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Author Topic: bullish news ?  (Read 1299 times)
600watt
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October 11, 2013, 10:33:20 AM
 #1

purchases with bitcoin are cleared of extra vat in germany. extra vat does not apply to btc.  Smiley

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Bislang war die umsatzsteuerliche Behandlung von Bitcoins umstritten. Nun schafft das Finanzministerium im Online-Handel Klarheit. Experten sehen digitale Währungen jetzt vor dem großen Durchbruch.

"until present the vat status of bitcoin was not clear. now the ministry of finance brings clarity to online trade. experts see digital currencies on the brink of a major breakthrough"

http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article120823372/Zahlungen-mit-Bitcoins-sind-umsatzsteuerfrei.html

(note: the "welt" is a very conservative newspaper)

edit: extra



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Erdogan
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October 11, 2013, 11:44:53 AM
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purchases with bitcoin are cleared of vat in germany. vat does not apply to btc.  Smiley

Quote
Bislang war die umsatzsteuerliche Behandlung von Bitcoins umstritten. Nun schafft das Finanzministerium im Online-Handel Klarheit. Experten sehen digitale Währungen jetzt vor dem großen Durchbruch.

"until present the vat status of bitcoin was not clear. now the ministry of finance brings clarity to online trade. experts see digital currencies on the brink of a major breakthrough"

http://www.welt.de/finanzen/article120823372/Zahlungen-mit-Bitcoins-sind-umsatzsteuerfrei.html

(note: the "welt" is a very conservative newspaper)



This must be wrong. The idea with VAT is that it is applied as broadly as possible, and also on each step in the production chain. (It is a good tax if you ever need one, except it should be 2% rather than 25%).

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October 11, 2013, 11:55:58 AM
 #3

Just for clarification:

That does not mean that sales via BTC are exempt from VAT.
Just the additional service of exchange is exempt.

For the sold product, VAT applies as usual and has to be paid in EUR.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
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October 11, 2013, 01:18:43 PM
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which is good news after all because at last in germany governments are not planning to fight bitcoin. For now.

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October 11, 2013, 01:25:39 PM
 #5

Misleading as usual, what that means is using Bitcoin as a payment service doesn't generate additional taxes vs. using Euro.

But I'm pretty sure the zealots will soon tout "If you use Bitcoin you don't have to pay taxes!!"  Roll Eyes

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 11, 2013, 01:40:41 PM
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Misleading as usual, what that means is using Bitcoin as a payment service doesn't generate additional taxes vs. using Euro.

But I'm pretty sure the zealots will soon tout "If you use Bitcoin you don't have to pay taxes!!"  Roll Eyes

i expected your usual: "this is nothing" post sooner than #5

slowing down, eh ? Wink
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October 11, 2013, 01:45:10 PM
 #7

Well I am right, aren't I?

You gonna correct the false claims in OP after several people pointed the error to you already?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 11, 2013, 01:52:25 PM
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The pendant of Bitcoins can look forward to another success . Anyone who uses the digital money as means of payment , it must pay no sales tax in Germany . This important legal clarification entails a current response of the Federal Ministry of Finance to a parliamentary question that has provided the FDP politician Frank Schaeffler .

So far, the VAT treatment of Bitcoins was controversial in Germany . The response of the Federal Ministry of Finance is the " world" exclusive. " The mere payment of compensation is not a supply of goods or services within the meaning of paragraph 1, paragraph 1 Sales Tax Act ," reads the letter from the Ministry of Finance.

" The Bitcoin can now easily be used for e -commerce. Turnover tax law barriers no longer exist ," Schaffler comments on the clarification of the facts. Bitcoins are the Euro and any other currency is now equivalent to sales tax . "This is really fantastic for all online retailers and Bitcoin friends . "

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October 11, 2013, 01:54:01 PM
 #9

In Spain we don't have an official position that I know of but it is arguable that you buying something with BTC frees you from paying VAT, since you are effectively bartering and the coins already paid their VAT when they were mined (supposedly).

Effectively, this is what Germany has made official in their jurisdiction.
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October 11, 2013, 02:04:31 PM
 #10

"Die bloße Entgeltentrichtung ist keine Lieferung oder sonstige Leistung im Sinne des Paragraf 1 Absatz 1 Umsatzsteuergesetz"

"The payment processing itself is no good or other service according to article 1 section 1 Umsatzsteuergesetz"

That means essentially you don't have to pay VAT on the transaction fees, or generated Bitcoins but you of course have to pay VAT for the good or service you are offering.
Oh and Adam, please don't paste any auto-translated texts.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 11, 2013, 02:10:55 PM
 #11

germany is strong
and they love us.


bullish news?

I think so!

ElectricMucus
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October 11, 2013, 02:12:51 PM
 #12

Then learn German dammit.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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October 11, 2013, 02:22:47 PM
 #13

Sell sell sell!

Wait, sorry, might have got that backwards.

          WTF!     Don't Click Here              
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600watt
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October 11, 2013, 07:39:49 PM
 #14

Well I am right, aren't I?

You gonna correct the false claims in OP after several people pointed the error to you already?

i was referring to those fud-shmuckers that kept saying that there will be vat on btc equivalent to vat on silver. (no vat on gold). there were people claiming that there is vat on every btc transaction, which is of course, nonsense.  i don´t think anyone believed purchasing goods with btc will make it 19% cheaper since the vat on the goods is magically lifted because of the use of btc.

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October 11, 2013, 08:10:22 PM
 #15

anyway thanks for not spreading false rumors, perhaps there is some hope left after all Smiley

i don´t think anyone believed purchasing goods with btc will make it 19% cheaper since the vat on the goods is magically lifted because of the use of btc.


but there you go...
In Spain we don't have an official position that I know of but it is arguable that you buying something with BTC frees you from paying VAT, since you are effectively bartering and the coins already paid their VAT when they were mined (supposedly).

Effectively, this is what Germany has made official in their jurisdiction.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
Pruden
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October 11, 2013, 10:27:42 PM
 #16

Well, I was going by Adam's auto-translation.

Still, Electric, your assertion that no VAT is paid on mining but it is on transactions is absurd, since value is created precisely when coins are mined ant not in any other step.
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October 11, 2013, 10:33:26 PM
 #17

Still, Electric, your assertion that no VAT is paid on mining but it is on transactions is absurd, since value is created precisely when coins are mined ant not in any other step.
The statement means that you don't pay any VAT for "buying" coins. However, when you buy goods and pay them with BTC, you still have to pay the VAT for the goods, as usual.

For the Americans: in Germany (as typically in the rest of Europe) the VAT is always included in the price displayed in a shop.
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