Should Legendary/Hero/Sr Members be de-ranked? Additional user ranks?

[spiker777]

I know I'll probably get a lot of hate for this, but I'm going to post it anyway.

I agree that the merit system has done wonders for the forum, it essentially acts as a mesh through which only the worthy can squeeze through and make it to the upper user ranks and hence better benefit from being a member on this platform. However, the system doesn't account for those who made it to the upper ranks before the merit system was introduced, and hence have bypassed a great filtering system that may have prevented them reaching their current rank.

I'm sure most of you have seen a few Sr/Hero/Legendary members that still continue to contribute nothing to the forum, or simply spam the forum with referral links, copy-pasted posts or otherwise low quality responses. Currently, a member will require an additional 90 merit to reach Full member, the rank at which people would assume you've at least got the basics of around things operate around here. However I suspect that if you check the amount of merit earned by Sr members+, probably less than 10% would have achieved this amount of merit since the introduction of the merit system over a month ago.

Why should members who happened to register before the introduction of the new system be immune to the difficulties faced by new members? I would even go as far as to suggest that the merit system is almost completely useless once you reach Hero rank, as there is not much difference to make acquiring another 500 merit to go from Hero > Legendary worth it. Once you get to legendary it is definitely useless, as there is no end reward, maybe we should at least get an extra coin or something for the additional merit.

I would suggest a way to resolve this would be to put upper level users on a probation system where they have to gain a certain number of merit over the probation period to maintain their rank, otherwise they get demoted. Also, I would also suggest creating an additional tier of user above Legendary that has additional privileges such as Ultimate or Diamond users at 1500 merit, something to give the old users something to strive towards. I know a probation period for all upper level members would probably cause a big uproar, but I do believe it would be in the best interest of the forum.

Or you could simply implement a minimum merit/month feature to maintain your current rank, if you don't earn a certain amount of merit within the month you drop to the previous user level, this might ensure that even upper level users continue to contribute to the forum, or risk losing their rank. I would be happy to participate in such a scheme as I believe it would force me to focus more about what I write, and how to best help the community.

Opinions are welcome Sorry for the essay. 

[1713993110]

1713993110

[1713993110]

1713993110

[Jet Cash]

Actually many of us don't want to strive for any extra ranking in the forum. What we want to do is to get on with using Bitcoin. and talk about the way we can improve our use and knowledge of it. This useful possibility that could come with membership of the forum seems to be ignored by the vast number of members.

All this wriggling and jiggling so that the influx of immigrants to the forum can sponge off its success is starting to become annoying. It would be great if they could be confined to some of the "give me free money" boards, so that the few new members who want to learn about Bitcoin, and use it, can benefit from the board. Having no merit doesn't stop you talking about Bitcoin and learning, but it does stop you posting that annoying rubbish that stops others from learning.

[TheQuin]

I'm with jet Cash on this one. This is a forum to discuss issues related to Bitcoin. If that is what you use the forum for then the following are true.

1) You will earn plenty of merit.
2) Your rank will not have any impact on your ability to use the forum.

Or you could simply implement a minimum merit/month feature to maintain your current rank, if you don't earn a certain amount of merit within the month you drop to the previous user level......

Seriously dude, do you think satoshi's account should get demoted because he doesn't use it anymore?

[Lauda]

No, I don't think anyone should be de-ranked. What you have contributed remains what it is, it should not be taken away.

Wrong.  Activity/ranks =/= contributions. Then again, given your post history I am not surprised by this comment.
De-ranking is actually a good idea; it goes well with merit points (i.e. more damage to the rot of this forum). However, the proposed requirement is bad.

Or you could simply implement a minimum merit/month feature to maintain your current rank, if you don't earn a certain amount of merit within the month you drop to the previous user level......

Seriously dude, do you think satoshi's account should get demoted because he doesn't use it anymore?

[Alone055]

I don't think it would be reasonable to put users on a monthly probation of earning a certain amount of Merits to stay within the rank, and get demoted if they fail. The Merit system itself is good enough to control the ranks and promotions where you can't get promoted unless you acquire a certain amount of Merits, no matter how much time you spend on the forum.

However, de-ranking old users sounds to be a really interesting idea to me. And I think, it would be even better to de-rank users according to the Merits they have earned until now. I mean, if a Hero member is to be de-ranked, and he has 600+ Merits (100+ gained after the Merit distribution) by the time, he should be de-ranked to Full member, as we know that 100 Merits are required to reach Full member rank. All members should be de-ranked accordingly. And from that point, everyone will need to put equal efforts to reach a higher rank. Hence, there will be no one spared by the effects of Merit system.

P.S: satoshi should be excluded from the list of users to be de-ranked.  

