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Author Topic: Satoshibones is a disaster  (Read 156 times)
Noitev
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March 11, 2018, 03:09:52 PM
 #1

I've been using this site since Satoshi-dice switched hands and it was a suitable replacement for a while. However, due to bitcoins previously high transaction fees, they changed it to an off chain site. I decided to depsoit ~$23 in btc to try to get the coins to get a $25 gift card. Firstly, the transaction didn't show up. I shot them an email and they quickly responded and apologized and said they would look into it. Soon after, they messaged me back and said the problem was fixed and I was credited. I didn't play on the site until today, but I played and got enough to get was I was looking for. I clicked withdraw and it looked like nothing happened. I pressed it again and this time an error box came up. I checked on their site and apparently it processed the withdrawal and I guess it sends it all back to the receiving address. I was expecting something asking how much to withdraw and to put an address in, but whatever. I checked my wallet and there was no incoming transaction. I went to their site and the withdrawal Tx ID was blank. I messaged them again. they promptly responded and apologized again and sent the transaction. I went to my wallet and saw it, but it was half what I requested. I asked in the email why that was and they said that the rest was a transaction fee and to use bitcoincash instead next time. Surprised, I checked the transaction and sure enough it had a fee per byte over 200 SAT, which is 10 times higher than it needed to be.

Needless to say, this ordeal has been very frustrating and I would highly suggest players avoid satoshibones, at least for the time being...
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March 11, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
 #2

Not only satoshibones, almost all bitcoin sites are nuts now day with fees. I had bad experience with sites like nitrogensports and localbitcoins.

In nitro, had to pay 0.001 for each withdrawal, that's just too much ($8), and they try to fix it but leave 0.0005 as fee for withdraw. The fun fact is they are blocking all withdrawals now and making their security area review the account before withdraw, i don know how long that will take but while that happen they have my money stuck.

In localbitcoins is worst, because they charge deposit fees  Undecided i understand the withdraw fees, but the deposit ones are non sense, just a theft... So, if you have to pay 0.001 for depo and 0.001 for withdraw, this site charges close to $18 just to move the money.

Satoshibones are right with the recommendation about bitcoin cash, looks like the cheap way to move coins now days because bitcoin is just doomed with this sites fees.

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March 11, 2018, 04:35:39 PM
 #3

[....]

Needless to say, this ordeal has been very frustrating and I would highly suggest players avoid satoshibones, at least for the time being...

Thanks for the heads up! it seems they want to people to use bitcoin cash?

[....]

Satoshibones are right with the recommendation about bitcoin cash, looks like the cheap way to move coins now days because bitcoin is just doomed with this sites fees.
No they're wrong. bitcoin fee is cheap these days(0.0000003 BTC/byte[1]), high fee is the fault of the services that you're using, they are still stuck on old fee. either you ask them to reduce fees or find a new service that has lower fees. recently two exchanges(binance and kraken) that i use have halved their fees from 0.001 BTC to 0.0005 BTC, why can't other service do the same?

[1] https://bitcoinfees.earn.com
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March 11, 2018, 07:31:59 PM
 #4

[....]

Needless to say, this ordeal has been very frustrating and I would highly suggest players avoid satoshibones, at least for the time being...

Thanks for the heads up! it seems they want to people to use bitcoin cash?

[....]

Satoshibones are right with the recommendation about bitcoin cash, looks like the cheap way to move coins now days because bitcoin is just doomed with this sites fees.
No they're wrong. bitcoin fee is cheap these days(0.0000003 BTC/byte[1]), high fee is the fault of the services that you're using, they are still stuck on old fee. either you ask them to reduce fees or find a new service that has lower fees. recently two exchanges(binance and kraken) that i use have halved their fees from 0.001 BTC to 0.0005 BTC, why can't other service do the same?

