Avalon 55nm ASIC open source design contest

[ProfMac]

Avalon has announced a design contest.

The timeline is very compressed.  I thought this would be a good place to gather any thoughts that potential customers have for design elements, and any comments that other designers / contestants have to make.

The break-even time matters as well.  More cool features cost design delay and component cost.  A URL for a pre-populated calculator might help the designers decide whether to push an adequate design out now, or spend more time cutting costs.

The only design element that is fixed is the 55 nm Avalon ASIC chip.  Everything else is designer's discretion.

This is a self-moderated thread.  Please stay civil and on topic.

The chip is specified as 1 GH/s @ 2.05 W with 128 Hash units on the chip.

I have not noticed any pricing information.  You might want to submit a URL for a profit calculator that will suggest the time to break even that you consider realistic.

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[greaterninja]

Avalon has announced a design contest.

The timeline is very compressed.  I thought this would be a good place to gather any thoughts that potential customers have for design elements, and any comments that other designers / contestants have to make.

The break-even time matters as well.  More cool features cost design delay and component cost.  A URL for a pre-populated calculator might help the designers decide whether to push an adequate design out now, or spend more time cutting costs.

The only design element that is fixed is the 55 nm Avalon ASIC chip.  Everything else is designer's discretion.

This is a self-moderated thread.  Please stay civil and on topic.

The chip is specified as 1 GH/s @ 2.05 W with 128 Hash units on the chip.

I have not noticed any pricing information.  You might want to submit a URL for a profit calculator that will suggest the time to break even that you consider realistic.

Even with a 5,000 x 55nm chip prize I think Avalon will have issues attracting participants.  Why?   Because they are not honorable business people.  They have been negligent and dishonest.  If I could design PCB, I might do this...but I am looking this from a 3rd person perspective.

[ProfMac]

Avalon has announced a design contest.

The timeline is very compressed.  I thought this would be a good place to gather any thoughts that potential customers have for design elements, and any comments that other designers / contestants have to make.

The break-even time matters as well.  More cool features cost design delay and component cost.  A URL for a pre-populated calculator might help the designers decide whether to push an adequate design out now, or spend more time cutting costs.

The only design element that is fixed is the 55 nm Avalon ASIC chip.  Everything else is designer's discretion.

This is a self-moderated thread.  Please stay civil and on topic.

The chip is specified as 1 GH/s @ 2.05 W with 128 Hash units on the chip.

I have not noticed any pricing information.  You might want to submit a URL for a profit calculator that will suggest the time to break even that you consider realistic.

Even with a 5,000 x 55nm chip prize I think Avalon will have issues attracting participants.  Why?   Because they are not honorable business people.  They have been negligent and dishonest.  If I could design PCB, I might do this...but I am looking this from a 3rd person perspective.

I have applied to be a participant, and I have been accepted.  This puts me into a conflict of interest situation if I trash talk Avalon and actively discourage other entrants.  So again, please, stay on topic in this thread.

[fasmax]

I would think that burnin could submit a slightly modified version of his design and win quit easily.
The Bitburner XX design is a good one and it's all ready done.
 
 

[Unacceptable]

Thread is for "Pro-Avalon" only 

[ProfMac]

I would think that burnin could submit a slightly modified version of his design and win quit easily.
The Bitburner XX design is a good one and it's all ready done.
 
 

Burnin has done an outstanding job, and it would be very satisfying if he won the chips.

However, there must be at least 3 ways that his, or anyone's, design concept could be improved. 

[fasmax]

I am sure burnin knows the shortcomings of his own design.
It should be easy for him to make the improvements.
He's one busy guy and maybe not interested.

[ScaryHash]

What a load of crap.

Avalon states that open source designs were never really completed, but at lot of them got delayed because Avalon didn't ship the chips on time, so people lost interest.

Duh !

Oh and, despite the fiasco, the open source designs were/are ready, just delayed.

Amazing cause and effect, delay shipping the chips, and the designs get delayed. Who would have thought of that ? 

[fractal02]

What a load of crap.

Avalon states that open source designs were never really completed, but at lot of them got delayed because Avalon didn't ship the chips on time, so people lost interest.

Duh !

Oh and, despite the fiasco, the open source designs were/are ready, just delayed.

Amazing cause and effect, delay shipping the chips, and the designs get delayed. Who would have thought of that ? 

+ 1

A lot of money was lost...
Terrahash ? no ...anyone ?
And it's not the only project affected.

Good luck to find someone for this "open source" design contest...

As you can see, not a lot of enthusiastic designer on your thread...

Avalon is dead, don't fool the community.end of line

[HorseRider]

Avalon has announced a design contest.