[TMAN]

I don't think it would be reasonable to put users on a monthly probation of earning a certain amount of Merits to stay within the rank, and get demoted if they fail. The Merit system itself is good enough to control the ranks and promotions where you can't get promoted unless you acquire a certain amount of Merits, no matter how much time you spend on the forum.

However, de-ranking old users sound to be a really interesting idea to me. And I think, it would be even better to de-rank users according to the Merits they have earned until now. I mean, if a Hero member is to be de-ranked, and he has 600+ Merits (100+ gained after the Merit distribution) by the time, he should be de-ranked to Full member, as we know that 100 Merits are required to reach Full member rank. All members should be de-ranked accordingly. And from that point, everyone will need to put equal efforts to reach a higher rank. Hence, there will be no one spared by the affects of Merit system.

P.S: satoshi should be excluded from the list of users to be de-ranked.  

I have a better idea. Anyone not a full member, with less than 30 gained merits and who cannot sign an address with more than 5BTC should be IP banned.

That's about as stupid an idea as all these de ranking ideas, worry about yourself guys

[1993jochico]

As a Jr. Member merit that get affected by the merit system, for me it is ok that the elders almost get immuned with this system, Im looking at it as their reward for the loyalty in this forum and their time that they spend here. Though it is too hard for us newbie with this system, but this is for our community so what's good for our community will be also good for us. You are one of those lucky person here for being a senior member before the merit system.

LOVE our community, if we keep tolerating spammers and the creation of many alt accounts it may cause bad for our forum, many people are helped by this forum so its good for me to stop these people from creating many accounts and spam post.

[atrocityx]

TL:DR Every improvement in my mind requires likely coding that the forum isn't capable of.. most of my issues with the system come from what will gain you exposure over just merely helping.. the types of content you create will be more heavily weighted on specific topics (and maybe rightfully so).  Theres things I like about the system and things I don't like.. like many things it comes down to whats right vs whats fair.. and based off of the position you are in currently, you'll be swayed to one side over the other.


Things I like about the system:

1) Hard merit/activity curve, maintains value for getting these ranks and limits competition.
2) Eliminates spam/useless posts, since they don't help you in any way.
3) Rewards early adoption.. simply being in the right place in the right time is the most important thing in life, and this system heavily rewards that to its earliest users.
4) Level up system.. makes the competition of working through the ranks feel rewarding.

Things I don't like about the system:

1) Early adoption outweighs hard work.. a user could be the most creative helpful user on the forum and it would take 2 years to reach activity goals even if merit goal could be reached uncapped early on.
2) Merit system tends to be an example of the rich getting richer.. longer users on the forum who dabble in more advanced topics tend to receive more merit than their newer counterparts.. if certain areas of the forum are weighted more heavily as far as content goes, why even have sections that are viewed unimportant?
3) Topics/infographics or things with more exposure get heavier weighted (I've seen as much as 50-100 merits gained from one post.. I certainly can see more than one.. but 50 merit points is likely 1000+ posts for people who don't heavily post in bitcoin related topics or don't create posts and merely just respond to others).

Observations/Biased Opinions:

1) I think activity should be thrown out if Merit reaches next requirement before activity.. but then people could exploit passing out merits to rank a person quicker (Activity isn't a good indicator of good posts, just more an exploit management system which penalizes new users).
2)I think merit should only be used for people below legendary.. but the system requires Legendary members to dish them out as a sort of trickle down economics. (I don't like this term but I can't think of another way of describing it).
3)I think certain areas should be monitored more often like "For Beginners" section and places noobs feel more comfortable talking.. but most merits are given out in Bitcoin related technical topics that the people who need the most merit are least likely to participate in.
4)I think there's way too many merits given out for people creating posts to farm merits over merits rewarded for helping people and answering questions.  (This is probably because helping people isn't as noticeable as creating posts...especially in noob heavy sections).


To wrap things up I do think the system is working and as much as I don't like certain drawbacks for me specifically, if I was in a position of power the things that could maybe be improved on may be more limited by what the forum coding is actually capable of.. even things that I would consider changing for the sake of fairness would maybe not overall serve the forum better... Its often an issue with most political topics to choose between what is right, and what is fair.. and your forum rank, early adoption, and time spent reaching these ranks will often sway which side you stand on. 

[Jet Cash]

I think certain areas should be monitored more often like "For Beginners" section and places noobs feel more comfortable talking.. but most merits are given out in Bitcoin related technical topics that the people who need the most merit are least likely to participate in.

It's almost worth giving a merit for that comment, except that I suspect it is intended to be a complaint, and not a vindication of the merit system.

I had to check to see if this forum was still called "Bitcoin Talk", and it looks as if it is. I think it's great that merit is being awarded for posts that help people understand and use Bitcoin. Maybe the polluters, who it seems are the ones chasing merit, should take time to learn about Bitcoin, and then they could use this knowlege to earn money elsewhere. if they aren't capable of doing it here.

