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Author Topic: A Proposal for a New Kind of Coin  (Read 1568 times)
hulk
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October 10, 2013, 02:48:44 AM
 #21

The problem with Bitcoin, as I see it, is the difficulty factor increasing. I have spent a sizable investment in mining equipment, been burnt by butteryfly labs, and still haven't received anything form them yet, etc.
I started with Radeon 7970 cards 4 in each computer, and bought 4 computers thats 16 cards at 500 bucks, do the math. I had problems with blowing circuits and resetting breakers.
Then when I could get my hands on USB block erupters (Asic) I bought as many as I could afford (120), The price dropped tremendously after buying a bunch, and boy trying to keep all of them running and  in good shape is a full time job.
working with them I saw my profits increase, only to steadilly decrease as the difficulty increases.
I bought ASICMiner Blades (10) so now I'm in the 130+ GH/s realm, but now I'm getting about the same amount of coin per day as when I had with the video cards.
I've spent too much money on the hardware only to be getting nowhere.

I propose a new crypto currency based on the SHA256 that never increases in difficulty, there are no limits to the number of coins you can mine, that as long as you have hardware mining, you will get coins. The reason I have chosen Sha256 is because ASIC mining hardware can only mine it. When bitcoin shuts down people will need to mine a currency that wont shut down because they don't want to waste their investment.

So if anyone else has any ideas what would be a perfect coin, or join in the discussion please respond below.

No, cause there will be too much coin and inflation will kick in hard and in the end the coin has no value.

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October 10, 2013, 02:55:09 AM
 #22

There actually is already at least one coin with a difficulty that never changes: liquidcoin.

Basically instead of higher and higher difficulty as more and more people mine harder and harder you just get more and more orphans, since everyone is creating hundreds or thousands or more blocks every second...

So if difficulty doesn't change in your "ideal coin" you'll be complaining about orphans instead of difficulty, and costing a massive amount more bandwidth too of course for no greater chance of getting coins unless your plan is to simply hand out coins to everyone in proportion to how much mining gear they have, in which case you might as well just sell them the mining gear with all the coins it will mine in its lifetime already included. The gear can be an envelope, the coins be a private key included in the envelope. Save on electricity! People buy the gear aka envelope and instantly "mine" the coins by opening it!

If you want to spread the coins out over a "lifetime" of the "mining gear" the envelope can contain a whole bunch of crypted keys, and the secrets to how to decrypt them be released to them over time...

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October 10, 2013, 03:18:28 AM
 #23

Think of it this way, inflation is growth.

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markm
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October 10, 2013, 03:25:05 AM
 #24

Oh we have lots of coins that "inflate". GRouPcoin, DeVCoin, I think maybe CoiLedCoin and GeistGeld too, plus even a bunch of the scrypt coins.

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October 10, 2013, 03:27:04 AM
 #25

LiquidCoin is a scrypt based coin.
The proposal I have is for sha-256 because the ASIC hardware coming online need an alternate coin that they can mine without worrying about their equipment becoming unfruitful.

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markm
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October 10, 2013, 03:30:56 AM
 #26

That is part of the beauty of merged mining!

Even as some of the coins that are merged mined by the most people start returning you less and less coins, you still have merged coins you can mine that a lot of people are not bothering with yet. So basically as profit margins get smaller and smaller the edge you can get by mining another merged coin that other people are not bothering with will become more and more significant.

RIght now people look at merged coins and think "oh less than one percent, why bother" but when one percent is all they make they will look again and go like "wow a fraction of a percent, every fraction counts, how was I such an idiot as to have ignored that many basis points (hundredths of a percent) for so long, silly me!"

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October 10, 2013, 03:39:20 AM
 #27

You apparently don't understand currency very well.  If there is an infinite supply of currency, then it will have zero value, because why would I trade something for it when it is infinite and I can get some basically for free on my own.  Look up the history of Zimbabwe's currency for a good example of what happens in hyper-inflation.

