-offtopic in my mind as it is not a direct competitor to the bitcoin sound but still a sound nonetheless, but as it started off as "Nice try but... {here's this better sound design}" that made it threadcrap IMO.

And I could have sworn I was told off by someone on staff/a moderator that I should just self-mod my threads so I don't constantly have to report threadcrap, and wait for the removal review delay. This may have been via IRC PM so you wouldn't be able to see a record of that.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
b!z
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1582
Merit: 1007



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 04:48:30 AM
 #6

You could try locking your thread after posting the OP, and unlocking & relocking whenever you need to bump.

Of course, offers/questions would have to be in PM then.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
September 30, 2013, 04:54:03 AM
 #7

You could try locking your thread after posting the OP, and unlocking & relocking whenever you need to bump.

Of course, offers/questions would have to be in PM then.

Don't people see locked threads as "offer closed"? Poll added.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 06:55:40 AM
 #8

Don't people see locked threads as "offer closed"? Poll added.

Yes; this is the normal behavior of a person whose request has been fulfilled and does not want to waste anyone's time who might be interested in a job or offer that has already passed, so there's a high chance it would defer potential viewers.

n00ber
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 334
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:01:51 AM
 #9

Threadcrapping is banned on most forums. But This is Bitcointalk.org where freedom is enjoyed by everyone.  Wink
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
September 30, 2013, 10:14:53 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2013, 10:41:05 AM by TheButterZone
 #10

Threadcrapping is banned on most forums. But This is Bitcointalk.org where freedom is enjoyed by everyone.  Wink

Yeah, I've seen enough people who treat the Non-Aggression Principle like toilet paper, like FirstAscent, to know this forum is thoroughly infiltrated by those who would just as soon celebrate Bitcoin being banned by all governments with summary execution, because it doesn't fund aggression if the owner of the BTC doesn't want it to.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
September 30, 2013, 11:32:59 PM
Last edit: September 30, 2013, 11:44:53 PM by TheButterZone
 #11

Well, early results have "When you see a locked Marketplace topic" polling 6-2 in favor of "[I think] the offer is closed". So I can let the poll run longer, or a new solution to threadcrappers can be proposed and perhaps polled upon. In the meantime, I'll just lock my topics and put "(offer open, ignore lock)" in the titles.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
grue
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1208



View Profile
October 01, 2013, 01:22:12 AM
 #12

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Adblock for annoying signature ads | Enhanced Merit UI
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2013, 01:39:25 AM
 #13

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

Defined in my quote in the OP.

*anything negative without first transacting with me*

I was subtly asking how you define threadcrap, and how you define off-topic.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
TradeFortress 🏕
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1023


View Profile
October 01, 2013, 02:20:28 AM
 #14

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

Defined in my quote in the OP.

*anything negative without first transacting with me*

I was subtly asking how you define threadcrap, and how you define off-topic.
I don't think that's appropriate. I can give you a lot of examples:

* Material misrepresentations: You're selling a laptop and you say it has a 2.4 GHz processor, when in reality it only has a 1.8 GHz
* Logistics issues: You offer something recommended as a Christmas gift when there's no chance of something arriving by Christmas Eve
* Same product: You resell an ebook and someone who had bought the ebook before says it's crap.
* Scam alerts: Your pictures turn up in a google image search and is posted by another user.
* Lies by omission: You sell Randomaltcoins with no mention that the network is under a 51% attack for 3 months and the transaction probably won't confirm.

Etc etc. Instituting a threadcrap fine with your definition is a horrible idea. Anything negative to what? I think the forum already has a policy of not allowing your own advertisements, and I think that's ok.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2013, 02:28:05 AM
 #15

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

Defined in my quote in the OP.

*anything negative without first transacting with me*

I was subtly asking how you define threadcrap, and how you define off-topic.
I don't think that's appropriate. I can give you a lot of examples:

* Material misrepresentations: You're selling a laptop and you say it has a 2.4 GHz processor, when in reality it only has a 1.8 GHz
Report OP to mods
* Logistics issues: You offer something recommended as a Christmas gift when there's no chance of something arriving by Christmas Eve
Only a problem the, what, 2 days a year max that overnight shipping shuts down before Christmas? Grasping at straws for an exception to the rule there.
* Same product: You resell an ebook and someone who had bought the ebook before says it's crap.
There aren't review sites for ebooks? Amazon?
* Scam alerts: Your pictures turn up in a google image search and is posted by another user.
Report OP to mods
* Lies by omission: You sell Randomaltcoins with no mention that the network is under a 51% attack for 3 months and the transaction probably won't confirm.
Report OP to mods

Etc etc. Instituting a threadcrap fine with your definition is a horrible idea.

SMH...

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
TradeFortress 🏕
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1023


View Profile
October 01, 2013, 02:31:35 AM
 #16

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

Defined in my quote in the OP.