[coolcoinz]

Those new ideas are starting to look more and more like a political debate where poor people want more money for themselves (merit, ranks, campaign access), with minimum effort (spam), high ranked players are looking down at newbies and their pathetic attempts at making money, while low ranked members want equality and all others brought down to their rank.
It's like the problem with  trust all over again. Those who have positive trust want the system to stay, those with neutral want to get positive, and those with negative want to bring the system down.

[atrocityx]

I think certain areas should be monitored more often like "For Beginners" section and places noobs feel more comfortable talking.. but most merits are given out in Bitcoin related technical topics that the people who need the most merit are least likely to participate in.

It's almost worth giving a merit for that comment, except that I suspect it is intended to be a complaint, and not a vindication of the merit system.

I had to check to see if this forum was still called "Bitcoin Talk", and it looks as if it is. I think it's great that merit is being awarded for posts that help people understand and use Bitcoin. Maybe the polluters, who it seems are the ones chasing merit, should take time to learn about Bitcoin, and then they could use this knowlege to earn money elsewhere. if they aren't capable of doing it here.

Did you view my post as a complaint?  That was not my intention... I realize that it is called Bitcoin Talk and that is its primary objective.. but having certain areas of the forum that are more rewarding is an example in my mind of how fairness has to be just eliminated from the equation.. Most complaints are the system isn't fair.. I think the response should be that the system can't be fair... I was simply just trying to list things with the voices of both sides and how the wishes and demands of both sides can't co-exist.  You can't have easy ranks without spam.  You can't maintain signature rewards if 100,000 users were legendary.  You can't have activity be overwritten by merit because of exploitation even if merit should be weighted higher.  

[InvoKing]

I'm sure most of you have seen a few Sr/Hero/Legendary members that still continue to contribute nothing to the forum, or simply spam the forum with referral links, copy-pasted posts or otherwise low quality responses.  

So, let's say that behaviours you said fit to 99% of the low ranks members VS 10%/30%/99%? of high ranks... Are you trying to make a comparison here between 1.000.000 VS hundreds of accounts?

Currently, a member will require an additional 90 merit to reach Full member, the rank at which people would assume you've at least got the basics of around things operate around here. However I suspect that if you check the amount of merit earned by Sr members+, probably less than 10% would have achieved this amount of merit since the introduction of the merit system over a month ago.

Probably? Give valid statistics and show me! I doubt that 10% of active junior members passed to the member rank if not 1%...
+ some people tend to refrain from giving legendary merit points and prefer giving it to low ranks.

Why should members who happened to register before the introduction of the new system be immune to the difficulties faced by new members?

Because we passed here more than 2-3 years to get our ranks? Because some people have thousands of old posts that could receive hundreds of merit before the update?
It is a long journey between senior member or even a hero to the legendary rank in which you can collect the required merit of the latest rank before even you have its required activity!

I would even go as far as to suggest that the merit system is almost completely useless once you reach Hero rank, as there is not much difference to make acquiring another 500 merit to go from Hero > Legendary worth it. Once you get to legendary it is definitely useless, as there is no end reward, maybe we should at least get an extra coin or something for the additional merit.

LOL'd. Are you talking about the reward in signature campaign...
Yeah, you can add a coin...just place as you want in your avatar...
Why are you so stressed about the ranks?...aww sorry.

I would suggest a way to resolve this would be to put upper level users on a probation system where they have to gain a certain number of merit over the probation period to maintain their rank, otherwise they get demoted. Also, I would also suggest creating an additional tier of user above Legendary that has additional privileges such as Ultimate or Diamond users at 1500 merit, something to give the old users something to strive towards. I know a probation period for all upper level members would probably cause a big uproar, but I do believe it would be in the best interest of the forum.
-snip-
blablabla

I would suggest to nuke users posting in altcoins sections. I would also suggest, if they aren't nuked of course, they should collect at least 100 merit per month in non-altcoins section to maintain the headache that this post gave me when I read it and of course I doesn't mean a word from these stupid ideas that I gave... Rofl. Sometimes I miss the first minutes of the merit system when you could use a bug to give...

I miss also account price estimator and its useful informations (if you know what I mean)

[fanatic26]

Why all this focus on merit and ranks when its all useless garbage?

Until they stop this sig campaign garbage and stop letting people sell accounts the forum will always be filled with crap.

This board should be about crypto and not about how much money you can make spamming sigs and other garbage.

Its like putting a sign in the middle of the city telling all the bums where to come scavenge change.

[figmentofmyass]

I would suggest a way to resolve this would be to put upper level users on a probation system where they have to gain a certain number of merit over the probation period to maintain their rank, otherwise they get demoted.

so old hands who are on vacation (or dead) during the "probation period" get demoted?

are we demoting hal finney from senior member? he's only received 26 merit.

you're basically erasing all contributions that people made to the forum between 2010 and 2017. the people that made this forum great once. screw that. old hands shouldn't be penalized just because most new members are spammers.

