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Author Topic: Professional rig 2000 - I've the same setup but can't keep it cool  (Read 2864 times)
BitcoinRigs.com
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July 23, 2011, 06:51:15 AM
 #21

Big reply incoming:

What a rip off. Their case with no cards is $1099?! My 4-card rigs cost $394 before cards and that's case/cpu/mb/ram/disk/fans/psu.
So you can run 3x 6990s in your $394 rig (and keep them cooled)? If not, it doesn't matter what it cost you, it's not comparable.

I'm gonna be honest here. I don't see how any of your rigs, especially the rental one, is anything close to cost effective. You're charging $100 over retail...
Sure. Please post a link of an online shop that has 6990s in stock.

Still waiting....

Used 6990s are going for more than retail on eBay. Used. "retail" pricing is meaningless for 6990s. If the 6990s were in regular supply we wouldn't have to charge what we do. A lot of time, effort, and money is put into obtaining the 6990s that we do sell. And we're still heavily backlogged on orders for them.

for 6990 cards and the rental rigs would barely even break even at 3 months for the cost of the contract. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe you can explain the financial benefit and cost/performance analysis that shows them being profitable for the buyer at the current difficultly level.
This thread is about the Pro Rig, so I'll address that. You can get into bitcoins one of two ways, buy or mine. Some people like to buy, some like to mine. Our product is for people who want to mine, but don't have the time/patience/skill/etc. to build a rig on their own. Researching parts, ordering parts, assembling the parts, dealing with DOA parts. For many people, their time is worth something. If the OP had bought his Rig from us, he wouldn't be posting this thread, he would be happily mining away.


Our Pro Rig with 3x 6990s typically run under 80c, in a room at 25c. That's plenty cool enough for 6990s.
eh... how about some pictures and some live videos?
Ok, here's one I stuck on a table a couple hours ago. Temps between 67c and 78c. No AC at all. Summer in the Bay Area at a pleasant 25c.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3924/coolprorig.jpg


as Reckman said...

I also said half a year ago (or so) that those setups are good only on pictures and maybe in refrigerated rooms.

Sorry Vladimir, but you're wrong, and we have the sales to prove it. No, they don't need to be in refrigerated rooms.

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Vladimir
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July 23, 2011, 10:00:50 AM
 #22

I am not arguing about usefulness of BitcoinRigs services or their prices. In previous post it was covered by BitcoinRigs just fine. I also think that any merchant shall be able to set up the prices as they see fit. If the price is wrong the market will take care of that merchant and his prices one way or another.

However, since it was said that I am wrong on something. I am curious and have a few questions.

1. Which power supply is used for 3 6990's, or at least what is the wattage 1200 1250 1500?
2. In which position the BIOS switch on the cards is?
3. How many Mhps the cards are doing while they are so cool?
4. For how long was it running before the photo was taken?

BTW sales do not prove anything about cooling of this beast.

Now if you get less than 400x6 = 2.4 Ghps out of 3 cards, I hardly can call it a nice cooling solution. And I would think that you will not be able (not oven close) to cool 3 6990 doing 400 Mhps per core.

I guess that your answers would be stock position of the switch; stock clocks; 1500W PSU; about 2 Ghps. Which is less than impressive on performance and still suspect on sustained cooling.

Of, course when I discarded this solution long ago, I was thinking about running a few dozens of rigs in one room which is a bit different from running one rig per room.






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haploid23
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July 23, 2011, 11:08:25 AM
 #23

Vladimir, based on the picture, each GPU is working at ~341mhash/s and temps range from 67C - 79C. although how long it has been running before taking that pic makes a huge difference because it takes time for the room temperatures and case temps to reach thermal equilibrium

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July 23, 2011, 05:58:18 PM
 #24

Vladimir, based on the picture, each GPU is working at ~341mhash/s and temps range from 67C - 79C. although how long it has been running before taking that pic makes a huge difference because it takes time for the room temperatures and case temps to reach thermal equilibrium
Like I said, it was running for several hours when I took the pic. You can calculate just how long by looking at how many shares were submitted. It is still running this morning, with max temp at 75c now.

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July 23, 2011, 06:15:51 PM
 #25

However, since it was said that I am wrong on something.
You are absolutely wrong in claiming "good only on pictures and maybe in refrigerated rooms." If you want to change what you said and add all sorts of qualifiers, go right ahead.

