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Author Topic: Avalon ribbon cable question  (Read 2320 times)
smoothrunnings
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October 18, 2013, 01:07:57 PM
 #1

Has anyone ever thought of or has tried to use a 80pin (IDE Ultra 133) cable as the a ribbon cable on the Avalon to see if it improves anything?

I need to replace one of my ribbon cables on my B2 as one of the clips broke, not only do I recall the 80pin cables being better than the 40pin but their connectors/clips are stronger too.

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October 18, 2013, 04:56:02 PM
 #2

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

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October 18, 2013, 08:01:12 PM
 #3

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.
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October 19, 2013, 01:01:36 AM
 #4

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ide-ribbon.jpg

IDE cables have a missing pin.
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October 19, 2013, 02:42:46 AM
 #5

So how do we go about replacing the IDE cables?

Is there any hints on this ngzhang?


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Kartaiv
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October 19, 2013, 02:44:48 AM
 #6

So how do we go about replacing the IDE cables?

Is there any hints on this ngzhang?

You can just buy a raw 40 wire ribbon cable and crimp ends on it. Alternatively, I can make one for you but I'm sure it would be cheaper if you did it yourself.
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October 19, 2013, 03:49:48 AM
 #7

So how do we go about replacing the IDE cables?

Is there any hints on this ngzhang?

You can just buy a raw 40 wire ribbon cable and crimp ends on it. Alternatively, I can make one for you but I'm sure it would be cheaper if you did it yourself.
You don't know which wires they are using or if they are just straight end to end connections. Without knowing the pin layout you might connect things wrong.


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Kartaiv
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October 19, 2013, 03:28:05 PM
 #8

So how do we go about replacing the IDE cables?

Is there any hints on this ngzhang?

You can just buy a raw 40 wire ribbon cable and crimp ends on it. Alternatively, I can make one for you but I'm sure it would be cheaper if you did it yourself.
You don't know which wires they are using or if they are just straight end to end connections. Without knowing the pin layout you might connect things wrong.

Yes, I do. All the schematics are public. It is straight through. I have made cables already for people that work 100%.
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October 19, 2013, 03:33:13 PM
 #9

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Is this really you?  If it is, what the fuck happened to Avalon trade-ins?
smoothrunnings
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October 19, 2013, 03:41:01 PM
 #10

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ide-ribbon.jpg

IDE cables have a missing pin.

Pin 20 isn't missing it's just covered because it's not used by the IDE controller, plus they added another security feature to make sure you don't plug the cable in the wrong way. In my case I can get straight through 80pin cables that don't have pin 20 blocked.

Smiley
AdamKD
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October 19, 2013, 06:58:48 PM
 #11

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ide-ribbon.jpg

IDE cables have a missing pin.

Pin 20 isn't missing it's just covered because it's not used by the IDE controller, plus they added another security feature to make sure you don't plug the cable in the wrong way. In my case I can get straight through 80pin cables that don't have pin 20 blocked.

Smiley


If it's covered it's missing because there's a pin hole missing (therefor missing a pin on the other side) where one should exist ... 80 pin cables are wrong as the IDC connectors used by Avalon are 40 pin ...
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October 19, 2013, 07:26:31 PM
 #12

So how do we go about replacing the IDE cables?

Is there any hints on this ngzhang?

You can just buy a raw 40 wire ribbon cable and crimp ends on it. Alternatively, I can make one for you but I'm sure it would be cheaper if you did it yourself.
You don't know which wires they are using or if they are just straight end to end connections. Without knowing the pin layout you might connect things wrong.

Yes, I do. All the schematics are public. It is straight through. I have made cables already for people that work 100%.
How much do they cost?


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smart-ticket protocol for events
live product with market traction!
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smoothrunnings
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October 19, 2013, 08:58:43 PM
 #13

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ide-ribbon.jpg

IDE cables have a missing pin.

Pin 20 isn't missing it's just covered because it's not used by the IDE controller, plus they added another security feature to make sure you don't plug the cable in the wrong way. In my case I can get straight through 80pin cables that don't have pin 20 blocked.

Smiley


If it's covered it's missing because there's a pin hole missing (therefor missing a pin on the other side) where one should exist ... 80 pin cables are wrong as the IDC connectors used by Avalon are 40 pin ...

Did you even read what I said? (shrug)
AdamKD
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October 19, 2013, 09:50:33 PM
 #14

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ide-ribbon.jpg

IDE cables have a missing pin.

Pin 20 isn't missing it's just covered because it's not used by the IDE controller, plus they added another security feature to make sure you don't plug the cable in the wrong way. In my case I can get straight through 80pin cables that don't have pin 20 blocked.

Smiley


If it's covered it's missing because there's a pin hole missing (therefor missing a pin on the other side) where one should exist ... 80 pin cables are wrong as the IDC connectors used by Avalon are 40 pin ...