*anything negative without first transacting with me*

I was subtly asking how you define threadcrap, and how you define off-topic.
I don't think that's appropriate. I can give you a lot of examples:

* Material misrepresentations: You're selling a laptop and you say it has a 2.4 GHz processor, when in reality it only has a 1.8 GHz
Report OP to mods
* Logistics issues: You offer something recommended as a Christmas gift when there's no chance of something arriving by Christmas Eve
Only a problem the, what, 2 days a year max that overnight shipping shuts down before Christmas? Grasping at straws for an exception to the rule there.
* Same product: You resell an ebook and someone who had bought the ebook before says it's crap.
There aren't review sites for ebooks? Amazon?
* Scam alerts: Your pictures turn up in a google image search and is posted by another user.
Report OP to mods
* Lies by omission: You sell Randomaltcoins with no mention that the network is under a 51% attack for 3 months and the transaction probably won't confirm.
Report OP to mods

Etc etc. Instituting a threadcrap fine with your definition is a horrible idea.

SMH...
You do realize that mods don't even delete scams, and it's probably not their job to investigate claims of marketplace scamming?

My opinion is that having open discussion of a product being sold or a service being offered is fine as long as it's not just an advertisement for your own competing offering.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2013, 02:35:19 AM
 #17

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

Defined in my quote in the OP.

*anything negative without first transacting with me*

I was subtly asking how you define threadcrap, and how you define off-topic.
I don't think that's appropriate. I can give you a lot of examples:

* Material misrepresentations: You're selling a laptop and you say it has a 2.4 GHz processor, when in reality it only has a 1.8 GHz
Report OP to mods
* Logistics issues: You offer something recommended as a Christmas gift when there's no chance of something arriving by Christmas Eve
Only a problem the, what, 2 days a year max that overnight shipping shuts down before Christmas? Grasping at straws for an exception to the rule there.
* Same product: You resell an ebook and someone who had bought the ebook before says it's crap.
There aren't review sites for ebooks? Amazon?
* Scam alerts: Your pictures turn up in a google image search and is posted by another user.
Report OP to mods
* Lies by omission: You sell Randomaltcoins with no mention that the network is under a 51% attack for 3 months and the transaction probably won't confirm.
Report OP to mods

Etc etc. Instituting a threadcrap fine with your definition is a horrible idea.

SMH...
You do realize that mods don't even delete scams, and it's probably not their job to investigate claims of marketplace scamming?

My opinion is that having open discussion of a product being sold or a service being offered is fine as long as it's not just an advertisement for your own competing offering.

They don't need to investigate anything, you do when you make the report. PM the OP, if they're unrepentant, link your evidence to the mods, and those clear-cut violations you just described would result in the scam being shut down on any decent forum. But if you have a problem with the mods, then you should have just said "bitcointalk is nothing but chaos with a fake veneer of moderation, so just give up at suggesting improvements" and saved yourself the time of typing all the rest up.

About half of all threadcrap I've received, IIRC, has also advertised competing offerings.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
TradeFortress 🏕
VIP
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1176
Merit: 1023


View Profile
October 01, 2013, 02:37:39 AM
 #18

I'm confused, you say it was clearly off topic and report-worthy, but that threadcrap is "allowed" in the marketplace (impying threadcrap is not report-worthy). What is the difference between "threadcrap" and "off topic" in your mind? I already gave my definition of threadcrap, and my definition of off-topic would be someone talking about elephant mating rituals in a topic about hash rates of BFL ASICs.
Depends on what your definition of threadcrap is. I have met sellers who consider any post that are negative towards their thread to be threadcrap.

Defined in my quote in the OP.

*anything negative without first transacting with me*

I was subtly asking how you define threadcrap, and how you define off-topic.
I don't think that's appropriate. I can give you a lot of examples:

* Material misrepresentations: You're selling a laptop and you say it has a 2.4 GHz processor, when in reality it only has a 1.8 GHz
Report OP to mods
* Logistics issues: You offer something recommended as a Christmas gift when there's no chance of something arriving by Christmas Eve
Only a problem the, what, 2 days a year max that overnight shipping shuts down before Christmas? Grasping at straws for an exception to the rule there.
* Same product: You resell an ebook and someone who had bought the ebook before says it's crap.
There aren't review sites for ebooks? Amazon?
* Scam alerts: Your pictures turn up in a google image search and is posted by another user.
Report OP to mods
* Lies by omission: You sell Randomaltcoins with no mention that the network is under a 51% attack for 3 months and the transaction probably won't confirm.
Report OP to mods

Etc etc. Instituting a threadcrap fine with your definition is a horrible idea.

SMH...
You do realize that mods don't even delete scams, and it's probably not their job to investigate claims of marketplace scamming?

They don't need to investigate anything. PM the OP, if they're unrepentant, link your evidence to the mods, and those clear-cut violations you just described would result in the scam being shut down on any decent forum. But if you have a problem with the mods, then you should have just said "bitcointalk is nothing but chaos with a fake veneer of moderation, so just give up at suggesting improvements" and saved yourself the time of typing all the rest up.

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.
TheButterZone
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2548
Merit: 1011


Pay with SegWit!


View Profile WWW
October 01, 2013, 02:41:13 AM
 #19

There! Easy button.

Please start your own topic about how you think/can demonstrate the mods (synonymous with owner/admin/staff, in my mind) are derelict in moderation, or link me to your one that's already been up for a while.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
grue
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2058
Merit: 1208



View Profile
October 02, 2013, 03:03:38 AM
 #20

[...]

About half of all threadcrap I've received, IIRC, has also advertised competing offerings.
competing offers count as off topic. so what's the other half of the "threadcrap" that you received? legitimate criticisms of your product/service?

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

Adblock for annoying signature ads | Enhanced Merit UI
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!