BTW sales do not prove anything about cooling of this beast.
Sure it does. It shows that we have actually built and sold lots of these Rigs that are kept cool in normal rooms. Whereas all you have offered is what, an opinion? You "suspect" it doesn't work? We have sales and screenshots to prove it does.

Now if you get less than 400x6 = 2.4 Ghps out of 3 cards, I hardly can call it a nice cooling solution. And I would think that you will not be able (not oven close) to cool 3 6990 doing 400 Mhps per core.
Ah, so now you want to change it to "kept cool while overclocked"? Feel free to start another thread for overclocking 6990s. This one is about non-overclocked 3x 6990s.

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July 23, 2011, 07:02:49 PM
 #26

However, since it was said that I am wrong on something.
You are absolutely wrong in claiming "good only on pictures and maybe in refrigerated rooms." If you want to change what you said and add all sorts of qualifiers, go right ahead.

BTW sales do not prove anything about cooling of this beast.
Sure it does. It shows that we have actually built and sold lots of these Rigs that are kept cool in normal rooms. Whereas all you have offered is what, an opinion? You "suspect" it doesn't work? We have sales and screenshots to prove it does.

Now if you get less than 400x6 = 2.4 Ghps out of 3 cards, I hardly can call it a nice cooling solution. And I would think that you will not be able (not oven close) to cool 3 6990 doing 400 Mhps per core.
Ah, so now you want to change it to "kept cool while overclocked"? Feel free to start another thread for overclocking 6990s. This one is about non-overclocked 3x 6990s.


Don't get your panties in a bunch. We're just skeptical about the claims for cooling and the cost per Mhash that is required for the rig to be profitable to the buyer - as it is obviously profitable to the seller (you). I'm all for people selling quality gear and helping people get into mining - I think what is going on in this thread is that you have some big claims and aren't showing enough proof to back them up. This could be put to rest if you made a video that shows a standard size room, say 12x12 or 15x15, with however many 3x6990 rigs you purport to be able to keep cool in a non-airconditioned room, with the rigs running as fast as you say they can run for at least an hour straight. We'd need to see ambient temp, GPU core temps, and 'inside the case' temps. The proof needs to show that you can run $x 6990 cards in $y number of rigs in a regular room without some out of the ordinary cooling system.

Of course you don't have to prove anything to us if you don't want to. Sales do show that you have been successful selling those rigs, but the proof about the cooling ability and overall system stability of the rigs with 3x6990 needs to be shown to back up what you are claiming.

<luke-jr> Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.
Vladimir
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July 23, 2011, 07:42:40 PM
 #27

Well..., if I in the first place surround all my statements with all qualifiers my posts would be more like legal papers. Lots can be derived out of the context, though.

IMO running 6990's at 400 Mhps per core is the standard mode for 6990's. As such it is your responsibility to have qualifiers in your ads and be str8 from the beginning describing your product. Anything else is misleading and exactly the reason why people doubt your claims.



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BitcoinRigs.com
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July 23, 2011, 07:49:38 PM
 #28

We're just skeptical about the claims for cooling
Already addressed by my screenshot.

and the cost per Mhash that is required for the rig to be profitable to the buyer
We sell computers. We do not sell money making machines, nor do we make any sort of "profitability" claims of said computers.

the proof about the cooling ability and overall system stability of the rigs with 3x6990 needs to be shown to back up what you are claiming.
My screenshot shows shares submitted to establish how long the system was running (several hours), GPU clock speeds, GPU hashrates, GPU temperatures, room temperature on the clock, with a closed case on a table. There's no other hidden cooling system, AC unit, mega-fans, etc. That pretty well denounces the claims in this thread that it "can't" work. You're welcome to drop by our shop in the Bay Area if you want to see it yourself.

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July 23, 2011, 08:03:21 PM
 #29

IMO running 6990's at 400 Mhps per core is the standard mode for 6990's.
It's a fact that 340 Mhps per core is just fine for a 6990 as shipped by the OEMs. If you want to remove the warning sticker and apply the overclocking settings, that's your business, not ours. We never claimed to be selling overclockable systems.

As such it is your responsibility to have qualifiers in your ads and be str8 from the beginning describing your product. Anything else is misleading and exactly the reason why people doubt your claims.
Here, let me link you the product page again.

http://www.bitcoinrigs.com/products/Professional-Rig-2000.html

Let me know which claim is misleading. Where have I been unclear?