Did you even read what I said? (shrug)

I read what you said and shrugged.  You said a pin was covered.  ---1) It's a hole that's missing (more specifically, covered).  2) The pin is missing (literally, it's missing). ---
What you failed to understand is if the hole is covered then the pin is missing.  There's nothing covering that pin that doesn't exist.

What you said is the pin is covered.  There, actually, is no pin that is covered.  There's a pin hole that's covered and a pin that is missing on the opposite side for IDE cables and their associated connectors and headers versus the correct IDC cables and their associated connectors and headers.  Translation:  Kartaiv was right ...
smoothrunnings
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October 19, 2013, 10:36:54 PM
 #15

IDE cables have some interconnect, so i think this replacement will not work but certainly you can have a try.

Some interconnect? What do you mean by this?

They are 40/80 ping across the two connections with no twisting.

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/ide-ribbon.jpg

IDE cables have a missing pin.

Pin 20 isn't missing it's just covered because it's not used by the IDE controller, plus they added another security feature to make sure you don't plug the cable in the wrong way. In my case I can get straight through 80pin cables that don't have pin 20 blocked.

Smiley


If it's covered it's missing because there's a pin hole missing (therefor missing a pin on the other side) where one should exist ... 80 pin cables are wrong as the IDC connectors used by Avalon are 40 pin ...

Did you even read what I said? (shrug)

I read what you said and shrugged.  You said a pin was covered.  ---1) It's a hole that's missing (more specifically, covered).  2) The pin is missing (literally, it's missing). ---
What you failed to understand is if the hole is covered then the pin is missing.  There's nothing covering that pin that doesn't exist.

What you said is the pin is covered.  There, actually, is no pin that is covered.  There's a pin hole that's covered and a pin that is missing on the opposite side for IDE cables and their associated connectors and headers versus the correct IDC cables and their associated connectors and headers.  Translation:  Kartaiv was right ...

Depending on the manufacture some cables are likely missing the pin, while others aren't and what the manufacture does it put a piece of plastic into the hole to cover it. How I know this is because in my 30+ years of working in IT I have managed to destroy a few IDE Ultra 133 cables in my time which allowed me to take a look at the connector from a manufacturing level, 95% of the time the pin was there and the cable was punched down. Yes you can show all the pictures you want and draw conclusions based on your assumptions but until you do the actual leg work you are still only assuming the actual pin behind the hole that is blocked isn't there. Smiley

And I never said the pin was missing, I just said it was covered, there is a big difference between missing and covered.

Update:

This gets back to what I was saying about pin 20 being covered, see the blue connector and the black one not missing a single pin? Only the beige connector which is used for the secondary hard drive is missing a pin, the cables I am looking at buying are ultra 133 Black to Blue no beige in between and pin 20 isn't blocked on either end of the connectors from the outside.

Ultra 133 cables purpose was to cut down on the cross talk, which is something possibly the Avalon could benefit from but I will have to test it. Smiley

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October 19, 2013, 11:42:21 PM
 #16


Depending on the manufacture some cables are likely missing the pin, while others aren't and what the manufacture does it put a piece of plastic into the hole to cover it. How I know this is because in my 30+ years of working in IT I have managed to destroy a few IDE Ultra 133 cables in my time which allowed me to take a look at the connector from a manufacturing level, 95% of the time the pin was there and the cable was punched down. Yes you can show all the pictures you want and draw conclusions based on your assumptions but until you do the actual leg work you are still only assuming the actual pin behind the hole that is blocked isn't there. Smiley

IDE standard recites:  

5.3 I/O connector
The I/O connector is a 40-pin connector as shown in figure 4, with pin
assignments as shown in table 4.  The connector should be keyed to prevent the
possibility of installing it upside down.  A key is provided by the removal
of pin 20.
 The corresponding pin on the cable connector should be plugged.

(see http://www.t13.org/documents/UploadedDocuments/project/d0791r4c-ATA-1.pdf)


And I never said the pin was missing, I just said it was covered, there is a big difference between missing and covered.

Update:

This gets back to what I was saying about pin 20 being covered, see the blue connector and the black one not missing a single pin? Only the beige connector which is used for the secondary hard drive is missing a pin, the cables I am looking at buying are ultra 133 Black to Blue no beige in between and pin 20 isn't blocked on either end of the connectors from the outside.

Ultra 133 cables purpose was to cut down on the cross talk, which is something possibly the Avalon could benefit from but I will have to test it. Smiley

[/img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/PATA-Connectors-exposed.png[/img]

Pin should be missing and covered.  There's 2 places the pin should be missing and in 1 place it should be covered (pin hole) for 'conductor pin 20'.  I know you never said it was missing.  I'm saying it is missing and you corrected someone in suggestion that it isn't missing when it is missing.

Then again cable implementation is dependent on manufacturer ... to me it looks like both of us were right and wrong (while not being right and wrong) with probably a better understanding.  Apparently the 'standard' doesn't distinguish between a 'pin hole being covered' and a 'pin being covered'.  Then again it writes 'pin on the cable connector' so it's somewhat ambiguous as the cable connector doesn't have pins but does have pin holes.
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