[1] https://bitcoinfees.earn.com

almost all bitcoin sites are charging fees higher than the median current fee
Primedice was charging 90k for withdrawals,only recently changed that figure to 40k
Bitsler charging 60,40 or 20k,user can choose,Bitvest charging 40k etc. etc.
while the average fee for a regular 256 bytes tx should be around 4-5k at most,even lower than that to get included in the next block
but they also were paying extra when the fees were outrageously high,adding the difference from their pockets
when you gamble or bet,find what are the withdrawal fees and the minimal withdrawal sum
if you are depositing for the first time,sending ,say,200.000 and hen finding out that even if you win 100k
you have to pay 100k to withdraw,or even worse-you cannot withdraw under 400k... bad surprise,so research before you play

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March 11, 2018, 09:56:07 PM
 #5

Not only satoshibones, almost all bitcoin sites are nuts now day with fees. I had bad experience with sites like nitrogensports and localbitcoins.

You might want to checkout bustadice/bustabit -- both popular sites and one of the few sites that actually handles bitcoin payments properly, and extremely cheaply. (Even allowing you to trade off speed for price if that's your thing). I'm actually currently using bustabit as my day-to-day wallet, the system is that good  Grin
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March 12, 2018, 12:55:08 AM
 #6

Not only satoshibones, almost all bitcoin sites are nuts now day with fees. I had bad experience with sites like nitrogensports and localbitcoins.

You might want to checkout bustadice/bustabit -- both popular sites and one of the few sites that actually handles bitcoin payments properly, and extremely cheaply. (Even allowing you to trade off speed for price if that's your thing). I'm actually currently using bustabit as my day-to-day wallet, the system is that good  Grin


tbh, the wallet withdraws are amazing at bustabit, it's like 8 bits to withdraw and send a transaction that confirms in like 10-30 minutes  Grin

If you want to become rich, just stop being poor duh.
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March 12, 2018, 01:53:27 AM
 #7


but they also were paying extra when the fees were outrageously high,adding the difference from their pockets


This is not the right answer for taking high fees now when transaction fees are very less. No one was asked them to pay the transaction fee when fees were high but they did it because they wanted gamblers to choose their site for less transaction fee. But that doesn't mean that they should charge more now when fees are very less.
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March 12, 2018, 05:37:52 AM
 #8

Not only satoshibones, almost all bitcoin sites are nuts now day with fees. I had bad experience with sites like nitrogensports and localbitcoins.

You might want to checkout bustadice/bustabit -- both popular sites and one of the few sites that actually handles bitcoin payments properly, and extremely cheaply. (Even allowing you to trade off speed for price if that's your thing). I'm actually currently using bustabit as my day-to-day wallet, the system is that good  Grin


Isn't that your site? lol

Don't get me wrong I LOVE bustabit, but I was trying to make a small return quick and wanted to see how their new site worked...
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March 12, 2018, 05:52:21 AM
 #9

I got this interesting response...

Fees are actually not able to be predicted accurately.   You can look at data from the past and make a guess, but you have no way to know what the supply/demand of block space will be after you've broadcast your transaction.   There is no actual mechanism within Bitcoin to ascertain what the fee guaranteed to be mined will be.   We can use data such as provided in that link to dynamically set fees - but we will always come up short because as demand changes the fee will never be perfect, and we will receive complaints (as we did in the past before changing the fee level) that our fee was too low.  We can't win with this because Bitcoin was not designed to accommodate variable fees.

Bitcoin was not designed to have fees escalate, because it was not designed with a blocksize limit.     Unfortunately, the project was hijacked by people who do not want on-chain Bitcoin transactions to be the future of peer to peer money.   Using censorship and propaganda, they have succeeded in promoting the idea that Bitcoin is not Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash, but rather "Digital Gold".   As such, fees escalated and while I resisted raising them on our Bitcoin transactions, ultimately we had no choice but to raise fees.  Fees continued to escalate until it was no longer possible to accept on-chain bets using our original system, and eventually became totally unworkable.   We had to retire the Bitcoin on-chain game, which is now only playable with BCH, LTC, and DOGE.

Since then, Bitcoin Cash has arisen as the standard bearer for the Bitcoin designed by Satoshi and described as a cash system in the original whitepaper.