The timeline is very compressed.  I thought this would be a good place to gather any thoughts that potential customers have for design elements, and any comments that other designers / contestants have to make.

The break-even time matters as well.  More cool features cost design delay and component cost.  A URL for a pre-populated calculator might help the designers decide whether to push an adequate design out now, or spend more time cutting costs.

The only design element that is fixed is the 55 nm Avalon ASIC chip.  Everything else is designer's discretion.

This is a self-moderated thread.  Please stay civil and on topic.

The chip is specified as 1 GH/s @ 2.05 W with 128 Hash units on the chip.

I have not noticed any pricing information.  You might want to submit a URL for a profit calculator that will suggest the time to break even that you consider realistic.

So OP has great confidence that Av-ass-alon will pay after other people finishing the open source job  just as the unfold lots of words before, like trade-in, 8~10 lead time promise, refunding promise 

I h

[Nemesis]

I dont even understand why OP make this thread.

I lost respect if he indeed support Avalon in ANYWAY.

Time for US to learn how Chinese work. Eventually they will fuck all the western countries. Yeah keep pushing production over China....

[ProfMac]

I dont even understand why OP make this thread.

I lost respect if he indeed support Avalon in ANYWAY.

Time for US to learn how Chinese work. Eventually they will fuck all the western countries. Yeah keep pushing production over China....

I am prepared to put my own time into a design.  It is entirely at my own risk.  This thread is an opportunity for people to say what they would like.  The design concepts can be carried to other chips, and are not Avalon specific.

Do you want a small, 1 chip, affordable unit?
Do you want the units to be expandable?
Do you think the ability to directly mine bitcoins is valuable, in case it becomes very difficult to buy them?

If I do make a successful design, you will not be buying from Avalon, but from me. 

[Bicknellski]

Why anyone would support their efforts for an open source design contest after they pretty much ruined the momentum with fraudulent behaviour is beyond me. Close the thread and stop giving Avalon cover and a means to rehabilitate their brand. Let them clean up the mess the right way. REPAY those DIYers they screwed with some free 2nd Gen chips. Sorry but there are still people pretty screwed up financially because of what they have done. It is really in bad form to even entertain their offer. They have not properly explained why those chips never made it to the right owners on time and to be honest it ruined the mood of community for future DIY projects. Suggest we ignore them entirely. They got 3 pretty good designs from 3 pretty good designers and they crapped on them. Sorry they don't deserve support from the DIY community at all.

[ProfMac]

Why anyone would support their efforts for an open source design contest after they pretty much ruined the momentum with fraudulent behaviour is beyond me. Close the thread and stop giving Avalon cover and a means to rehabilitate their brand. Let them clean up the mess the right way. REPAY those DIYers they screwed with some free 2nd Gen chips. Sorry but there are still people pretty screwed up financially because of what they have done. It is really in bad form to even entertain their offer. They have not properly explained why those chips never made it to the right owners on time and to be honest it ruined the mood of community for future DIY projects. Suggest we ignore them entirely. They got 3 pretty good designs from 3 pretty good designers and they crapped on them. Sorry they don't deserve support from the DIY community at all.

When I bought my Batch #2 Avalon, the delivery was estimated for mid March, and the earnings were projected to be $16,000 the first month.  My wife has Alzheimer's, that anticipated money played a large role in my plans;  I have a personal familiarity with the failed hopes surrounding Avalon.

If the continuing negative posts discourage everyone else from entering the contest, I stand to win the contest as the only entrant, but it is dishonorable for me to pursue that approach and I ask you not to bash Avalon in this thread.  With a lot of free chips, I can sell miners that will make break-even for my customers.  If I fail to win, I still have the design.  I have done a previous DIY microprocessor design.  I did it without asking anyone what they would want it to do.  This time I thought I would ask first.

You have the option to be so angry with Avalon that you wouldn't take a life jacket from them if you were drowning.  I think my karate training tells me to approach every attack with an empty mind, and to find where it gives the advantage to me.

------

Again, if you could ask for certain things in a design based on a small number of chips, what would it be?

WiFi?
LAN?
USB?

Fan or No moving parts?

Separate assemblies for chip and voltage regulator, to allow stacking?

Daughter board for TP-Link 703n style controller, or custom CPU & system?

[shapemaker]

Respectfully, ProfMac, I don't understand why you keep endorsing Avalon after all the bullshit the liars and cheats managed to conjure up. Avalon destroyed their image all by themselves - let them also try to build their image back all by themselves.

There really is no point in trying to "help" them in any way. They don't deserve that. All the respect they built by being the first successful ASIC company in this niche is dead, gone and buried. Let the dead horse be lest you zombify it further.