The dificulty of bitcoin to mine makes it harder to get and people want it because they can trade it for things of real value.  Look at the tons of altcoins that are basically worth nothing because the only thing you can do with them is trade for bitcoins, and at that point you might as well just have mined bitcoins.

Yes but currencies to do rise in value, and if a coin that was worthless some time ago gains value, you could be sitting on a gold mine. I heard some kid bought 400 bitcoin when it was low and forgot about it, later sold it for $60,000.

That's a better gain than most investments these days.

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October 10, 2013, 03:42:03 AM
 #28

You apparently don't understand currency very well.  If there is an infinite supply of currency, then it will have zero value, because why would I trade something for it when it is infinite and I can get some basically for free on my own.  Look up the history of Zimbabwe's currency for a good example of what happens in hyper-inflation.

The dificulty of bitcoin to mine makes it harder to get and people want it because they can trade it for things of real value.  Look at the tons of altcoins that are basically worth nothing because the only thing you can do with them is trade for bitcoins, and at that point you might as well just have mined bitcoins.

Yes but currencies to do rise in value, and if a coin that was worthless some time ago gains value, you could be sitting on a gold mine. I heard some kid bought 400 bitcoin when it was low and forgot about it, later sold it for $60,000.

That's a better gain than most investments these days.

You're not understanding. A currency that is not scarce will not rise in value, simply because it is not scarce. Difficulty makes coins scarce.

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October 10, 2013, 04:16:36 AM
 #29

You apparently don't understand currency very well.  If there is an infinite supply of currency, then it will have zero value, because why would I trade something for it when it is infinite and I can get some basically for free on my own.  Look up the history of Zimbabwe's currency for a good example of what happens in hyper-inflation.

The dificulty of bitcoin to mine makes it harder to get and people want it because they can trade it for things of real value.  Look at the tons of altcoins that are basically worth nothing because the only thing you can do with them is trade for bitcoins, and at that point you might as well just have mined bitcoins.

Yes but currencies to do rise in value, and if a coin that was worthless some time ago gains value, you could be sitting on a gold mine. I heard some kid bought 400 bitcoin when it was low and forgot about it, later sold it for $60,000.

That's a better gain than most investments these days.

You're not understanding. A currency that is not scarce will not rise in value, simply because it is not scarce. Difficulty makes coins scarce.
If that were the case why isn't the price of Bitcoin rising exponentially as the difficulty rate?

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markm
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October 10, 2013, 04:18:15 AM
 #30

Because so many coins are being blown on ASICs whose manufacturers or payment processors are dumping them cheap for fiat, maybe?

The crazy low price of bitcoins is a huge buying opportunity, buying bitcoins and holding them a year or few will likely be massively more profitable than buying ASICs.

The smart money is probably laughing at wannabe miners and snapping up all these insanely cheap coins...

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October 10, 2013, 04:34:53 AM
 #31

Because so many coins are being blown on ASICs whose manufacturers or payment processors are dumping them cheap for fiat, maybe?

This is a vicious cycle then. That people buy mining equipment that never can pay for itself because the bitcoins they are using become scarcer, and being used to buy the equipment, and are being converted back into fiat money.

The only winners are the manufacturers of ASIC hardware who make the money on the backend.

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Wilhelm
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October 10, 2013, 04:46:05 AM
 #32

If mining doesn't get harder and mining hardware gets better your setting up inflation.
The only thing saving this coin would be the max capacity. At that point it is only obtainable through trading before that it is worth nothing. Since there is an endless supply of it it is worth nothing.

Your idea is like printing your own dollars and expecting someone to build you a house for it LOL!!!

Call it WorthlessCoin would be a good joke of a coin Smiley

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October 10, 2013, 04:51:17 AM
 #33

zimbabwecoin?

The problem with the Zimbabwe dollar is the country lacked production to support its currency.