[TheQuin]

I don't think it would be reasonable to put users on a monthly probation of earning a certain amount of Merits to stay within the rank, and get demoted if they fail. The Merit system itself is good enough to control the ranks and promotions where you can't get promoted unless you acquire a certain amount of Merits, no matter how much time you spend on the forum.

However, de-ranking old users sound to be a really interesting idea to me. And I think, it would be even better to de-rank users according to the Merits they have earned until now. I mean, if a Hero member is to be de-ranked, and he has 600+ Merits (100+ gained after the Merit distribution) by the time, he should be de-ranked to Full member, as we know that 100 Merits are required to reach Full member rank. All members should be de-ranked accordingly. And from that point, everyone will need to put equal efforts to reach a higher rank. Hence, there will be no one spared by the affects of Merit system.

P.S: satoshi should be excluded from the list of users to be de-ranked.  

I have a better idea. Anyone not a full member, with less than 30 gained merits and who cannot sign an address with more than 5BTC should be IP banned.

That's about as stupid an idea as all these de ranking ideas, worry about yourself guys

At first I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a de-ranking system that would work but after sleeping on it I think I might have got it.

The forum should hire in addition to moderators a new elite group of Shitpost Scrutineers (The SS for short). It would be their job to monitor all sections of the forum but focus on the spam megathreads and award -1 merit for every shitpost they find. Any account would be instantly demoted to the rank their new merit count earned and if they reached a negative merit count they would be nuked.

[TMAN]

At first I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a de-ranking system that would work but after sleeping on it I think I might have got it.

The forum should hire in addition to moderators a new elite group of Shitpost Scrutineers (The SS for short). It would be their job to monitor all sections of the forum but focus on the spam megathreads and award -1 merit for every shitpost they find. Any account would be instantly demoted to the rank their new merit count earned and if they reached a negative merit count they would be nuked.

How about anyone below the rank of full member who uses the word merit gets nuked? could be automated.. would remove 5 billion threads and posts.

[Jet Cash]

At first I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a de-ranking system that would work but after sleeping on it I think I might have got it.

The forum should hire in addition to moderators a new elite group of Shitpost Scrutineers (The SS for short). It would be their job to monitor all sections of the forum but focus on the spam megathreads and award -1 merit for every shitpost they find. Any account would be instantly demoted to the rank their new merit count earned and if they reached a negative merit count they would be nuked.

How about anyone below the rank of full member who uses the word merit gets nuked? could be automated.. would remove 5 billion threads and posts.

You just beat me to it, except that I was going to suggest they went back to junior, or maybe we could have a fema rank ( failed to embrace merit awards)

[TMAN]

At first I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a de-ranking system that would work but after sleeping on it I think I might have got it.

The forum should hire in addition to moderators a new elite group of Shitpost Scrutineers (The SS for short). It would be their job to monitor all sections of the forum but focus on the spam megathreads and award -1 merit for every shitpost they find. Any account would be instantly demoted to the rank their new merit count earned and if they reached a negative merit count they would be nuked.

How about anyone below the rank of full member who uses the word merit gets nuked? could be automated.. would remove 5 billion threads and posts.

You just beat me to it, except that I was going to suggest they went back to junior, or maybe we could have a fema rank ( failed to embrace merit awards)

nope just ban the window licking entitled arse holes.

[KWH]

Why not eliminate all Rank and DT. At the same time, ban ALL sig campaigns and account farming. I'd gladly trade Rank and DT for that.

[solovev]

Why should members who happened to register before the introduction of the new system be immune to the difficulties faced by new members? I would even go as far as to suggest that the merit system is almost completely useless once you reach Hero rank, as there is not much difference to make acquiring another 500 merit to go from Hero > Legendary worth it. Once you get to legendary it is definitely useless, as there is no end reward, maybe we should at least get an extra coin or something for the additional merit.

I would suggest a way to resolve this would be to put upper level users on a probation system where they have to gain a certain number of merit over the probation period to maintain their rank, otherwise they get demoted. Also, I would also suggest creating an additional tier of user above Legendary that has additional privileges such as Ultimate or Diamond users at 1500 merit, something to give the old users something to strive towards. I know a probation period for all upper level members would probably cause a big uproar, but I do believe it would be in the best interest of the forum.

Here is what I think about this :

1) The purpose of merit system was to remove spam posts from this forum. It has succeed to some extent but only new members are compelled to follow this as they need merits to rank up. Those at the highest ranks need not work for any merit as they have no need to do so. This is certainly not fair and should be fixed.

2) I had seen some of the posts by high ranked members who are not able to even frame correct sentences while posting here. They should be de-ranked asap so they the have a reason to improve.