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July 23, 2011, 10:57:32 PM
 #30

Running 6990's at 340mhash/s per core makes no financial sense. You are paying $800-$1000 to achieve something two Sapphire 5850's will do for 250 dollars with much less external cooling (if any) needed. The initial investment takes 4 times as long to pay off

Even the saved extra PCI-e space doesn't justify it.

There is zero reason to mine bitcoins on 6990 cards unless you are aiming to get at least equal performance to two 6970's (400-430mhash/s per core)

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July 24, 2011, 04:34:31 AM
 #31

We sell computers. We do not sell money making machines, nor do we make any sort of "profitability" claims of said computers.

Actually, selling mining rigs is specifically and by definition selling money making machines. The whole purpose to buy a rig, whether you build it yourself or buy it assembled, you are buying hardware who's only purpose is to produce bitcoins to generate income. Mining serves no other purpose but to make money and heat. So far it sounds like you are selling expensive heat machines that can't generate enough Mhash to cover the cost of the equipment in sufficient time as to be worth while for someone to buy vs buying hardware from newegg and assembling.

Let's all agree on one thing - putting together components from newegg or other places and getting a bootable system is not rocket science. Even total newbs can learn the basics and have a working machine in a couple of hours at most.

If you want to sell hardware, that's great. If you claim to sell mining rigs but say they aren't made for making money that's just, well, kind of BS. Even on your rig rental page you say "This is the safest way to obtain to steady stream of freshly minted BitCoins. No bad-luck streaks. No downtime. No hassle." Claiming to have the safest way to generate BTC is quite a claim as well.

<luke-jr> Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.
Vladimir
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July 24, 2011, 05:57:42 AM
 #32

As such it is your responsibility to have qualifiers in your ads and be str8 from the beginning describing your product. Anything else is misleading and exactly the reason why people doubt your claims.
Here, let me link you the product page again.

http://www.bitcoinrigs.com/products/Professional-Rig-2000.html

Let me know which claim is misleading. Where have I been unclear?

Here we go, now we know why we had misunderstanding. My post has been made in context of this thread located on bitcoin.org -> Mining -> Hardware FYI. Your claims are made HERE but somehow in context of your storefront website i.e. miner vs. salesman.

Therefore, I would say that if you claim HERE that your rigs are adequately cooled than IMO it is you are the one who shall surround your claim with all the kinds of qualifiers like "no more than 340 Mhps per core or it melts"  Grin . At the same time my claim along the lines of "not going to work, unless in refrigerated room" stands in context of this thread by itself.

Moreover, I thought it is obvious, that my claim was made in context of this thread, in general, about 3x6990's in such cases. See for example, reference to half year ago. Your biz was not even on-line than yet. It is you who than came here and claimed that I am wrong and brought up your website and sales as arguments.

The original statement I have supported is "you cant cool 3x 6990s in a conventional case." and I still stand by it.

Defence along the lines of "I am not selling mining rigs" in context of this thread is also laughable.

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July 24, 2011, 02:12:42 PM
 #33

+1 Vladimir

-1 Bitcoinrigs.com

Why don't you make something people can't easily purchase and put together, like a custom 6x 5770 rig/case ext, then your overpricing might not be so absurd.
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July 25, 2011, 01:40:30 AM
 #34

With that money you could literally put together your own gaming-grade machine with 3x6990s...

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July 25, 2011, 05:42:16 AM
 #35

The original statement I have supported is "you cant cool 3x 6990s in a conventional case." and I still stand by it.
You're welcome to stand by your opinion all you want, but it isn't supported by facts.

The facts are: our Professional Rig includes 3x 6990s running at stock performance and is adequately cooled in a conventional closed case.

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July 25, 2011, 04:06:38 PM
 #36

The original statement I have supported is "you cant cool 3x 6990s in a conventional case." and I still stand by it.
You're welcome to stand by your opinion all you want, but it isn't supported by facts.

The facts are: our Professional Rig includes 3x 6990s running at stock performance and is adequately cooled in a conventional closed case.

Care to answer the OP about why his rig - the same model and same cards you are selling in the "Professional Rig" - are overheating on stock settings?

<luke-jr> Catholics do not believe in freedom of religion.
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