One reason Bitcoin has gained in value is because people are producing equipment for sale. But the current flaw is that manufacturers must sell the bitcoin in order to purchase materials to produce the equipment.

On the bright side as more businesses adopt bitcoin and the ease of use in everyday life rises, this will continue to assist in Bitcoin's increase in value.

However as I have stated earlier the flaws of the increased difficulty means that people will have to buy faster and faster equipment just to make a few coins.

This is why I say the bitcoin model is flawed. Bitcoin causes deflation in mining equipment. (bad for investment) Your mining equipment becomes worthless as the difficulty level increases. We have seen this time and time again when first CPUs were used, then Video Cards, then FPGA's and now even ASICs.  

If an authority were to control the money supply like the federal reserve it could moderate the inflation, as well as the deflation.

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October 10, 2013, 04:57:34 AM
 #34

If mining doesn't get harder and mining hardware gets better your setting up inflation.
The only thing saving this coin would be the max capacity. At that point it is only obtainable through trading before that it is worth nothing. Since there is an endless supply of it it is worth nothing.

Your idea is like printing your own dollars and expecting someone to build you a house for it LOL!!!

Call it WorthlessCoin would be a good joke of a coin Smiley

Again simply printing money without production makes it worthless. But if an economy of goods and services appears with the currency, that is what creates value.

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markm
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October 10, 2013, 05:00:48 AM
 #35

Once all the people who are masochistic enough to build mining businesses have the most efficient mining hardware available and have put it in the places on Earth that have the cheapest electricity, upgrades of mining gear will mostly happen when a new smaller type of chip becomes possible or a new cheaper way of generating or gathering (from wind, sun, whatever) power becomes available.

The big mistake right now is all kinds of amateurs trying to jump into mining because they still see it is some kind of goldrush where one guy with a shovel or a swishing pan can dig up or swish from river-muck tiny amounts of gold, instead of as something that takes a huge amount of very expensive industrial equipment to do.

Remember that mining is a "race to the bottom" industry, who-ever can do it cheapest gets to do it and anyone who cannot do it as cheap is not going to have any room for any profit. That is intentional.

So just forget about mining unless you are a huge multinational corporation looking to put datacentres wherever power is cheapest, as it is a losers game, you might just as well go into sewing or something, maybe, if you are in a place where cost of living is dirt cheap so that you can labour cheaper than other people located in places where labour is dirt cheap. It is a similar mechanics. If you want to make money in business you need to figure out what you can do cheaper than anyone else on the planet and do that, or do some puny local thing like a pub or barbershop that caters to a strictly local set of people - and even then you'd better be the cheapest and/or best in that little area else again you'll find you just don't have room to profit at it...

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Wilhelm
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October 10, 2013, 05:07:18 AM
 #36

If mining doesn't get harder and mining hardware gets better your setting up inflation.
The only thing saving this coin would be the max capacity. At that point it is only obtainable through trading before that it is worth nothing. Since there is an endless supply of it it is worth nothing.

Your idea is like printing your own dollars and expecting someone to build you a house for it LOL!!!

Call it WorthlessCoin would be a good joke of a coin Smiley

Again simply printing money without production makes it worthless. But if an economy of goods and services appears with the currency, that is what creates value.

Who would offer a service or goods for a coin you can just as easily obtain yourself?

This coin is like saying that a grain of sand is now a currency and we all live in th desert. Who would want to accept this for goods and services.

A currency needs a backing of work. That is why air is free and diamonds are not.

Bitcoin is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get !!
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October 10, 2013, 05:12:01 AM
 #37

But hey if you like the unlimited coins idea just go ahead and open businesses that accept any and all of the altcoins that are still being launched almost every day.

That way people get variety, lots and lots of colours of sand, new sand, different sand, grains of different sizes and shapes, much more interesting, variety is the spice of life...

Oh and go ahead and mine them too if you like, there is never any shortage of coins to mine, if you are tired of the ones already out there are plenty of new ones constantly being launched, pick the coins of the day and have fun mining them all!

