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Author Topic: What happens to funds sent to invalid payment address?  (Read 3639 times)
bithobo
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December 22, 2011, 04:45:40 PM
 #21

The system will just create/print more?

Won't "the system" then own  1/3rd of all money? Man, that sounds even worse then losing a third of all bitcoin Shocked

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BurtW
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December 22, 2011, 04:48:57 PM
 #22

I meant that if you destroyed 1/3 of all fiat currency the economic/banking system would just create more fiat currency to meet the demand.  With BTC it is not possible since there is a finite number of coins that can be created.

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DeathAndTaxes
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December 22, 2011, 04:54:26 PM
 #23

I meant that if you destroyed 1/3 of all fiat currency the economic/banking system would just create more fiat currency to meet the demand.  With BTC it is not possible since there is a finite number of coins that can be created.

Well not technically.  Most (all?) national banking systems are based on fractional reserve. It is the demand for DEBT which drives the multiplier and thus money supply (the amount of currency - physical coinage isn't really relevent).    It is possible that demand for debt and demand for money to decouple.   If/when that happens the value of the currency would simply rise.  It would rise against commodities (price of gold falling vs USD but not against EUR for example) and it would rise against other currencies.

Now the central bank MAY decide that this deflation is undesirable and cut interest rates to boost demand for debt but depending on macro economic conditions that may not actually result in increased debt and thus increased money supply.  For example right now interest rates are below 0% (in real terms) and demand for new borrowing is very low.



bithobo
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December 22, 2011, 06:55:28 PM
 #24

With BTC it is not possible since there is a finite number of coins that can be created.

We're still safe for a while. The smallest denomination is 0.000 000 01 BTC (one satoshi). That means, each bitcoin can be worth a billion smaller units

If it really comes to mass deletion, we still have the technology to make another currency (even billions of currencies), so I don't think there should be problems Smiley

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DeathAndTaxes
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December 22, 2011, 07:04:37 PM
 #25

With BTC it is not possible since there is a finite number of coins that can be created.

We're still safe for a while. The smallest denomination is 0.000 000 01 BTC (one satoshi). That means, each bitcoin can be worth a billion smaller units
That limit can also be extended via consensus.  Still even without extension a significant portion of the global economy could transact on a single Bitcoin.

The fear of mass coin destruction, or finite supply are unfounded.
cheat_2_win
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December 22, 2011, 07:21:07 PM
 #26

Along similar lines, what happens if I send some bitcoin to a valid address but without the transaction fee and the transaction hasn't been included in any of the blocks so far? Is there any mechanism to undo the transaction?
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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December 22, 2011, 07:22:56 PM
 #27

Along similar lines, what happens if I send some bitcoin to a valid address but without the transaction fee and the transaction hasn't been included in any of the blocks so far? Is there any mechanism to undo the transaction?

No.  Eventually it will be included in a block.  The protocol supports versioning to replace a transaction w/ a newer version but that hasn't been implemented in any client yet.
altuin
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December 24, 2011, 06:48:15 AM
 #28

It should run a net-check to make sure the adress exists before actually sending the coin.
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December 24, 2011, 06:55:05 AM
 #29

It should run a net-check to make sure the adress exists before actually sending the coin.
The regular client runs a check to make sure that the address entered is a valid bitcoin address, but it's not possible for a client to know if a valid address does not exist.  New addresses are created all of the time, and someone has to send bitcoins to one before it could enter into the blockchain.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 24, 2011, 06:58:01 AM
 #30

Hypothetical question: If there are 21 million bitcoins and multiple users send 7 million bitcoins to nonactive(bad addresses) wouldnt this drive up the price of the other 14 million coins since a third of the entire currency is out of "circulation?"

The short answer is, all else remaining the same, yes.

Of course, all else does not remain the same, so a little longer answer is, probably.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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December 24, 2011, 07:03:26 PM
 #31

It should run a net-check to make sure the adress exists before actually sending the coin.

The odds of entering a non-existent but still valid address are about 1 in 4 billion.  That is a good enough check.  The network has no idea if an address exists or not.
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March 24, 2014, 04:01:13 PM
 #32

This was an interesting read, so I guess I'm the 1 in a million chance guy.
I sent some btc from BTCe to Crypto Rush...
Well the address must of been valid for the btc was sent.. but never received.
Here is a ss of the transfer in the block chain with the BTCe transaction withdrawal.
Also, you can see the the BTCe was has not been redeemed. Just sitting there.
I have conatacted both exchanges.
BTCe cant help, bitcoins have left.

Crypto Rush claims the address was never a Crypto Rush address. (which could be true on the fact they have gone through wallet upgrades and this could of been a false address I copied and pasted)

Note: always copy and paste, and I did for this transaction.
http://i.imgur.com/jo3JOJu.png?1
Lamber
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March 24, 2014, 04:14:00 PM
 #33

If you send coins to invalid address you have lost them. Interesting, that it is even possible to send them to invalid address, why is that ?
softron
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March 24, 2014, 04:20:36 PM
 #34

Not possible to send

DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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March 24, 2014, 04:23:36 PM
 #35

If you send coins to invalid address you have lost them. Interesting, that it is even possible to send them to invalid address, why is that ?

You can't send coins to an invalid address.  You can send coins to a WRONG but valid address.  The network has no way of knowing you don't mean to send coins to valid address A when you create a tx sending coins to valid address A.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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March 24, 2014, 04:27:10 PM
 #36

Crypto Rush claims the address was never a Crypto Rush address. (which could be true on the fact they have gone through wallet upgrades and this could of been a false address I copied and pasted)

There is no such thing as a "false address".  If they provided you that address then it was a valid address.  Period.  If later through incompetence or malfesence they "lost" the private key for that address it doesn't change the fact that they provided you that valid address.  

The network did exactly what you (and indirectly CryptoRush) asked it to.  It sent coins to the valid address provided.   Your issue is with CryptoRush (not BTCe or the bitcoin network).

It would be no different than CryptoRush providing you a PO BOX and telling you to mail some cash.  You mail the cash to the PO Box they provided, and you have delivery confirmation that the cash was delivered. When you ask about it they say "oh sorry that isn't the valid CryptoRush PO Box" and then blaming the US mail for properly delivering the cash exactly where they told you to.
BurtW
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March 24, 2014, 11:27:37 PM
 #37

Is there any way you can prove that CryptoRush gave you that specific address?

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
TsaktuO
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March 27, 2014, 05:39:19 PM
 #38

If I show screenshot of the address in the CryptoRush website, what good would that do. Already confirm that they are liars and cheaters?
I would just like my BTC returned.
cryptzilla
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March 28, 2014, 04:26:17 AM
 #39

Interesting thread, thanks!

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vnvizow
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March 28, 2014, 05:13:27 AM
 #40

Yep, it get's sent back to the sender if the address is invalid but you still lose the transaction fees. But, if the address is registered and you simply typed it wrong then your coins are lost if the person doesn't return them.  Grin

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