[Bicknellski]

Respectfully, ProfMac, I don't understand why you keep endorsing Avalon after all the bullshit the liars and cheats managed to conjure up. Avalon destroyed their image all by themselves - let them also try to build their image back all by themselves.

There really is no point in trying to "help" them in any way. They don't deserve that. All the respect they built by being the first successful ASIC company in this niche is dead, gone and buried. Let the dead horse be lest you zombify it further.

+1

Not going to stretch the point out further but really the best way to support the community at this point is not give Avalon any unnecessary or undeserved help. I am not angry with your choice I am disappointed that anyone would support Avalon given the damage they have caused to 100s if not 1000s of people.

[marto74]

I think it's pointless to make a pro/cons posts for Avalon.
So We are in , already approved to participate in this contest
Let's hope this time Avalon will manage to recover .
 

[Bicknellski]

I think it's pointless to make a pro/cons posts for Avalon.
So We are in , already approved to participate in this contest
Let's hope this time Avalon will manage to recover .
  

Sad to see people turn their backs on those in the community that were seriously injured by this company and given their pattern I submit this will also end in grief. I wish you the best of luck in the contest but the other point would be why build a 55nm chip board that no one will buy or produce as there is absolutely no chance for any profit in it for a miner ever given the difficulty increases? Would your time not be better spent on other chips?

[fractal02]

@ ProfMac : OK....here my advice anyway :

- make it modular

Look at bitfury H-board and Rig, it's the perfect way.

[af_newbie]

@ ProfMac : OK....here my advice anyway :

- make it modular

Look at bitfury H-board and Rig, it's the perfect way.

+1  Keep the chips spaced, oversize the board, keep them cool by air.

H-card is pretty good design.  Make the M-board like USB/Avalon hub.
Run it from anything that can access your "USB hub".

[aTg]

@ ProfMac : OK....here my advice anyway :

- make it modular

Look at bitfury H-board and Rig, it's the perfect way.

+1

I manufactured and assembled 15 Avalons, wired, control units and heatsinks and is the worst design I've ever found, much worse than the old FPGAs.

[Syke]

The chip is specified as 1 GH/s @ 2.05 W with 128 Hash units on the chip.

This chip is DOA. There are already better chips available today. Why wait months for an inferior chip from a supplier with a horrible track record?

[Unacceptable]

@ ProfMac : OK....here my advice anyway :

- make it modular

Look at bitfury H-board and Rig, it's the perfect way.

Yes,make it complicated please...........backplane=more money,a RSPi=more money,an unusual power supply config= ........Oh you'll need a pretty case too=more money,& a PITA interface=just a PITA  

[Fyuri]

"55nm open source design contest is set to close on Nov 30th"

Is there just a winner?

[AndiDC]

Hi, what's the future plan for avalon now?
BITMAIN has sold over 100 Units probably using Avalon2 chips and they run quite well. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355755.0)

@ProfMac
I'd appreciate mining cards to replace the 130nm cards in my Avalons. This would be just perfect for all Avalon users, because they could use their old devices and parts like PSU, TPlink and case with the new cards. Do you think this is possible?
As far as I undestand it, a similar working card like the ones in the first gen avalons could do around 4 times more than the old ones with the same energy consumption. An Avalon Mini would have 240 GHash/s and an Avalon with 4 cards even 480 GHash/s. This is almost the power of a KNC Jupiter with around 2 W/GHash
Please correct my if i'm wrong!

The mining plan for an Avalon Mini could look like this:

Hashrate GHash/s	Increase interval days	Increase factor (25%)	Today
480,00000000	12,00	1,25000000
BTC/day	Days in this diff	difficulty	Date of diff change	BTC cumulative with diff increase
0,34106763	10,39	707.408.283	29.11.2013
0,27285410	22,39	884.260.354	09.12.2013	7,63906137
0,21828328	34,39	1.105.325.442	21.12.2013	10,91331062
0,17462663	46,39	1.381.656.803	02.01.2014	13,53271002
0,13970130	58,39	1.727.071.003	14.01.2014	15,62822954
0,11176104	70,39	2.158.838.754	26.01.2014	17,30464515
0,08940883	82,39	2.698.548.443	07.02.2014	18,64577765
0,07152707	94,39	3.373.185.554	19.02.2014	19,71868364
0,05722165	106,39	4.216.481.942	03.03.2014	20,57700843
0,04577732	118,39	5.270.602.427	15.03.2014	21,26366827

[klondike_bar]

Hi, what's the future plan for avalon now?
BITMAIN has sold over 100 Units probably using Avalon2 chips and they run quite well. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355755.0)

they are not using avalon chips - do your research

[AndiDC]

Yep, already seen...
but it'd be nice to replace the avalon 130nm boards...