If you are right that providing services makes a currency valuable, then go ahead and provide services for every coin, they will all become valuable, everyone will love you for it, and you will be rich having mined lots and lots of them by always mining whichever has the lowest difficulty instead of the so called highest "profitability" since you know that the real profit will happen from all the services you are going to provide so you can afford to stockpile all the coins that people think are not profitable since really the reason they are not profitable is that you have not yet seen fit to open services for them! You will presumably open services for the coins that were "the least profitable" since those will be the ones you were able to mine the most of easiest! So people will be totally fooled, running after the pathetic tiny "profits" shown on the profit sites instead of the lowest dfficulty coins that are considered the most worthless which are the ones that will skyrocket since those will be the ones you will make valuable by opening services for them!

Awesome plan! Good luck with it!

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Caper_Barry
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October 10, 2013, 05:45:43 AM
 #38

The problem with Bitcoin, as I see it, is the difficulty factor increasing. I have spent a sizable investment in mining equipment, been burnt by butteryfly labs, and still haven't received anything form them yet, etc.
I started with Radeon 7970 cards 4 in each computer, and bought 4 computers thats 16 cards at 500 bucks, do the math. I had problems with blowing circuits and resetting breakers.
Then when I could get my hands on USB block erupters (Asic) I bought as many as I could afford (120), The price dropped tremendously after buying a bunch, and boy trying to keep all of them running and  in good shape is a full time job.
working with them I saw my profits increase, only to steadilly decrease as the difficulty increases.
I bought ASICMiner Blades (10) so now I'm in the 130+ GH/s realm, but now I'm getting about the same amount of coin per day as when I had with the video cards.
I've spent too much money on the hardware only to be getting nowhere.

I propose a new crypto currency based on the SHA256 that never increases in difficulty, there are no limits to the number of coins you can mine, that as long as you have hardware mining, you will get coins. The reason I have chosen Sha256 is because ASIC mining hardware can only mine it. When bitcoin shuts down people will need to mine a currency that wont shut down because they don't want to waste their investment.

So if anyone else has any ideas what would be a perfect coin, or join in the discussion please respond below.

I understand your frustration but without rising difficulty in proportion to increased mining activity, the currency would be worthless. If you are unhappy with your immediate returns, keep in mind that they may someday be worth more as an investment.
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October 10, 2013, 10:34:08 AM
 #39

The problem with Bitcoin, as I see it, is the difficulty factor increasing. I have spent a sizable investment in mining equipment, been burnt by butteryfly labs, and still haven't received anything form them yet, etc.
I started with Radeon 7970 cards 4 in each computer, and bought 4 computers thats 16 cards at 500 bucks, do the math. I had problems with blowing circuits and resetting breakers.
Then when I could get my hands on USB block erupters (Asic) I bought as many as I could afford (120), The price dropped tremendously after buying a bunch, and boy trying to keep all of them running and  in good shape is a full time job.
working with them I saw my profits increase, only to steadilly decrease as the difficulty increases.
I bought ASICMiner Blades (10) so now I'm in the 130+ GH/s realm, but now I'm getting about the same amount of coin per day as when I had with the video cards.
I've spent too much money on the hardware only to be getting nowhere.

I propose a new crypto currency based on the SHA256 that never increases in difficulty, there are no limits to the number of coins you can mine, that as long as you have hardware mining, you will get coins. The reason I have chosen Sha256 is because ASIC mining hardware can only mine it. When bitcoin shuts down people will need to mine a currency that wont shut down because they don't want to waste their investment.

So if anyone else has any ideas what would be a perfect coin, or join in the discussion please respond below.

Sounds good but the people in IT will benefit the most, they will be the one printing "money" the fastest.

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November 29, 2013, 06:10:56 PM
 #40

Not to be rude, but if you couldn't calculate how to make money on BTC and made poor decisions, how can we expect you to make good decisions when running this new coin?
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