Those who are loyal to the regime which has cooped and changed the Bitcoin system to be a settlement layer insist that high fees are a healthy state, and that BTC is digital gold.   So, for our off-chain game, for now we are leaving BTC in place as a deposit method, however we will now treat this as digital gold as well.   Rather than chase the fees around, we will leave them at the current level.    As argued by the regime controlling BTC, Bitcoin is not for small amounts of money to be transaction.

So, again if you would like to play with a low-fee network that is reliable, I recommend Bitcoin Cash.     LTC and DOGE also have low fees, though DOGE is not actively developed, and LTC has aligned itself politically with the core regime and could ultimately suffer the same fate in terms of fee level should it not choose to evolve.

We will likely add some other coins in the near-ish future, likely XMR and ZEC at first.

I'm sorry our fee level didn't meet your expectations, but this is a fundamental problem with BTC as a settlement layer, and our site's handling of it can never make everyone happy because it is a broken system.

Best regards,


Bitzillions Team
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March 12, 2018, 12:00:17 PM
 #10


but they also were paying extra when the fees were outrageously high,adding the difference from their pockets


This is not the right answer for taking high fees now when transaction fees are very less. No one was asked them to pay the transaction fee when fees were high but they did it because they wanted gamblers to choose their site for less transaction fee. But that doesn't mean that they should charge more now when fees are very less.

it is not,of course,the right answer
for some admins it takes ages to adapt to  changes,some are very responsive
like yolodice or bustabit-they do change their withdrawal fees to be more adequate
yolodice can serve as a good example in this matter,think they have the lowest batch fee in the industry,used to be 15k
not sure how much nowadays since I don't have enough to check,the regular,instant fee is only 20k-not bad either
bitlser has several options to choose from and I like this approach the most
if I'm in no hurry I pick the minimal fee and it goes through just as fast nowadays,if I need my coins fast I pick the highest possible fee etc.
cryptogames have been adjusting their fees as well,to be fair,but they have always been among the highest fee charging sites as high as 100k out of 200k minimal withdrawal

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March 13, 2018, 11:55:58 AM
 #11

I do not find that it is really hard to think that fee is really matter, I am not big gambler but I think to have 0.001 or even lower(in this case I will use the highest possible fee)extract from your 0.01btc or 0.1 btc I think it is still reasonable to do. Because I do not see that it is really high compare to what you get from the profit, let say you won 0.01 btc and paid 0.001 btc as their fee you still have 0.009 btc to get so where is the point that fee is high? I do not get it why people complaining about their fee compare to what they won. 1 btc profit and 0.01 btc profit have the same fee too

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March 16, 2018, 01:43:40 AM
 #12

Need warn about big fees.

Do you use bitcoin only?

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March 16, 2018, 04:42:35 AM
 #13

I don't completely disagree with Bitzillions that they can't set the fees so low a sudden change in the atmosphere would make it horrible for customers who require speedy confirmations but that was honestly too high of a fee they charged considering. They probably can't predict the fees exactly but chose enough should do just fine and that wasn't close.

While we're complaining about fees we should look at how exchanges charge us. Most exchanges charge ridiculous fees for various currencies while actually paying a fraction of that in the actual transaction.

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March 17, 2018, 10:58:30 AM
 #14

I don't completely disagree with Bitzillions that they can't set the fees so low a sudden change in the atmosphere would make it horrible for customers who require speedy confirmations but that was honestly too high of a fee they charged considering. They probably can't predict the fees exactly but chose enough should do just fine and that wasn't close.

While we're complaining about fees we should look at how exchanges charge us. Most exchanges charge ridiculous fees for various currencies while actually paying a fraction of that in the actual transaction.

exchanges make big money,they are modern day verison of banks-cash out of the thin air
I wish all of the gambling sites and exchanges allowed users to have a choice of transaction fees
nowadays even 2-3 satohi/byte transactions are going through without any problem at all,so paying 50k+ to withdraw your money is a rip off
and ideally,pundits should avoid sites that do not care about their customers by overcharging them
will you go to a market where they charge you 2$ for a plastic bag or choose a different one?

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